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Cornholi

Is impale spec still the best threat spec?

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This is mainly a question for warriors who have already raided since the server has come back. With the rage fixes, having a really fast weapon and spamming heroic strikes is no longer possible and overall spamming your abilites is not possible either.

So, knowing that impale only affects abilites (not white attacks), is impale spec still the best for threat? Or has a variation of other talents worked better in your experience.

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I will detail comment this when I get to work in an hour.  Short answer for now, not until you are 18+ % crit unbuffed and world buffs, mongoos and elemental stone.

Edited by Undertanker

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Like stated above, 18+ unbuffed crit and planning on using world buffs each raid + mongoos and elemental stone is what will now justify impale spec.

IMO the best overall MT spec is now:

8/5/38

Improved Sunder Armor is a must.  Improved Taunt is also really nice since you don't have super threat, and is always helpful in 20 mans.  With some of the AQ Mechanics, it makes a few bosses easier as well.   Imp shield wall is just a bonus.

Some may still go for an Impale spec that still includes Imp Sunder and taunt, however you will miss out on 10 DEF and imp shield wall.  Meaning while I can be using Band of Accuria and Don Julio's for 3 hit on my ring slots with my preferred spec, you have to use 2x +def rings to accommodate for the def loss.   I"d take +3 hit +1 crit and +16 agil over 5% average increased damage to my shield slam any day.

17/3/31

 

Edited by Undertanker

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Wouldn't it just be better to just drop imp taunt from your second spec and put it into anticipation, making the defense drop not as steep (from 10 to 6) and not having to modify your gear setup?

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Who said anything about Def cap?   All I am saying is you have more options for itemization on a per boss instance with taking the 10 def in anticipation.

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http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#Luhx0hbZZEbzoeMzVo   As Undertanker said this spec really only works well if you are going deep on consumes and have a lot of threat gear such as Accuria, Onslaught Girdle, Lionheart with zg enchant, r8 legs and so on. You can also just have world buffs and be doing incredible threat with that build. This build requires your healers to be fairly strong, and you as the tank need to know when to go full mitigation (Broodlord, Chrom, and Nef are the main ones).

So essentially this build is only viable if you are geared to the teeth, consume heavily, and have a guild with top dps that require this crazy stuff to keep threat.

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Misinformation (exaggeration) in this thread. You don't need 18%+ crit unbuffed for Impale spec. You're fine to go Impale once you start using more crit consumes, world buffs and some TPS pieces like Savage Glad/Blackhand's/Lionheart/Onslaught/Accuria/etc. 

As for talents; once you have BWL gear you can drop Anticipation 5/5, try 3/5 if you want to experiment limits. Improved Sunder is NOT a necessity. It is literally a spam spell now in between Rev/Shield Slams/Shield Blocks CDs, which is budgeted. Your fury tryhards will help you stack 5 in the start while you use expensive skills. I recommend pooling max rage before boss fights for high initial aggro. I also dropped imp. Shield Wall along time ago because it is an emergency CD, not something you should rely on. I almost never need it, I just use it for the sake of it.

Most important thing about Impale spec is to choose wisely how much threat gear you can getaway with depending on your healers/DPS threat/duration of fights. I personally have 4 stages of threat gear in a 17/3/31 Impale build. Full cheese, half cheese, quarter cheese and no cheese (full mitigation). Depending on encounters and world buffs. 

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Here is my logic:

Non Impale

15% crit (5/5 Cruelty):

Shield Slam - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 375
Crit Hit: 750
Average Hit: 487.5  /  81.25 DPS

Revenge - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 63
Crit Hit: 126
Average Hit: 81.9  / 13.65 DPS

Heroic Strike every ???? - 
Normal Hit: 350
Crit HIt: 700
Average Hit: 455

With Impale

13% crit (3/5 Cruelty):

Shield Slam - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 375
Crit Hit: 900
Average Hit: 492  /  82 DPS

Revenge - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 63
Crit Hit: 151.2
Average Hit: 82.65  / 13.77 DPS

Heroic Strike every ???? - 
Normal Hit: 350
Crit HIt: 840
Average Hit: 459.2
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non Impale

20% crit (5/5 Cruelty):

Shield Slam - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 375
Crit Hit: 750
Average Hit: 525  /  87.5 DPS

Revenge - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 63
Crit Hit: 126
Average Hit: 88.2  / 14.7 DPS

Heroic Strike every ???? - 
Normal Hit: 350
Crit HIt: 700
Average Hit: 490

With Impale

18% crit (3/5 Cruelty):

Shield Slam - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 375
Crit Hit: 900
Average Hit: 555  /  92.5 DPS

Revenge - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 63
Crit Hit: 151.2
Average Hit: 93.24  / 15.54 DPS

Heroic Strike every ???? - 
Normal Hit: 350
Crit HIt: 840
Average Hit: 501.2
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Non Impale

25% crit (5/5 Cruelty):

Shield Slam - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 375
Crit Hit: 750
Average Hit: 562.5  /  93.75 DPS

Revenge - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 63
Crit Hit: 126
Average Hit: 94.5  / 15.75 DPS

Heroic Strike every ???? - 
Normal Hit: 350
Crit HIt: 700
Average Hit: 525

With Impale

23% crit (3/5 Cruelty):

Shield Slam - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 375
Crit Hit: 900
Average Hit: 582  /  97 DPS

Revenge - every 6 seconds
Normal Hit: 63
Crit Hit: 151.2
Average Hit: 97.77  / 16.29 DPS

Heroic Strike every ???? - 
Normal Hit: 350
Crit HIt: 840
Average Hit: 543.2
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The strength of Impale came from being about to SPAM heroic strike with a 1.3 Dagger which is impossible other than Val.   While doing a comparison of threat of Impale vs 8/5/38, always have to remember you have 2% less crit using impale spec.    It's such a small difference in raw DPS / TPS while sacrificing tankability.   Sunder isn't about just getting 5 stacks early and stopping, it is your 3rd best threat per rage ability.  Heroic strike is used at the cost forgoing shield block a lot of times, potentially being counter productive to your revenge on cooldown and leaving you open to crushings/crits.

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