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ironskillet2

pure avoidance vs +defense (for crit immune)

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Hi, So I'm just trying to obtain a deeper understanding of a bosses hit table on you and how pure avoidance (+dodge% / +parry%) vs +defense works.

I understand that +140 defense makes you crit immune,

         is this because you have pushed crit off the table at 140?

         is this because the bosses crit chance has simply been reduced to 0, regardless of your avoidance

         or is it both?

 

And what level of avoidance would I have to have, to simply push a bosses chance to crit me off the table, if I had zero +defense.

Like on the priority list, if the bosses chance to crit me was always 5.6 because I never got +defense, How much total avoidance from dodge/parry/block would i need to collect in order to push crit off the table, without +defense

Edited by ironskillet2

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With shield block up, you will be immune to crits and crushing blows as they are both pushed off. If you don't have it up, you will have a 15% chance to take a crushing blow and a 5.6% - (+def)*0.04% chance to be crit. Some mechanics like nefarian's warrior class call make it impossible to keep up shield block and you will need 440 def.

The rule of thumb I go by for fights that don't disable shield block is to have at least around 420 def and that will generally keep you safe from crits and crushing blows.

Edited by zmandude24

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30 minutes ago, ironskillet2 said:

so if i wanted to be crit immune without shield block and without +defense, I would need essentially 80% pure avoidance?

That's not exactly an option as it's not even possible to get that much avoidance if you wanted to.

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You should not be thinking of "pure avoidance" vs. +defense in the way you are. They aren't separate. Each point of defense increases your dodge, parry, block and enemy miss chance by 0.04% AND reduces the chance for enemies to crit you by 0.04%.

See this excellent post for more details: https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/24163-prot-warrior-guide-by-armilus-v2/

 

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6 hours ago, ironskillet2 said:

so if i wanted to be crit immune without shield block and without +defense, I would need essentially 80% pure avoidance?

Avoidance is also kinda shit because you cant dodge a spell, or fire damage, or nature damage or.... you get the idea.

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7 hours ago, Storfan said:

Avoidance is also kinda shit because you cant dodge a spell, or fire damage, or nature damage or.... you get the idea.

Im mainly asking for theory crafting sakes, not because i actually intend to get 80% natural avoidance

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2 minutes ago, ironskillet2 said:

Im mainly asking for theory crafting sakes, not because i actually intend to get 80% natural avoidance

I havnt done much theorycrafting in some time so I dont have any numbers readily available in my head. Armilus guide probably got the answers you seek:


https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/24163-prot-warrior-guide-by-armilus-v2/

 

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4 hours ago, Timergu said:

I thought block couldnt push crit of the attack table.

That misconception is there because it's not always a reliable way of pushing crits off the attack table as bosses can attack more than twice every 5 seconds, which means the boss will hit you at least some when shield block isn't up. I've only tanked half of MC and Ony as MT on nost so I don't know what bosses if any have an attack speed that fast. Garr had an attack speed quite a bit faster than 2.5, but the adds would blow up even when banished after Garr got low enough, so my guild would kill the adds first which caused his attack speed to go way up to something like 1.2-1.5. This made it required for me to get defense cap to not get crit and even then, it was impossible to avoid all the crushing blows from that boss. Based on the guides I read on BwL, there are 3 bosses you will want def cap for, which are Broodlord, Chromaggus, and Nefarian. Broodlord's mortal strike hits for 8k on a crit (not sure if shield block can stop that crit, but I'm not taking that risk when I get there), Chormaggus stuns for a few seconds or so where you can't use shield block and your avoidance aside from miss chance won't do anything when stunned, and Nefarian's Warrior class call forces all warriors into berserker stance, where you can't use shield block.

In short, until BwL you don't need to worry about defense cap assuming Garr's adds don't have that bug.

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