Let's finish this discussion once and for all.

[mytchi3 1]

According to all these people yes they would pass even on teebuz sword. And these people are also your scrubs needing on BOP items that are "upgrade" for them but not suited for their class.

[mytchi3 1]

10 minutes ago, J.AllenBrack said:

The difference is between being entitled to raw gold for themselves and Needing an item someone will legitimately use. What gives them the right to sell it on the AH and keep all the gold for themselves, If they split the profits 5 ways then there's no problem. Wanting gold and needing simply because they can is entitlement to something they have no right over, Needing an Item you will use is literally how to loot system in WoW is meant to work, Your BoP item drops off a boss, you need.

If someone who can't use said item Needs because they can vendor/disenchant, that's entitlement and greed. Get your head out of you're ass, your argument that "gold is interchangeable currency as as soon as the person who got BOE epic sold can buy his own BOE epic he can use in this case rogue can buy Krol Blade or devilsaur set" means that people are free to Need anything and everything they want simply because shards and BoP items can become gold, we're does you logic actually work? No where and to no one. So shut the fuck up and if you're gonna respond respond with an actual coherent argument. 

Dont twist the argument to something its not about. BOP items value is not its DE or vendor value therefore needing on bop to sell is ninjaing loot. We are talking here only and only about boe rare and epics. 

So imagine that stocade shoulders drops rogue wins them. Then later same run krol drops and tank wins it. They whisper each other to exchange and that is exactly what boe epics are. If krol dropped for warrior he would sell it in Ah and buy stocade which is the same as above. Fair and square roll for everyone there to get his own epic exchanged for that.

Please read no gold was mentioned its a barter trade essentially which is unique for boe epics (not greens and most rares since nobody needs those for upgrade, therefore people greed and if its and upgrade for someone he needs and you see him equip that green).

Edited February 28, 2017 by mytchi3

[J.AllenBrack 1]

Nice hypothetical situation that will never happen. "Dont twist the argument to something its not about".... yea re-read your comment numbnuts

[Rapteg 0]

3 часа назад, J.AllenBrack сказал:

so I assumed

That's your problem. You either specify loot rules, or need on all boe. 

[J.AllenBrack 1]

And no, BoP BoE, doesnt really matter according to your argument " those BOE epics either since gold is interchangeable currency" gold is gold right? does it matter what form its in? BoE BoP vendor gold? Nexus Crystal? 

[mytchi3 1]

2 minutes ago, J.AllenBrack said:

Nice hypothetical situation that will never happen. "Dont twist the argument to something its not about".... yea re-read your comment numbnuts

Reply to all points and it does an did happen

[J.AllenBrack 1]

2 minutes ago, Rapteg said:

That's your problem. You either specify loot rules, or need on all boe. 

Yea you're actually absolutely right

[J.AllenBrack 1]

I'm running dungeons ML from now on, nothing you can do about greedy fucks on this server.

[J.AllenBrack 1]

There was a post where stockade pauldrons dropped in a lbrs run, and people let the tank Need on it because he would use it. Everyone passed but a rogue, who needed and won the shoulders. That was unanimously considered to be Ninjaing in that thread, in this case its just 4 people trying to ninja. Which is actually worse.

[J.AllenBrack 1]

.

Edited February 28, 2017 by J.AllenBrack

[Rapteg 0]

Только что, J.AllenBrack сказал:

I'm running dungeons ML from now on, nothing you can do about greedy fucks on this server.

Good luck getting groups with that attitude

4 минуты назад, mytchi3 сказал:

Dont twist the argument to something its not about. BOP items value is not its DE or vendor value therefore needing on bop to sell is ninjaing loot. We are talking here only and only about boe rare and epics. 

 

It's like, seriously? People blame people rolling on BoE items for being ninja, while advocating rolling or simply taking away BoP items via masterloot (which is definition of ninjaing)

[J.AllenBrack 1]

People need on BoP's all the time, sometimes they already have the item and claim they forgot they had it, or simply unequip it when it drops, I'ves seen this happen lots of times, according to you this is normal behavior. I dont need luck, I'm a tank I can just make my own groups.

[J.AllenBrack 1]

 

[Rapteg 0]

3 минуты назад, J.AllenBrack сказал:

People need on BoP's all the time, sometimes they already have the item and claim they forgot they had it, or simply unequip it when it drops, I'ves seen this happen lots of times, according to you this is normal behavior. I dont need luck, I'm a tank I can just make my own groups.

That's just bullshit and people should be called out for doing that. But it's probably case of random level 30 blues you are talking about and not shit like, dunno, Gyth's Skull. I've never seen a single person needing on BoP item when he already had one

Edited February 28, 2017 by Rapteg

[Oakenlix 79]

@J.AllenBrack

It's funny because you don't realize you sound like an entitled little twat yourself, claiming that everyone should just pass a universally valuable item to you only because it's a gear upgrade to you, ignoring the fact that it could just as well become a gear upgrade for other group members.

1 hour ago, J.AllenBrack said:

The difference is between being entitled to raw gold for themselves and Needing an item someone will legitimately use.

Trading the BoE item for gold is a legitimate use too.

1 hour ago, J.AllenBrack said:

What gives them the right to sell it on the AH and keep all the gold for themselves, If they split the profits 5 ways then there's no problem.

Because they won the roll maybe? That's what gives them the right to do whatever they wish with this item.

1 hour ago, J.AllenBrack said:

Wanting gold and needing simply because they can is entitlement to something they have no right over, Needing an Item you will use is literally how to loot system in WoW is meant to work, Your BoP item drops off a boss, you need.

We're not talking about BoPs, and no, it's not an entitlement, it's a fair roll where you win or lose. Please stop assuming that the only use for an item is to wear it, it's not true.

1 hour ago, J.AllenBrack said:

If someone who can't use said item Needs because they can vendor/disenchant, that's entitlement and greed. Get your head out of you're ass, your argument that "gold is interchangeable currency as as soon as the person who got BOE epic sold can buy his own BOE epic he can use in this case rogue can buy Krol Blade or devilsaur set" means that people are free to Need anything and everything they want simply because shards and BoP items can become gold, we're does you logic actually work? No where and to no one. So shut the fuck up and if you're gonna respond respond with an actual coherent argument. 

No, please get some logic classes before drawing such conclusions. 

If an item is easily convertable into gold and vice versa, which BoEs are, it's worth is it's equivalent in gold. And everyone in the group has the same right to this gold, no matter in form of which item it dropped. This doesn't apply to BoPs, obviously, because you can't buy one. And the gold you get from vendoring/disenchanting such an item is far lower that it's actual worth, so rolling on a BoP that you can't wear is ninjaing.

Anyway, seeing as you copy and paste your butthurt story in every thread, you're probably just very very mad about losing a roll, so I'm not sure there's a point in arguing with you. 

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by Oakenlix

[Justme 9]

20 hours ago, Oakenlix said:

Tbh I wanted to see a poll like that ever since this post:

Would be interesting to see poll results in a day or two, but so far it seems pretty ironic considering the amount of "Majority opinion" arguments there were posted.

 

It's funny that you say that because you said this was a stupid question in a different thread.

[Oakenlix 79]

Just now, Justme said:

It's funny that you say that because you said this was a stupid question in a different thread.

What question? Quote please?

[Roax 3]

3 hours ago, Oakenlix said:

@J.AllenBrack

It's funny because you don't realize you sound like an entitled little twat yourself, claiming that everyone should just pass a universally valuable item to you only because it's a gear upgrade to you, ignoring the fact that it could just as well become a gear upgrade for other group members.

You are omnipresent in all threads according this topic and once stated, that all you want is, that players, who need on BoEs shouldn't be called ninjas, greedy or be a target for other insults.

So you tried to convince people, that needing is fine, if everybody does it. Some others and me stated in other threads, that they/I see where you are coming from and you might have point, although they/I still prefer greeding in BoEs. So besides the usual insulting on both sides (you included), there have been people, who were willing to accept, that needing on BoEs isn't necessarily ninjaing or greedy.

And after all you're still implying, that those, who only need, if the item is an direct upgrade, are greedy, ignoring the fact, that the same players would greed on a BoE, which won't be useable or an upgrade for them (as J. AllenBrack would presumable do). 

That said, if you are serious about achieving more acceptance for needing on BoEs and for those who do so, step down from your pedestal & at least admit, that being greedy has nothing to do with the preferred loot-rule whatsoever. It's solely a personal matter, which can't be proved in the forums. So it's an obsolete point in any loot-rule-discussion and shouldn't be used by either side.

@all: please stop suspecting and insulting, unless that's all you want.

As there won't be an agreement on using from now on only one of the rules, don't do pugs or do state the loot-rules in advance.

[Oakenlix 79]

1 minute ago, Roax said:

And after all you're still implying, that those, who only need, if the item is an direct upgrade, are greedy, ignoring the fact, that the same players would greed on a BoE, which won't be useable or an upgrade for them (as J. AllenBrack would presumable do). 

Not at all. I'm implying that this particular person feels entitled to get that particular item that he's talking about ignoring the others need for it. I didn't call him greedy, neither implied that someone is. I think you misunderstood what I said.

And yes, greed has nothing to do with prefered loot rules, not sure why you'd think I believe otherwise.

[Justme 9]

12 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

What question? Quote please?

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/35213-horde-mage-beerwizzard-ninjas-stockade-pauldrons/?page=17#comment-349745

On 27-2-2017 at 8:39 AM, Justme said:

Back to personal insulting again. ohwell.

Just ask yourself this: An item dropped. Are you gonna need or greed on it?

Edited February 28, 2017 by Justme

[Oakenlix 79]

Just now, Justme said:

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/35213-horde-mage-beerwizzard-ninjas-stockade-pauldrons/?page=17#comment-349745

Haha.

No, I'm sorry, but that question is still stupid, because you didn't specify anything: is it BoE or BoP, is it valuable, etc. I think you were just trying to avoid my very simple question I asked you before that: what difference does it make if a gear upgrade is direct or indirect and why should one has higher priority than the other?

The poll, by the way, it very clear and comprehensible, I'll give you that. So no, your question was stupid, this poll is not. it's not the same. 

[Rapteg 0]

2 часа назад, Roax сказал:

As there won't be an agreement on using from now on only one of the rules, don't do pugs or do state the loot-rules in advance.

Frankly, if you end up in a situation where literally everyone will equip their BoEs as an upgrade of some sort - there will be no BoEs to buy from AH. That's sad that community want to resort to getting some sort of an upgrade because of your chosen class over giving other players fair chance to also improve their character

[Roax 3]

2 hours ago, Oakenlix said:

Not at all. I'm implying that this particular person feels entitled to get that particular item that he's talking about ignoring the others need for it. I didn't call him greedy, neither implied that someone is. I think you misunderstood what I said.

And yes, greed has nothing to do with prefered loot rules, not sure why you'd think I believe otherwise.

Tbh I don't see much difference between calling someone greedy or calling him a entitled little twat, who ignores other persons need. Both implies selfish behaviour, which might lead to a misuse of looting in general.

So by calling out a particular person feeling entitled to a particular item without taking into account, how that person would act, if another BoE drops, which is not a direct upgrade, is an unfair way to discredit that particular person and especially his/her preferred loot-rule. 

As you know, I prefer greeding on BOEs, which are no direct upgrades to me.

So I could easily state, that all those, who need on BoEs to sell them hope, that the other group members only greed, because of the bigger chance in winning the roll. And I could add, that they would ignore /random 100-rolls of group-members, who greeded. I could also point out a particular person in one the "ninja"-threads. But that would only be non-factual presuming and not expedient to the discussion.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Roax

[Roax 3]

52 minutes ago, Rapteg said:

Frankly, if you end up in a situation where literally everyone will equip their BoEs as an upgrade of some sort - there will be no BoEs to buy from AH. That's sad that community want to resort to getting some sort of an upgrade because of your chosen class over giving other players fair chance to also improve their character

I don't agree, that there will be no BoEs to buy from AH. There might be way less, but that should be partly compensated by less demand, because people would loose less frequent useable items, which they otherwise would buy from the AH.

And your character can be improved by BoPs or by drops of useable BOEs. 

Last but not least, there is still some crafted gear to buy.

But again, there won't be a server- or elysium-wide agreement on one of the loot-rules. So state your rules in advance, adept to the group or don't pug.

 

Edit: sorry for double-post

Edited February 28, 2017 by Roax

[Oakenlix 79]

36 minutes ago, Roax said:

Tbh I don't see much difference between calling someone greedy or calling him a entitled little twat, who ignores other persons need. Both implies selfish behaviour, which might lead to a misuse of looting in general.

So by calling out a particular person feeling entitled to a particular item without taking into account, how that person would act, if another BoE drops, which is not a direct upgrade, is an unfair way to discredit that particular person and especially his/her preferred loot-rule. 

[[ I'm calling him out for acting like a entitled little twat because that's what he's doing in this thread. I'm not trying to characterize him as a person in general, so I don't have to take into account how he would act in other situations.

Same as if I call someone's post stupid, this doesn't imply that person is stupid. We all write stupid stuff sometimes. ]]

UPD: now that I gave it a little more thought, I guess you're right. From my perspective, someone who prefers the so-called "Need before Greed" system acts selfishly when his gear upgrade drops (expecting others to pass) and selfless with other items (passing on it himself).

And from his perspective, I act selfishly when other people's gear upgrade drops (by rolling on it), and selfless when it is my gear upgrade (by letting everyone roll for it).

So yeah, both parties have equal reasons to call or not to call another "entitled little twats". Well, that's what we're doing here anyway. :D