Is dps warrior valued in raids at the beginning?

[Bagger 0]

Hi folks! 

I played on Nostralius, and haven't really played on any other vanilla servers since it got shut down. 

After I've heard it is cooperating with Elysium, I think I'll be up for it once again. 

I would either go with a mage, or a dps warrior. (Off tanking if needed, or just to quickly grab Aggro on a squishy going wild). 

So I was just curious, if there even exist guilds who is embracing/welcoming fury warriors into their ranks here in this community, or do the rogues just have full dips on that role, and therefore warriors are just seen as a tank and nothing else, until you hit further progress?

[Maxvla 0]

DPS warriors are a bit slow to start, but are perfectly viable from the beginning.  PVP gear helps bolster 5 man drops, and of course the crafted and world drops (like Lionheart and /Cloudkeeper/Edgemasters) are a shortcut to doing good dps early.

You'll soon out dps mages on most fights except those with mass AOE.

[flowqz 34]

2 hours ago, Maxvla said:

DPS warriors are a bit slow to start, but are perfectly viable from the beginning.  PVP gear helps bolster 5 man drops, and of course the crafted and world drops (like Lionheart and /Cloudkeeper/Edgemasters) are a shortcut to doing good dps early.

You'll soon out dps mages on most fights except those with mass AOE.

you forgot ironfoe and felstriker.

[Lollies 0]

Get pre-bis,

You'll top from then on.

[Whiskyjack666 2]

hmmm not 100% accurate info. You will have the ability to top... however any pure dps class can top meters. A great deal of vanilla is based on the individual player and not gear... skill will always pwn gear in vnailla.

I played vanilla as a rogue and raids where typically (rogue/mage/warrior) for dps... warriors typically where 3-5 where rogues/mages held 1-3 spots a mix of some others depending on fights.  all the way up to KT...

PS.. play what you want man... fury warriors do a fine job and bring utility to raids... there one of the top dps classes in vanilla

 

 

[Vollfos 2]

easy to say 

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/Ranking.aspx?Bosses=00010203040506070809&realm=Ely&ClassLimit=All

 

thats the first 50 dps of the uploaded Raids on Raidstats for Elysium PvP (MC only)

 

Warrior are by far the highest dps Class on static fights, ye more movement (target switches, aoe at bosses or just dmg stops for melees) the dps drops and Rogues(ranged) will get closer.

 

finding a raid which hasnt enough dps warrior will be more difficult, because the good ones mostly has enough)

[Bagger 0]

Ok! I think I will take the route of the Warrior, and make my alt a mage. Ty!

[Bagger 0]

Actually my vanilla wet dream is to be raiding as dps paladin. I've seen that it is possible, even though it is harder in many aspects. Especially the stigma of Retardin. They might not be the top damage dealer (it can even be possible with the right gear and ofc skill), but it brings utilities as auras, cleansings, buffs, off heal, off tank into the mix as well, so if there exist a guild out there that would accept 1, that would be a vanilla dream coming true for me! 

And since Sulferus has to go to someone (and that's usually not the warriors), that someone could be a paladin!

I mean 1 dps paladin in a 40 man raid wouldn't hurt, would it ;) ?

[dingdong420blazeit 0]

Here's the thing with Ret Paladin: there's a stigma against them because they are not good. You provide worse utility than any other Paladin spec, and arguably the worst DPS in the game of any DPS spec. Some guilds will take one Ret Paladin, but consider that there's a lot of people who want to be the "one" Ret Paladin - and generally if you get accepted to raids, it'll be on the condition that you do more prep than even the main tank to ensure you aren't holding everyone back. That means chugging Major Mana Potions, bringing all of your appropriate elixirs/scrolls/food/Blasted Lands consumables (including spell damage consumables) and maintaining them, and having the absolute best gear you can equip.

So here's some questions you should be asking yourself:

1. Do you want to risk potentially not even being able to find a raid spot at all?
2. Do you want to deal with being denied dungeon spots due to being stigmatized?
3. Do you want to spend all that extra time and money on consumables just so you can reach the same damage as the worst Hunter in your raid?

Also keep in mind that Paladins get progressively worse for DPS throughout vanilla. Consider how Paladins scale: your DPS rotation consists of flat damage Judgements (same damage in Naxx as in MC) white auto attacks which you have very few ways to scale (no Death Wish, Blade Flurry, etc.), and 7 Seal of Command procs per minute (scales off the damage of your weapon). Compare this to a Rogue: Poisons (flat damage, doesn't scale), white auto attacks with a multitude of ways to scale (Slice and Dice, Blade Flurry), and literally dozens of yellow attacks per minute (Sinister Strike/Backstab) that deal a high percentage of weapon damage AND bonus damage on top of that. These can also be scaled with Adrenaline Rush. Consider all those factors, and you can see why Rogues/Warriors pull waaaayyyyyy ahead of Paladins as the server progresses.

[Bagger 0]

Oh for sure, I know what is against dps paladins, for sure. 

Honestly the extra preparation, and that I've to play my A+ game doesn't bothers me the slightest, because I love hard challenges, as that would be just more personal rewarding for me. The thing that would keep me from doing it, is that I would never get a shot to even begin with. And I think the hardest part is to overcome the stigma. I do have hopes that since it's a private server, people might be more open minded, but I don't know this community. 

I've seen ret paladins that got the opportunity that actually could reach being the top 5 dps on the raid. And that is pretty legit. 

So if there exist such a guild in this community that is ready to groom a ret paladin, that would give me a huge quality of gameplay.

[Bagger 0]

Watching Drakova & Esfund on YouTube and they make it work, and occasionally be the top damage dealer as a ret paladin, in fact ret paladins do more damage on Elysium than on other private servers like Kronos. 

I might go for that, sorry guys.

[Gnog 1]

Your expressed awareness of how bad a decision you're making does not diminish its badness. 

[Bagger 0]

37 minutes ago, Gnog said:

Your expressed awareness of how bad a decision you're making does not diminish its badness. 

But if it is proven viable and you can be top10 or top5 damagewise, then it doesn't matter how you get from A to B ?

If one get more personal reward for putting in extra effort and therefore improve one quality of gameplay, why should that bothers anyone else, if it's possible?
Granted if you're hopelessly at the buttom of the majority of the time, then it's not worth it. But if you can stay consistantly in top10, and even top sometimes, then it's all worth it in my book. 

[Ironsides 35]

47 minutes ago, Bagger said:

But if it is proven viable and you can be top10 or top5 damagewise, then it doesn't matter how you get from A to B ?

If one get more personal reward for putting in extra effort and therefore improve one quality of gameplay, why should that bothers anyone else, if it's possible?
Granted if you're hopelessly at the buttom of the majority of the time, then it's not worth it. But if you can stay consistantly in top10, and even top sometimes, then it's all worth it in my book. 

You can be number 1 dps every single fight, it isn't dependent on your terrible choice--it's dependent on everyone else in your guild sucking a fat one at dps.

[Bagger 0]

10 minutes ago, Ironsides said:

You can be number 1 dps every single fight, it isn't dependent on your terrible choice--it's dependent on everyone else in your guild sucking a fat one at dps.

But if progress is made, why does it matter then ? And if it can matter towards the end of raid and it works, then there shouldn't be any problem ?

[Ironsides 35]

37 minutes ago, Bagger said:

But if progress is made, why does it matter then ? And if it can matter towards the end of raid and it works, then there shouldn't be any problem ?

because I'd rather give your spot to someone who isn't a special snowflake.

[Bagger 0]

19 minutes ago, Ironsides said:

because I'd rather give your spot to someone who isn't a special snowflake.

It makes literally no sense ... it's just a video game that was made a decade ago. That you're butthurt over something works, which you can't comprehend because your narrow mind tells you something different that other people have taught you before. 

It's not about being a snowflake, it's about getting quality in your gameplay, and if a ret paladin can be in top10, then it's an absolutely rediculous statement. 

And one should think, that since it is a private server and the game is this old, there should be room to seek out the boundaries. 

[Vollfos 2]

Bagger if you wanna do it , then do it.

 do it, invest your time  and dont start in more then one threat , a controverse discussions , from a 13 y old game.

 

All your proof lay down 1 vid from 1 guy.

Did you even check the Guild he raided with ? Sanctum is a big guild and has 1 guild and 1 half pug raid every week.

And i researched ! I think you didnt.

First i looked the vid and saw it was not even half of players from Sanctum.

Then i locked his Profile to search when he got his Arcanite Reaper (4.5.)

Then i checked realmstats for logs from 4.5.- 4.11. ( all sanctum intern raids wasnt with Esfand) in no pug he was logged either . I mean it says nothing , because only 15-20% of all raids gets logged.

 

That Ret paladin you are mostly as proofen talk about, not even is a raider at all , and that raid he made a vid from , was the half pugraid you can see it because many raidmember of that vid are not in sanctum 

And at this raid they didnt cleared mc ! I talked ingame with one of our guildmember which pugged this raid because he had no time that week for our guildraid.

I played back in the days 13 years ago a ret paladin and had rank 13.

Later on i got askhandi, but in all of our raids i was mostly , dispeller , buffer and rezzer , and had to hold up light judgement. that was my job as ret.

 

If you find a raid which let you dps as ret , perfect . 

We personally has a full tank bear and a offtank feral in our raid aswell and we are happy about  them, too.

 

[ghilledhu 0]

Play what you want, but be prepared to deal with negative reactions from other players.  Deserved or not, retadins and dps warriors both have pretty strong stigmas.  It's hard to find a spot in PuG raids and 5mans, even if you're very good.

The key to your endeavor is making friends in-game and finding a guild that fits your playstyle.

Honestly, don't expect to find a spot in a high-end super-serial raiding guild.  However, you can find a more casual and open-minded guild to run with, provided that you're dedicated, do you homework, perform well, are likable, etc.  My guild in vanilla was not very good (we just did ZG and MC), but we had a guy who always played Retribution and was usually top or near top in damage.  If you're available, helpful, and perform well in your roll, you should be able to find a home.

Warrior's are probably a better class for dps, but they're also more likely to be expected to off-tank.

[Ironsides 35]

16 hours ago, Bagger said:

It makes literally no sense ... it's just a video game that was made a decade ago. That you're butthurt over something works, which you can't comprehend because your narrow mind tells you something different that other people have taught you before. 

It's not about being a snowflake, it's about getting quality in your gameplay, and if a ret paladin can be in top10, then it's an absolutely rediculous statement. 

And one should think, that since it is a private server and the game is this old, there should be room to seek out the boundaries. 

Do whatever the fuck you want to do, guy. I'm not going to continue debating a rando that either can't or won't understand that it is a lame spec.

Who is to say that your quality gameplay trumps other's quality? What if your 400-500 less dps is the difference between a wipe costing you world buffs and progression? How do you even quantify gameplay quality?

You asked initially if dps warriors are valued in raids. They are. Because they fit nicely into raid compositions because of their specific party wide buff and dps that is on par with optimal players. optimal. meaning players who are playing at the top of their game, squeezing out any small measure of "skill" out of the sand dollar nipple that is vanilla WoW (usually this means having bigwigs timers tuned properly). smite priests could be top 10 dps. This isn't indicative that they are sleeper OP horse cock swinging dps gods, just that the rest of your raid rode the short bus. retadins are not valued by raids worth any value.

reread my first sentence.

[flowqz 34]

i thought retpaladins can be somewhat good with nightfall. am i mistaken?

[Haestingas 30]

Rets contribute the most using nightfall this is true. The issue is that they have poor uptime compared to hunters and warriors.

[Maxvla 0]

That is not true. Nightfall procs on seal of righteousness and lifestealing, so every swing is three chances to proc. Libram of rapidity for haste, hand of justice for extra attacks. Paladin uptime is good.

I'd still rather not have one in my raid though, unless the guild were light on healing paladins.

[Bagger 0]

22 hours ago, Vollfos said:

Bagger if you wanna do it , then do it.

 do it, invest your time  and dont start in more then one threat , a controverse discussions , from a 13 y old game.

 

All your proof lay down 1 vid from 1 guy.

Did you even check the Guild he raided with ? Sanctum is a big guild and has 1 guild and 1 half pug raid every week.

And i researched ! I think you didnt.

First i looked the vid and saw it was not even half of players from Sanctum.

Then i locked his Profile to search when he got his Arcanite Reaper (4.5.)

Then i checked realmstats for logs from 4.5.- 4.11. ( all sanctum intern raids wasnt with Esfand) in no pug he was logged either . I mean it says nothing , because only 15-20% of all raids gets logged.

 

That Ret paladin you are mostly as proofen talk about, not even is a raider at all , and that raid he made a vid from , was the half pugraid you can see it because many raidmember of that vid are not in sanctum 

And at this raid they didnt cleared mc ! I talked ingame with one of our guildmember which pugged this raid because he had no time that week for our guildraid.

I played back in the days 13 years ago a ret paladin and had rank 13.

Later on i got askhandi, but in all of our raids i was mostly , dispeller , buffer and rezzer , and had to hold up light judgement. that was my job as ret.

 

If you find a raid which let you dps as ret , perfect . 

We personally has a full tank bear and a offtank feral in our raid aswell and we are happy about  them, too.

 

It's not one vid, it's also people in the past that could vouche for it, and in other guilds, where they're literally number 2. I rolled a warrior anyway. 

Played the game in 2006, and I mailed a paladin too, so I know how the drill is.

[Bagger 0]

12 hours ago, Ironsides said:

Do whatever the fuck you want to do, guy. I'm not going to continue debating a rando that either can't or won't understand that it is a lame spec.

Who is to say that your quality gameplay trumps other's quality? What if your 400-500 less dps is the difference between a wipe costing you world buffs and progression? How do you even quantify gameplay quality?

You asked initially if dps warriors are valued in raids. They are. Because they fit nicely into raid compositions because of their specific party wide buff and dps that is on par with optimal players. optimal. meaning players who are playing at the top of their game, squeezing out any small measure of "skill" out of the sand dollar nipple that is vanilla WoW (usually this means having bigwigs timers tuned properly). smite priests could be top 10 dps. This isn't indicative that they are sleeper OP horse cock swinging dps gods, just that the rest of your raid rode the short bus. retadins are not valued by raids worth any value.

reread my first sentence.

We'll find people with the same mindset as yours, surely the thing you wanna do is min/max everything, which is fine, but I'm not hardcore raiding anymore, I'm gonna have a smooth and loose approach to this. 

Even though the others do crap damage, it doesn't mean that they aren't doing progress. If you're on the same page with 40 others then there shouldn't be a problem to have 1 fucking retardin. 

However if you wanna go min/max way, yea sure then it may be retarded, and then it is lame, surely. 

Again this is a private server, so I think it is reasonable to test what you actually can do in the game.

and btw I rolled a warrior. And probably gonna do a retardin as an alt.

funny that being a retardin can get on your nerve 13 years after the game. Also funny that you mention that you don't want to debate and then proceeds, but there you go ^^