Update the pvp gear on Zeth/Ely with BWL patch

[Caber 4]

12 hours ago, TTL said:

Indeed, considering when you get rank 14 you unlock the full set of gear. Of course libtards need everything explained in great detail because they lack common sense.

>libtards

wat?

And no, you dont unlock "the full set of gear" with r14. It takes multiple weeks from r11 to r12, multiple weeks from r12-r13, and atleast 3 weeks from r13 to r14. Each of these steps gradually unlocks some gear to buy.

 

How is this different from having to raid a few times to get your loot? It's not really. I guess raiding relies on RNG a bit but that point works both ways. Technically a rogue can get every single item he needs out of BWL in a single raid, I'm pretty sure.

 

Here's a funfact.  A warrior can raid MC once and get t1 off every single boss, then a BRE off rag, and he's already better geared than what multiple months of rank grind can get you. MOLTEN CORE. ONCE.

[quasexort 4]

1 hour ago, QQsya said:

If they update T1 in 1.4/1.5 and don't update T2 in 1.6 then there won't even be a point in doing BWL because updated T1 is better in most cases than pre-update T2.  So if that's the plan then the whole timeline is even more nonsensical than I originally thought.

True, if they do update T1 then it wouldn't make sense to not buff T2 to it's final state.  Regardless though you raid BWL for the offset pieces more so than for T2.

[Gnog 1]

This proposal is equally selfish and foolish. To change the timeline for PvP upgrades would be both non-blizzlike and violate the timeline posted on the Elysium progression page. Those are two fundamental principles that were held out to new players coming to this server, and they are part of the framework of incentives we've all been working under for the life of the server to date. Moving the PvP item upgrades forward by, what, 8 months or a year, would completely upend the payoff framework for PvE and PvP on this server. It would unfairly and without notice give greater rewards to BG grinding, and for what?  So that you, OP, can have better gear sooner?  Join a damn raid guild and respec each week as necessary to PvP. That's what the change in respect costs allow you to do. And stop forum lawyering. Just wow.

[dodgerino 0]

How egoistical can one be. There's a plethora of reasons why PvP gear shouldn't be at his best possible state right now. Content is progressive, PvP gear was/is/should be progressive.

Get a grip on yourself mate, it's just silly

[dodgerino 0]

11 hours ago, Caber said:

>libtards

wat?

And no, you dont unlock "the full set of gear" with r14. It takes multiple weeks from r11 to r12, multiple weeks from r12-r13, and atleast 3 weeks from r13 to r14. Each of these steps gradually unlocks some gear to buy.

 

How is this different from having to raid a few times to get your loot? It's not really. I guess raiding relies on RNG a bit but that point works both ways. Technically a rogue can get every single item he needs out of BWL in a single raid, I'm pretty sure.

 

Here's a funfact.  A warrior can raid MC once and get t1 off every single boss, then a BRE off rag, and he's already better geared than what multiple months of rank grind can get you. MOLTEN CORE. ONCE.

What's your point? This is how gear in vanilla works. I don't give a flying fuck how you feel about that, you choose to play vanilla, you get the vanilla experience.

 

PvP gear is progressive, if you want your r14 gear to be on par with what t3 provides, wait until t3 is released. 

[dodgerino 0]

1 hour ago, Caber said:

Try following the conversation and maybe you wont have to embarass yourself with blanket statements that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand.

Conversation? I only see you spewing idiotic things out of your ass

[Caber 4]

6 minutes ago, dodgerino said:

Conversation? I only see you spewing idiotic things out of your ass

Ye, it's hard to follow a simple back and forth conversation if you're legally retarded, I guess. Seriously though quiet now, you're just shitposting because you're upset you don't understand the discussion. Make your own thread for that or something

[dodgerino 0]

1 minute ago, Caber said:

Ye, it's hard to follow a simple back and forth conversation if you're legally retarded, I guess

Legally retarded? You mean, being recognized by your community as a retard?

 

Looking at this thread, I've seen you being called out for your stupidity more than a handful. I guess you quality for official retard status

[doodoobrown 1]

9 hours ago, Gnog said:

This proposal is equally selfish and foolish. To change the timeline for PvP upgrades would be both non-blizzlike and violate the timeline posted on the Elysium progression page. Those are two fundamental principles that were held out to new players coming to this server, and they are part of the framework of incentives we've all been working under for the life of the server to date. Moving the PvP item upgrades forward by, what, 8 months or a year, would completely upend the payoff framework for PvE and PvP on this server. It would unfairly and without notice give greater rewards to BG grinding, and for what?  So that you, OP, can have better gear sooner?  Join a damn raid guild and respec each week as necessary to PvP. That's what the change in respect costs allow you to do. And stop forum lawyering. Just wow.

How many times have we addressed this very same argument? I'm guessing the better part of 5 or 6 times. The timeline is not blizzlike. At all. The PvE gear tier is being updated way before it was on retail, PvP reputation vendors are being added far sooner than they were on retail, we have cross faction auction houses in 1.3, battlemasters in 1.3, AB before AV, and 1.12.1 talents. This argument is not valid on the premise of not blizzlike being a reason to reject a change being made to the game. Also, stop the ad hominems, this thread is to benefit PvP as a whole by giving everyone incentive to queue, only people queueing right now are the people who love PvP and are willing to grind for trash gear.

Here's the 10th time we're linking this: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/edit

The biggest difference between the updated PvP gear and BWL BiS is 38 AP and 1.4% crit for the hunter set. For the most part the PvE BiS slightly outperforms the updated PvP gear. And to be absolutely clear: we do not expect this change to be made on 1.6 release. Waiting for progression in BWL to finish is a perfectly reasonable request.

[doodoobrown 1]

3 hours ago, dodgerino said:

PvP gear is progressive, if you want your r14 gear to be on par with what t3 provides, wait until t3 is released. 

11th time: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/edit

It's nowhere near as strong as t3 even in its fully updated state. In fact it's not even up to AQ40 standards. Also, r14 gear is being updated on BWL release regardless of this thread. Please, read previous posts before replying.

[dodgerino 0]

Just now, doodoobrown said:

11th time: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/edit

It's nowhere near as strong as t3 even in its fully updated state. In fact it's not even up to AQ40 standards. Also, r14 gear is being updated on BWL release regardless of this thread. Please, read previous posts before replying.

It isn't supposed to be and it never will

[doodoobrown 1]

4 minutes ago, dodgerino said:

It isn't supposed to be and it never will

That's exactly our point. We're not asking for it to be t3 quality, just upgraded so it's not completely eclipsed by BWL gear. Are you an Anathema player? If so, this doesn't really apply to you since you already have the upgraded PvP faction gear. On Ely/ZK the pre-update PvP sets are overall on par with pre-buff t1, so when t1 is updated and t2 is released the gear will be rendered absolutely useless.

[Gnog 1]

2 minutes ago, doodoobrown said:

That's exactly our point. We're not asking for it to be t3 quality, just upgraded so it's not completely eclipsed by BWL gear.

You're asking for a change in the gear progression order that has been advertised on the Elysium timeline page. It upsets the reasonable expectations that people have based their gameplay on. 

 

[dodgerino 0]

9 minutes ago, doodoobrown said:

That's exactly our point. We're not asking for it to be t3 quality, just upgraded so it's not completely eclipsed by BWL gear. Are you an Anathema player? If so, this doesn't really apply to you since you already have the upgraded PvP faction gear. On Ely/ZK the pre-update PvP sets are overall on par with pre-buff t1, so when t1 is updated and t2 is released the gear will be rendered absolutely useless.

You're a bunch of egoistical dudes . You have no point whatsoever besides your need to feel more important. There's nothing important about mindlessly grinding honor nor any kind of team work.

I know this for personal experience. The gear is what it is and what it should be, stop asking for unreasonable changes because you feel weaker than what you think you should be.

[doodoobrown 1]

2 minutes ago, Gnog said:

You're asking for a change in the gear progression order that has been advertised on the Elysium timeline page. It upsets the reasonable expectations that people have based their gameplay on. 

 

So waiting until Naxx to use gear that performs about as well at BWL gear is a reasonable expectation? Even on Nost most r13 mages and warlocks just used BWL gear in BGs because of the extra crit %. Also, this is less than 1% of the population we're discussing here, it's not going to affect gameplay as much as you make it out to be. The whole purpose of this thread is to make PvP worthwhile, pointing at the timeline doesn't really help people come up with solutions to existing problems.

[doodoobrown 1]

13 minutes ago, dodgerino said:

You're a bunch of egoistical dudes . You have no point whatsoever besides your need to feel more important. There's nothing important about mindlessly grinding honor nor any kind of team work.

I know this for personal experience. The gear is what it is and what it should be, stop asking for unreasonable changes because you feel weaker than what you think you should be.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd back to ad hominems.

12th time: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/edit

I don't feel that the pre-update set is weaker, it is. I know that the updated set is on par or weaker than BWL BiS, as far as PvE is concerned. It's all there in the document, just look it over. What personal experience did you have that makes it so gear that takes months to farm is topped by gear you can get in a few hours once or twice a week in BWL? Have I said anything unreasonable, has my math been off? You gotta be more specific.

[Gnog 1]

You can't get full BWL gear by playing a few hours once or twice a week. If you could, then you and the other PvP grinders would just spend a couple hours a week in BWL instead of embarking on this forum quest to upgrade your PvP gear. The PvE grind can take a lot of time, given the RNG and the number of people involved. 

[doodoobrown 1]

15 minutes ago, Gnog said:

You can't get full BWL gear by playing a few hours once or twice a week. If you could, then you and the other PvP grinders would just spend a couple hours a week in BWL instead of embarking on this forum quest to upgrade your PvP gear. The PvE grind can take a lot of time, given the RNG and the number of people involved. 

What? Who said anything about not doing BWL, I intend on doing it. The whole purpose of this thread is to make PvP more worthwhile, so the server doesn't fill up with raidloggers and every BG isn't the same coterie of tryhards grinding 24/7. Would be nice to have more PvP activity in general, but as it stands most people appear to be content with raidlogging.

[dodgerino 0]

44 minutes ago, doodoobrown said:

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd back to ad hominems.

12th time: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1s9CLO31HDTjs2qPAn2FILB1dulLm1kup3G5Ih-Wrorg/edit

I don't feel that the pre-update set is weaker, it is. I know that the updated set is on par or weaker than BWL BiS, as far as PvE is concerned. It's all there in the document, just look it over. What personal experience did you have that makes it so gear that takes months to farm is topped by gear you can get in a few hours once or twice a week in BWL? Have I said anything unreasonable, has my math been off? You gotta be more specific.

You can stop linking that, it only makes you look even more stupid. You employ ad hominems every single time you link that retarded url

[doodoobrown 1]

1 hour ago, dodgerino said:

You can stop linking that, it only makes you look even more stupid. You employ ad hominems every single time you link that retarded url

Wtf is your issue, do you just want to call each other names and talk about personal experience? I have facts, so I present them, where are yours?

[QQsya 4]

2 hours ago, dodgerino said:

You employ ad hominems every single time you link that retarded url

I don't think that word means what you think it means, so here:

Ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is now usually understood as a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.[2] from the first line of wikipedia

 

Now tell me, how does linking substantiated mathematical proof fit that definition?  And how does saying "lol ur dum u jus wnt gerea cuz u bad xD" not fit that definition?

[QQsya 4]

3 hours ago, Gnog said:

You can't get full BWL gear by playing a few hours once or twice a week. If you could, then you and the other PvP grinders would just spend a couple hours a week in BWL instead of embarking on this forum quest to upgrade your PvP gear. The PvE grind can take a lot of time, given the RNG and the number of people involved. 

You absolutely can get full BWL gear by doing BWL, which absolutely does take no more than a few hours a week outside initial progression.  And this may come as a shock to you but most of us plan on doing BWL too.  We just want people to log in for more than two hours a week once they've got a stock of consumables farmed up and nothing else to do.

If all I wanted was for my own gear to be updated, I'd just go play my mage on Anathema who already has the updated PvP gear.  I even mentioned that earlier in the thread, but I guess reading the whole thread before replying is too hard, otherwise we wouldn't be addressing the same asinine arguments over and over again.

[Jakira 22]

This thread has run its course, thank you for your thoughts, concerns, and information to back up your claims. We will look into all of this during the weekly core lead meeting.

 

Thank you, locking the thread.

Jakira