Is there a good overview of Paladins? For both PvE and PvP and specs?

[Habskilla 2]

My main 3 questions,

1) How do Rets fair in PvP? I never played Paladin till Cata and all that I remember about them is they get kited to hell. However I have a feeling it isn't so bad in Vanilla

2) Can they main tank / main heal?

3) How is their DPS compared to other classes? I know they are not the best but are they as low as Balance?

[killerduki 54]

@Esfand have a nice Videos about retri , @Theloras have nice Guides about retri .

Regarding Tanking , there is sticky Topic with Videos in this Paladin subsection , you can check that out.

More info you can get in Paladin Discord : https://www.reddit.com/r/ElysiumProject/comments/5fk6hc/class_channels_in_discord/

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Theloras 108]

lolret

[kingRat 1]

On 5/24/2017 at 9:04 PM, Habskilla said:

My main 3 questions,

1) How do Rets fair in PvP? I never played Paladin till Cata and all that I remember about them is they get kited to hell. However I have a feeling it isn't so bad in Vanilla

2) Can they main tank / main heal?

3) How is their DPS compared to other classes? I know they are not the best but are they as low as Balance?

can't maintank in any guild that clears content past MC and 20mans.

they heal great.

dps is the same as other meme specs like balance, bottom of the barrel.

[Theloras 108]

5 minutes ago, kingRat said:

can't maintank in any guild that clears content past MC and 20mans.

they heal great.

dps is the same as other meme specs like balance, bottom of the barrel.

you're just an ill informed and spiteful little troll who should mind their own business 

[kingRat 1]

14 minutes ago, Theloras said:

you're just an ill informed and spiteful little troll who should mind their own business 

Link a top performing guild with a paladin maintank and or a ret doing top 5 melee dps please.

[Theloras 108]

45 minutes ago, kingRat said:

Link a top performing guild with a paladin maintank and or a ret doing top 5 melee dps please.

Initially you said and I quote, "Bottom of the barrel."

now you say, "Top 5 melee dps."

way to stay on message - perhaps you should work for the Trump administration...

lolololol

[Whitewolf 1]

On 5/24/2017 at 1:04 PM, Habskilla said:

My main 3 questions,

1) How do Rets fair in PvP? I never played Paladin till Cata and all that I remember about them is they get kited to hell. However I have a feeling it isn't so bad in Vanilla

2) Can they main tank / main heal?

3) How is their DPS compared to other classes? I know they are not the best but are they as low as Balance?

In pvp your goal is not to dps, but rather use your utility to its fullest which includes your damage.

Done right, paladins will do roughly 80-90% of the damage of warriors and rogues done right.

Paladins can main tank any boss that doesn't require taunt swapping.

[killerduki 54]

23 minutes ago, Whitewolf said:

Paladins can main tank any boss that doesn't require taunt swapping.

They can still do taunt swapping all fights that exist , if they use the proper mechanic according to original ways (unless encounter is bugged).

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Whitewolf 1]

6 hours ago, killerduki said:

They can still do taunt swapping all fights that exist , if they use the proper mechanic according to original ways (unless encounter is bugged).

/Kind regards Killerduki

I guess it's possible technically, but it would be more involved than taunting back and forth and everyone would have to watch their threat.

I have a question for you Killerduki. What is the value of defense on boss fights when redoubt can drastically increase mitigation on fights where the boss can't bypass block? It's seems like it would be better to use redoubt for the occasional 100% mitigation as you are going to get crushing blowed anyway.

[kingRat 1]

11 hours ago, Theloras said:

Initially you said and I quote, "Bottom of the barrel."

now you say, "Top 5 melee dps."

way to stay on message - perhaps you should work for the Trump administration...

lolololol

Yeah, their dps compared to classes/specs that are made to dps is bottom of the barrel as in not even close to being on par even if the players playing the pure dps classes are generally worse.

You're still free to link any well performing retri paladins or pala main tanks from any top performing guild instead of nitpicking on the message.

But I suppose since you can only try to subvert and steer the conversation in the other direction stems from the fact you can't prove your claim.

 

Less 'lololololol' - more raidstats :)

[killerduki 54]

9 hours ago, Whitewolf said:

I guess it's possible technically, but it would be more involved than taunting back and forth and everyone would have to watch their threat.

I have a question for you Killerduki. What is the value of defense on boss fights when redoubt can drastically increase mitigation on fights where the boss can't bypass block? It's seems like it would be better to use redoubt for the occasional 100% mitigation as you are going to get crushing blowed anyway.

Redoubt will not bypass the critical strike eaten , so never do that.

You don't want to eat crits, crit is 100% damage taken , crushing blow is 50% damage taken and happens only 15% (early tier only) .

I'd gladly eat crushing blow rather than eating crit.

Def Cap>Stamina>Block Value>Parry is all that matter.

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Patchi 4]

Just do your job, go Holy, get loots, raid and see content.

[Whitewolf 1]

2 hours ago, Patchi said:

Just do your job, go Holy, get loots, raid and see content.

It's a game, not a job. Seems someone is a little sour.

[Whitewolf 1]

3 hours ago, killerduki said:

Redoubt will not bypass the critical strike eaten , so never do that.

You don't want to eat crits, crit is 100% damage taken , crushing blow is 50% damage taken and happens only 15% (early tier only) .

I'd gladly eat crushing blow rather than eating crit.

Def Cap>Stamina>Block Value>Parry is all that matter.

/Kind regards Killerduki

Wouldn't you only take that crit once if you have enough mitigation with redoubt and holy shield to hit 102.6% mitigation? For however many charges of holy shield and redoubt are left you would be uncrittable and uncrushable.

The reason I'm asking is because it is only 5.6% chance to be crit and redoubt makes sure you can't be crit right after if you have holy shield up. Of course I may be missing something like mobs special attacks working like player special attacks?

[killerduki 54]

1 minute ago, Whitewolf said:

Wouldn't you only take that crit once if you have enough mitigation with redoubt and holy shield to hit 102.6% mitigation? For however many charges of holy shield and redoubt are left you would be uncrittable and uncrushable.

The reason I'm asking is because it is only 5.6% chance to be crit and redoubt makes sure you can't be crit right after if you have holy shield up. Of course I may be missing something like mobs special attacks working like player special attacks?

First of all 102.6% mitigation is WoTLK patch.

Vanilla is only 100% mitigation.

1 Crit is more damage than 4 mitigated hits and is even more damage than 1 Crushing Blow.

Thus even with Redoubt you wont get to 100% avoidance unless full bis gear forever from naxx including ,so worthless trying.

1 Crit is 2 times worse than eating 1  Crushing blow , or let say 2 Crushing Blows = 1 Crit.

I'd rather eat Crushing Blow than eat crits.

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Theloras 108]

13 hours ago, kingRat said:

Yeah, their dps compared to classes/specs that are made to dps is bottom of the barrel as in not even close to being on par even if the players playing the pure dps classes are generally worse.

You're still free to link any well performing retri paladins or pala main tanks from any top performing guild instead of nitpicking on the message.

But I suppose since you can only try to subvert and steer the conversation in the other direction stems from the fact you can't prove your claim.

 

Less 'lololololol' - more raidstats :)

#1 Laserd 170924(842/s) 7.1%

#2 Pepito 160193(789/s) 6.6%

#3 Feendilly 155652(767/s) 6.4%

#4 @Smiter 142722(703/s) 5.9%

#5 Publicradio 142500(702/s) 5.9%

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverview.aspx?Raid=74527&Fight=4

http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=Ana&player=Smiter

you were saying...

[Patchi 4]

3 hours ago, Whitewolf said:

It's a game, not a job. Seems someone is a little sour.

But people in raids have a Job to do or else the raid doesn't work, does it? Paladins are best at healing, so that's the role they do in top tier guilds that will clear the content. Thus, making a pally's job in a raid to heal.

[Patchi 4]

57 minutes ago, Theloras said:

#1 Laserd 170924(842/s) 7.1%

#2 Pepito 160193(789/s) 6.6%

#3 Feendilly 155652(767/s) 6.4%

#4 @Smiter 142722(703/s) 5.9%

#5 Publicradio 142500(702/s) 5.9%

http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/FightOverview.aspx?Raid=74527&Fight=4

http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=Ana&player=Smiter

you were saying...

 top performing guild

One of these things is not like the other.

[Theloras 108]

1 minute ago, Patchi said:

 top performing guild

One of these things is not like the other.

um we're 7/9 AQ40 bro with most of our guild never having set foot inside AQ40 at all or not since 2006 and retail Vanilla...

[Whitewolf 1]

31 minutes ago, Patchi said:

But people in raids have a Job to do or else the raid doesn't work, does it? Paladins are best at healing, so that's the role they do in top tier guilds that will clear the content. Thus, making a pally's job in a raid to heal.

Paladins aren't the best at healing, but they are the best at longevity when healing. Paladins can heal and do damage effectively while being highly versatile when it comes to the needs of the raid. Being able to do 80-90% of the dps of a warrior or rogue while easily swapping gear sets to heal a raid if needed is not something to sneeze at especially with all of the utility paladins bring in addition to.

[Patchi 4]

Yeah, top performing guilds are 9/9, AQ's been out a month now ....

[Whitewolf 1]

7 minutes ago, Patchi said:

Yeah, top performing guilds are 9/9, AQ's been out a month now ....

So their raid make up is good for them, it does not mean it is good for others. They have players at a higher skill level generally which further sques the results as they make less mistakes and perform better. They also have more people that actually sink time and effort into getting all the raid buffs and consumables.

Those raid makeups aren't always the best for non top raiders.

In conclusion, apples to oranges.

[Patchi 4]

1 minute ago, Whitewolf said:

So their raid make up is good for them, it does not mean it is good for others. They have players at a higher skill level generally which further sques the results as they make less mistakes and perform better. They also have more people that actually sink time and effort into getting all the raid buffs and consumables.

Those raid makeups aren't always the best for non top raiders.

In conclusion, apples to oranges.

I didn't say paladins were THE best healers, I said healing is their best spec, their strongest spec to contribute to a raid. But some guilds don't mind bringing a ret, which is fine, but you won't see a top tier guild that pushes progression and min maxing their raid bring a ret paladin.

[Theloras 108]

29 minutes ago, Patchi said:

I didn't say paladins were THE best healers, I said healing is their best spec, their strongest spec to contribute to a raid. But some guilds don't mind bringing a ret, which is fine, but you won't see a top tier guild that pushes progression and min maxing their raid bring a ret paladin.

when did I ever say a min/max guild would have a Ret in the first place?