WSG FC - Frost Mage vs Ret Paladin (engineers) ?

[Gladius 0]

Everyone agrees druids are the best vanilla flag carriers. But when a druid isn't available, which one you think is a better FC and why?

[balanced 0]

Id think a prot/holy paladin would be a better FC than a retribution paladin.But either way id say a frost mage is a better FC than a ret.

[Gladius 0]

There are a lot of scenarios where I feel like retribution paladins have advantage as FC over mages. Ret and not holy/prot because rets get extra 6sec instant range cc that makes whole lot of difference. With prot offspec for improved blessing of freedom & 15 sec stun cd reduction.

 

While a frost mage needs to stop in order to cast polymorph, ret paladin can use repentance/stun on the move. There have been times when carrying flag as a ret, I've cced a lock and a priest trying to cast fear and sprinted past them. That fear would have landed on a frost mage letting enemy catch up - lost flag.

 

While mages' selfcure ability only includes iceblock (instantly removing harmful effects and repicking the flag), paladins have 2 bubbles for that function, plus dispel/heal. They also get blessing of freedom not to get slowed. True that mages can use frostnova/blink to get away from melee, but it will take just 2 warriors having Spider Belt or any other movement immunity cds to follow up the mage with hamstring, cutting him down fast 6k health or not. Ret paladins (meaning that they wear a shield and decent prot gear while carrying) having 65% physical damage reduction plus defence skill won't be cut down so easily. There have been countless times when mages couldnt bring the flag out of efr guarded by good rogue/hunters but as a ret I could.

 

A good FC doesnt just count on its class abilities but also has lots of engineering items/trinkets to help with carrying. Frost mages are good FCs, but I think ret paladins are just as good if not better in many aspects.

 

Would welcome more opinions.

[Rose_ 0]

Blink and cold snap/ice block trumps anything a retgod can do

[Gladius 0]

9 hours ago, Rose_ said:

a retgod

Haters are gonna follow, but these are opinions. Cold snap having 10 min cooldown isn't really something you will have handy.

[QQsya 4]

Ret is meh.  Repentance is a meme and BoF is easily countered by priests/shamans that aren't asleep.  For sure paladins can be decent flag carriers, probably better than shamans who are incredibly vulnerable to being CC'd/stunlocked, but if druid is number one then mage is solidly number two.

The truly annoying paladins are the prot/holy ones, ie reckadins.

 

[Gladius 0]

7 hours ago, QQsya said:

Ret is meh.

We've heard that countless times.

7 hours ago, QQsya said:

Repentance is a meme

How is it a meme when its an 1. Instant cc. 2. Range. 3. Lasts 6 secs.

7 hours ago, QQsya said:

and BoF is easily countered by priests/shamans that aren't asleep.

The said ccs are in the first place aimed at priests/shamans who may cause the most damage to the paladin. Enemy usually doesn't have more than one of these and its even less likely they will be guarding FR/being wherever efc is. And if the enemy controls the flow so much that they can get their priests/shamans and all of their team on the efc, then noone is going to survive, especially a mage.

 

Also, comparing a paladin and a shaman in terms of flag carrying ability is very wrong, since shamans don't have even a fraction of the self-sustain that paladins have.

[Rose_ 0]

not hating, it's just not as viable from a utility standpoint - yes, what you're mentioning are all decent cooldowns and a great utility in a support role, but a holy paladin will be even more useful even if you're just talking about paladins, and a druid will also be more useful with stuff like feral charge, no slows, 5 sec bash, nature's grasp, etc

[flowqz 34]

On 9.6.2017 at 5:05 PM, Gladius said:

We've heard that countless times.

How is it a meme when its an 1. Instant cc. 2. Range. 3. Lasts 6 secs.

The said ccs are in the first place aimed at priests/shamans who may cause the most damage to the paladin. Enemy usually doesn't have more than one of these and its even less likely they will be guarding FR/being wherever efc is. And if the enemy controls the flow so much that they can get their priests/shamans and all of their team on the efc, then noone is going to survive, especially a mage.

 

Also, comparing a paladin and a shaman in terms of flag carrying ability is very wrong, since shamans don't have even a fraction of the self-sustain that paladins have.

you can do all your support stuff without beeing the carrier. mages cant buff you with blink.

[Paditz 3]

Druid > Paladin > rest

[Logolasxx 0]

And how about you play holy and actually support mage FC, as you should? Shocking scenario inc I know, but here it comes, just imagine, you follow mage FC, he has all the dispels, freedom, your CC, heals AND he still has a blink, IB, etc. If it's played like that it's about 100x better then any paladin FC or solo mage.

[Elrik 0]

druid+pally=best FC, ofc.

war+pally, mage+pally, rogue+pally better then pally+pally.

[Parla 1]

1. Druid

2. Mage

3. Everyone else

4. The moron who enters wsg on a paladin with anything but holy spec. (Will usually bubble / mount while carrying the flag)

[Gladius 0]

Rose_

You are comparing general usefulness of a paladin to other classes which is not the subject of this thread so I won't argue here. The thread is about flag carrying ability.

On 6/13/2017 at 2:13 PM, flowqz said:

mages cant buff you with blink.

Paladins cant buff you with defence skill. Appropriate enough answer?

Logolasxx, Elrik

If you had played any considerable amount of WSG you would have known that a FC usually cannot stay put in one place to be supported but he kites around. If the incoming attack is so weak that there's no need to kite, then its probably fine for any FC but less so for a mage.

5 hours ago, Parla said:

The moron who enters wsg on a paladin with anything but holy spec

Maybe you should reconsider your existence as a "human" being and respec as something smarter than you - an ape? ;)

[Aceboltz 0]

  The paladin should be holy and put BoF on his druid/mage buddy. That's the best WSG FC.

[Gladius 0]

Just now, Aceboltz said:

  The paladin should be holy and put BoF on his druid/mage buddy. That's the best WSG FC.

The problem is that healers can be peeled off. FCs more often than not need to be alone and cannot stay put in one place (as I've stated before).

Also, as you state mage FCs need paladin support. While paladin FCs can do fine with any support.

[kauerle 0]

some 3k bolts flying towards ret = dead, mage ice blocks = gg. paladin is holy in a proper pre vs pre environment where druids/mages fc. everthing else is garbage pvp and not relevant.