So about these AVs lately...

[piastoax 0]

Stop using the term "most people", since you don't know "most people". That is what makes everything you state pure rubbish. Everything I stated is fact based on years of actual experience leading games of Alterac Valley, that includes experience leading AV on Elysium, with players working as a team to push objectives.   Of course there are reasons why people leave a battleground.  Sometimes they don't have time.  Sometimes they get sick of seeing the trolls in BG chat.  Sometimes it's to jerk off.  Sometimes it's even because people are refusing to push objectives.  You ass-u-me too much. 

The current location of the Horde cave gives Horde an advantage in the straight up blitz race, which is what most games are, which explains the high Horde win rates.  This was proven when Blizzard moved the Horde cave farther south, causing Alliance to win most games. If you tracked the statistics of only games in which teams actually pushed objectives, the win rate would be higher for those teams who did versus teams who didn't.  The conversation ultimately is about how to win AV and also to answer a question about why Horde win most games.  My answers to these questions are all correct.  You have no control of how long a random pug game will take since ultimately there will be people in the BG who want to PVP and play objectives to win, which is how the battleground was designed to be played.  It's the people who come in and start spewing toxicity in chat and trolling people that cause games to take longer.  Instead of trying to work as a team, they spend their time AFK, arguing in BG chat, insisting back door or losing is the only way to play AV, insulting and trolling people with viable strategies and ideas to counter a game in which the enemy team is defending. 

If you want every game to be a fast game, run your own premade where everyone goes back door.  But I guarantee you will lose many games that way, and people will start dropping out of your premade like flies when you lose, especially if it's on purpose for the sake of saving time.

As for why the Horde win rate is lower in other BG's, there are various reasons to explain this.  The Horde queues are much longer than Alliance queues, and there are a lot more higher ranked Alliance players in the game, and a lot more Alliance premades going on.  Almost every WSG or AB I go in to, the opposite team has all higher ranked players, usually a premade with the perfect comp, making it an unfair game.  On the opposite side of the spectrum, there are a lot of people who give up too easily when they see that.  The second they see a premade they already decide to lose the game without trying.  I've even seen Horde premades do that, simply because they are severely outgeared by the other premade.  However, none of this has anything to do with Alterac Valley.  

Again, there is a large community of people who enjoy Alterac Valley, whether the games are long or short.  Look at the link from my preious post about the Rathamus strategy.   The same strategy on Elysium has a 100% win rate.

[Hurricane2 2]

I have 20k hks (on 1 char, another with 3k) on this server so when I say most people I mean most people.  It's not based on an opinion, it's based on what I have observed.

I do most of my games on alliance as a pug and the vast majority of the AB and WSG games i join (AV is pretty even) have a much higher ratio of higher ranking horde players.  The times I've been in a premade the opposing team was also a premade nearly every time.  The reason I mention that experience is because of my reference to win % for each in all the bgs and that it's even in all except AV.  Horde can wipe the alliance rush much more easily which sends us back to the gy and gives us the choice to defend or afk and afk is against the TOS.  You can slowly push down the map doing objectives but that will never end a game in under 2 hrs.  Which I have seen alliance do but horde goes to mid to stalemate alliance or back door every time since it's a waste of time to take the objectives since they can skip them easily. 

Yes 10 alliance can stop the horde rush but they get virtually no help from npcs which creates a standoff where there's no dying which is boring and thus people don't want to do it.  The horde on the other hand can kill the majority (with far less than 10 players) of the alliance rush by snaring them and letting npcs do all the work for them.

The alternative of course is to fix the backdoor error but that would give the edge back to alliance although that edge would be less than hordes current advantage.  A mirrored map design would of course be most fair but this not going to happen.

[piastoax 0]

20K ROFL.  I have over 350,000 HK's in retail all from doing Rath strat AV's with a 99% win rate, and I use the same strategies in AV on Elysium as I did in retail.  I also have close to 8000 HK's on my Elysium toon now, most of which came from AV.  If the # of HK's you have empowers you to speak on behalf of "most people", I think I've got you beat there.  But, I am not arguing that most people YOU KNOW may not enjoy a long game of AV.  But guess what, most people I know DO.  So, where can we go with that?  Do you want to have a popularity contest?  

You're wrong about Horde being able to wipe the Alliance rush easily.   All it takes is a literally once mage near Icewing bunker to wipe the entire horde back door team before they even get to the back door. Frost nova and the mine layer, archers, lieutenants and rams will take care of the rest. But that isn't needed.  My suggestion of 10 players was for defending the actual back door, a permanent defense team that just defends the base while the rest of the team does objectives.  You don't need to wipe Horde on their way to aid station. Wait until they are actually there before you wipe them.  If you wipe them too early, you might force them to defend early.   You want to buy as much time for your team to push the objectives as possible.  In a pug game, this may simply not be possible due to people coming into the game late. You have no control of that, so you need to work with it; in other words, push objectives.

You're also wrong about Alliance not being able to win in under two hours by pushing down the map and doing objectives. Just because you haven't been able to do it does not mean it's not possible. You just need a team that works together to control the right graveyards and choke points.  In other words, learn how to play the game.  Try rushing IBT at the beginning of the game. Defend it. Then move to TP and then FW GY.  Leave IB GY to the Horde so that they can keep trying to go north.  Send people to kill Galv later in the game.  Maybe you'll be surprised at the outcome.  If objectives were so easily skipped, then you would be able to win every game easily. But you can't, so you need objectives to win.  Don't forget to leave some people on defense or this won't work.  It's not guaranteed, but it's a viable strat.

The NPCs defending the Alliance aid station and the stable master hit very hard, and you can take advantage of that easily by having some mages and hunters near the flag and kiting Horde to agro more NPCS like the druids near the aid station.

If you're in a pug game you obviously may need to educate people of any of these strategies.   That's the hardest part of all this, since it would seem "most people" simply don't know how to play AV or don't want to play it.  If your team is full of "lets get this over with" and "let them win" players or "this is taking too long", that is why it's hopeless.  Stop trying to play the game with a silver spoon in your mouth and you might get somewhere.  If you don't like the game, don't play it at all.  This seems like the category you fit in.

If the vast majority of AB & WSG games you join have a much higher ratio of higher ranking horde players, then you are in the minority. I can assure you this because, again,  your personal experience does not represent the experience of everyone on the server, or even "most people".  I refuse to believe you personally know all 8000+ players on the server and there are no actual statistics to prove what you are saying is true.  I play only Horde, and my experience in BG's is exactly what I stated. 

In summary, your entire complaint is that the Horde have easy wins instead of Alliance. Stop trying to get easy wins.  AV isn't supposed to be easy.  Work the map, have some fun PVP and win the game.  It might take an hour, it might take 2, it might take 3.  Quit your whining and just play the game.

It would be funny to hear what your response is if Elysium moved the Horde cave farther south, giving Alliance the advantage. You'd probably just tell Horde to stop whining and get over it.  But, even if they did that, we'd still roflstomp your ass.

[Yep 0]

but his most people dont enjoy it statement is true though.. xd

[csant 3]

I also think most people forget or never experience vanilla AV that took days to finish. 

[Enemyrogue 1]

People dont just farm honor, they also go for rep and herbs/mining + the 40 silver for repeatable kill turn in quests

[Justme 9]

People do AV for fun. If you wanna farm rep/honor go for a premade. Pugs will never be effecient in farming anything but thats not a bad thing

[dogmax 2]

Back door is fine and is not even close to cheating. Alliance can easily win AV if they rush too or put 5 mages to wipe the entire horde raid at icewing. It has happened before. The only reason it doesnt happen often is because alliance turtle instead. If backdoor is patched horde can't win any games because the asymmetrical map favours alliance much much more than the backdoor favors horde. It doesnt even make sense to use balance as an argument for patching the back door because the map is much more fair WITH the back door. Alliance can still wipe the entire horde raid @ the back door if they get their shit together. The only reason horde wins is because they organise and actually use the only viable strategy they have. Alliance could easily counter the back door but GG half the alliance premades insist on doing turtle strats.

[Hurricane2 2]

See above post if you're interested in listening to someone who has no idea what they're talking about.

[piastoax 0]

Neither of you have any clue what the fuck you're talking about.

[Hurricane2 2]

On 7/21/2017 at 3:09 PM, piastoax said:

20K ROFL.  I have over 350,000 HK's in retail all from doing Rath strat AV's with a 99% win rate, and I use the same strategies in AV on Elysium as I did in retail.  I also have close to 8000 HK's on my Elysium toon now, most of which came from AV.  If the # of HK's you have empowers you to speak on behalf of "most people", I think I've got you beat there.  But, I am not arguing that most people YOU KNOW may not enjoy a long game of AV.  But guess what, most people I know DO.  So, where can we go with that?  Do you want to have a popularity contest?  

You're wrong about Horde being able to wipe the Alliance rush easily.   All it takes is a literally once mage near Icewing bunker to wipe the entire horde back door team before they even get to the back door. Frost nova and the mine layer, archers, lieutenants and rams will take care of the rest. But that isn't needed.  My suggestion of 10 players was for defending the actual back door, a permanent defense team that just defends the base while the rest of the team does objectives.  You don't need to wipe Horde on their way to aid station. Wait until they are actually there before you wipe them.  If you wipe them too early, you might force them to defend early.   You want to buy as much time for your team to push the objectives as possible.  In a pug game, this may simply not be possible due to people coming into the game late. You have no control of that, so you need to work with it; in other words, push objectives.

You're also wrong about Alliance not being able to win in under two hours by pushing down the map and doing objectives. Just because you haven't been able to do it does not mean it's not possible. You just need a team that works together to control the right graveyards and choke points.  In other words, learn how to play the game.  Try rushing IBT at the beginning of the game. Defend it. Then move to TP and then FW GY.  Leave IB GY to the Horde so that they can keep trying to go north.  Send people to kill Galv later in the game.  Maybe you'll be surprised at the outcome.  If objectives were so easily skipped, then you would be able to win every game easily. But you can't, so you need objectives to win.  Don't forget to leave some people on defense or this won't work.  It's not guaranteed, but it's a viable strat.

The NPCs defending the Alliance aid station and the stable master hit very hard, and you can take advantage of that easily by having some mages and hunters near the flag and kiting Horde to agro more NPCS like the druids near the aid station.

If you're in a pug game you obviously may need to educate people of any of these strategies.   That's the hardest part of all this, since it would seem "most people" simply don't know how to play AV or don't want to play it.  If your team is full of "lets get this over with" and "let them win" players or "this is taking too long", that is why it's hopeless.  Stop trying to play the game with a silver spoon in your mouth and you might get somewhere.  If you don't like the game, don't play it at all.  This seems like the category you fit in.

If the vast majority of AB & WSG games you join have a much higher ratio of higher ranking horde players, then you are in the minority. I can assure you this because, again,  your personal experience does not represent the experience of everyone on the server, or even "most people".  I refuse to believe you personally know all 8000+ players on the server and there are no actual statistics to prove what you are saying is true.  I play only Horde, and my experience in BG's is exactly what I stated. 

In summary, your entire complaint is that the Horde have easy wins instead of Alliance. Stop trying to get easy wins.  AV isn't supposed to be easy.  Work the map, have some fun PVP and win the game.  It might take an hour, it might take 2, it might take 3.  Quit your whining and just play the game.

It would be funny to hear what your response is if Elysium moved the Horde cave farther south, giving Alliance the advantage. You'd probably just tell Horde to stop whining and get over it.  But, even if they did that, we'd still roflstomp your ass.

I forgot to point out how irrelevant your retail #s are.  And most of your rambling.  I pointed out my #s here because having played here much more than you I have a better understanding of how things are here.  It's not about being empowered to speak on behalf of the server but that I simply have a good understanding of PvP and Bgs on this server.

[piastoax 0]

Your understanding of PVP and BG's, and anything else you've babbled about, is about the equivalent of a molecule of smegma.

[Firebrand 3]

>Hurr durr its alliance that are stupid and cannot win AVs.

 

Meanwhile on world bosses, an even ground perfectly balanced for both factions. Horde only got 2 azuregos 0 kazzak.

 

Who is the stupid faction? The one that cant win in an unbalanced bg or the one that cant win on fair ground?.

Stay mad hordekids