Advanced nerdery, Proc rate question

[Triene 0]

Basic question: Does adding an Iron Counterweight to a Nightfall increase or decrease proc rate?

Background: I'm a raiding off-tank.  On 1 or 2 tank fights, using Nightfall allows me to put a debuff on some bosses that increases raid's overall dps.  I have added an Iron Counterweight to the weapon, but am unsure if that has a negative or positive impact on the proc rate.  Faster attack weapons have less uptime on some procs, such as crusader.  I am unsure if the Counterweight's 3% speed increase is a good or bad thing to use in this case.

I do not know if the proc rate is tied to the item card's speed or if the Counterweight's change is calculated before or after proc %.  If anyone has any insight, it would be appreciated.

 

[Wericia 1]

As far as i know, it's the base attack speed of the weapon that matters when it comes to PPM.
Othervise you'd get lower proc chance with flurry, warchief's blessing, attack speed enchants, counterweight etc.

[Storfan 24]

7 hours ago, Triene said:

Basic question: Does adding an Iron Counterweight to a Nightfall increase or decrease proc rate?

Background: I'm a raiding off-tank.  On 1 or 2 tank fights, using Nightfall allows me to put a debuff on some bosses that increases raid's overall dps.  I have added an Iron Counterweight to the weapon, but am unsure if that has a negative or positive impact on the proc rate.  Faster attack weapons have less uptime on some procs, such as crusader.  I am unsure if the Counterweight's 3% speed increase is a good or bad thing to use in this case.

I do not know if the proc rate is tied to the item card's speed or if the Counterweight's change is calculated before or after proc %.  If anyone has any insight, it would be appreciated.

 

 

1 hour ago, Wericia said:

As far as i know, it's the base attack speed of the weapon that matters when it comes to PPM.
Othervise you'd get lower proc chance with flurry, warchief's blessing, attack speed enchants, counterweight etc.

What Wericia say is correct. PPM sets a solid percentage of proc-rate depending on your weapons speed and it is not affected by modifiers such as haste from enchants or flurry. Also important to note is that PPM in vanilla does NOT include an internal CD as that was later added with TBC. This means that haste will not increase nor decrease the chance of a proc occuring, however a higher grand total of hits in a given time period will also result in higher grand total of procs in that same time period.

tldr: Haste has no effect on proc-chance, but it does mean more procs in a given time period due to more hits being made.

[Triene 0]

Awesome, thank you.  I'll keep the Counterweight on it.

[Undertanker 88]

If your concern is uptime using nightfall, I recommend putting Lifestealing or Fiery Weapon on it.

Both 6 PPM enchants.  If you are on MC-BWL content realm use Lifestealing, if you are in AQ - Naxx use Fiery (due to mob resist)

The 6 PPM tells us that regardless of the base weapon speed we should get 6 procs in 1 minute (with only counting auto attack), which will tell us the proc % rate of the enchant on said weapon.  In this case is Nightfall - 3.5 delay.

60 / 3.5 = 17.14 auto attacks a minute.

We should get 6 procs in that minute.   6 / 17.14 = 35% proc rate.   35% proc rate  and using hamstring as rage allows with ZG Neck and PVP Gloves, you can get a decent uptime on nightfall vs only using 3% counterweight.

[Trynux 0]

1 hour ago, Undertanker said:

If your concern is uptime using nightfall, I recommend putting Lifestealing or Fiery Weapon on it.

Both 6 PPM enchants.  If you are on MC-BWL content realm use Lifestealing, if you are in AQ - Naxx use Fiery (due to mob resist)

The 6 PPM tells us that regardless of the base weapon speed we should get 6 procs in 1 minute (with only counting auto attack), which will tell us the proc % rate of the enchant on said weapon.  In this case is Nightfall - 3.5 delay.

60 / 3.5 = 17.14 auto attacks a minute.

We should get 6 procs in that minute.   6 / 17.14 = 35% proc rate.   35% proc rate  and using hamstring as rage allows with ZG Neck and PVP Gloves, you can get a decent uptime on nightfall vs only using 3% counterweight.

So wait Nightfall's proc can proc off Fiery wep and Lifesteal?

[Undertanker 88]

It should.  I don't have one to test though.   The only restriction I see on chance on hit procs is things can not proc if the source is the same as cast, ie: things can't proc itself like fiery proc fiery.  Though even that restriction should only apply to TF and not all procs like it currently is scripted

[Trynux 0]

On 25.7.2017 at 3:45 PM, Undertanker said:

It should.  I don't have one to test though.   The only restriction I see on chance on hit procs is things can not proc if the source is the same as cast, ie: things can't proc itself like fiery proc fiery.  Though even that restriction should only apply to TF and not all procs like it currently is scripted

so that also means the Ironfoe and Hoj can proc of lifesteal and fiery wep's proc?
doesn't that make it better than crusader?

[femdead 0]

Fiery can proc fiery on this server at least

[Undertanker 88]

So was the restriction of Spell ID proc can't not proc if source is same Spell ID been secretly removed?  If so, sweet.

Now they just need to put chance on hit procs back on shield bash and shield slam.   WTB Sunder procs so DMC: Maelstrom can be useful again outside of farming.