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Theloras' Retribution Guide

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Great guide Theo!

I have some questions regarding Spell Crit.

To what extent does Spell Crit improve your DPS?

To rephrase my question, what spells benefit from spell crit?

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49 minutes ago, mrcer said:

Great guide Theo!

I have some questions regarding Spell Crit.

To what extent does Spell Crit improve your DPS?

To rephrase my question, what spells benefit from spell crit?

Judgement of Righteousness, Exorcism, Holy Wrath and Holy Shock

BUT

If you go with proc items (Fiery Retributer, Fiery Plate Gauntlets/Storm Gauntlets, Blazefury Medallion and of course Lifestealing enchant), spell crit is a huge DPS boost since all of the procs are spells which can crit to trigger Vengeance - once they fix this bug of course:

Weapon + Trinket + Enchant + Item proc crits do not trigger the Paladin talent Vengeance

 

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Quick question Theloras, What do you suggest the best enchant for a spellpower based pally is right now, since lifestealing no longer scales ?

Also, is fiery weapon still scaling ?

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7 minutes ago, Polibius said:

Quick question Theloras, What do you suggest the best enchant for a spellpower based pally is right now, since lifestealing no longer scales ?

Also, is fiery weapon still scaling ?

Since nothing is scaling anymore (uncluding fiery) I'd say 30sp or 25agi (depending on server), since vengeance still increases ur holy dmg dealt.

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Hey Poli - good to see you back on the server!

Fiery weapon never scaled but Fiery BLAZE and Lifestealing did - however those too have been nerfed.

Fiery and Lifestealing are still both good to use even when not scaling because when they crit you gain Vengeance.

Plus they both also take out a Shaman's Grounding totem when they proc in PvP.

30 spell dmg is also a good enchant as well to boost SoC/JoC and SoR/JoR but 25 AGI isn't available on any server yet as it was originally released in the AQ 1.9 patch.

Edited by Theloras

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Despite all of the typical nay-saying, I decided to a roll a paladin as my first on a this server 2 weeks ago 100% as a result of reading your guide! I'm level 40 now, and have started doing more raids. I'm not really twinking, mostly greens and this: http://www.wowhead.com/item=1722/thornstone-sledgehammer I've specced 100% ret tree so far and holy to consecrate.



Two questions I'd like to figure out before I reach end game:

1. Why not spec into Benediction instead of pursuit of justice? What saves you more time questing? A tiny walking advantage or having to guzzle less mana water? Similair question regarding SoR instead of FoL? After all, if I'm going pure face melting DPS , doesn't hurt to have more options in my tool belt? When clearing trash, there's often not enough time to worry about SotC and SoC. I'll throw up a SoR for stuff I know I'll get 2 hits on.


2. So far, my DPS in raids has been pretty impressive to me. I'm beating out every other class by huge margins (even mages 2 - 3 levels above me). Only class that's been comparable are warriors. Solo however is a VERY different story - Inconsistent. A mob with high health and my DPS will be 300%-500% different between fights. ie. I'll spend 2 minutes to kill a mob with 2k health, and the next time I'll spend 10 seconds. I'm VERY reliant on white critical. Too much strength stacking? Not enough agility? More intellect?


I can play around with this, but I need to figure out what gives there. No one on the server so far has been any help. They are all of the 100% Int+Spirit mindset or 100% Str stacking. People have told me agility is a wasted stat on Pallys... seems like maybe I'm inconsistent due to lack of agil ie. low crit percentage at start of the fight?


PS: I'm Darrowshire and pretty much a PVE-er.

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Agility is a wasted stat? Once you get the Vengeance Talent (25 point Ret talent), you will appreciate having some agi/+crit for Vengeance uptime.

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I have yet to find anyone who knows anything about the class outside of this forum and discord.


I actually have a 3rd question: Why not go into Divine Intellect instead of SoR in holy tree?

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3 hours ago, maplemale said:

I have yet to find anyone who knows anything about the class outside of this forum and discord.


I actually have a 3rd question: Why not go into Divine Intellect instead of SoR in holy tree?

As different kind of opinion , did you ever check my posts around about it?

/Kind regards Killerduki

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24 minutes ago, killerduki said:

As different kind of opinion , did you ever check my posts around about it?

/Kind regards Killerduki

People don't like bad information though.

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22 minutes ago, killerduki said:

As different kind of opinion , did you ever check my posts around about it?

/Kind regards Killerduki

AH... thanks for pointing that out. I missed your post and your build: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sE0zZVhZEf0tbcq

I think that's pretty much what i'm going for as the all out PVE raiding spec I desire. All of your choices make the most sense to me...  unfortunate though there's not a way to get kings. I may honestly swap consecrate for it.

Maybe spell dmg bonus from intellect spec will give me the more consistent DPS i'm looking for while leveling. Maybe some of it's my gear being so heavily strength stacked with no agil or int.

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2 hours ago, Bed said:

People don't like bad information though.

How is it bad? What's wrong with it? That PVE spec makes a lot more sense to me than Theloras's version if you're going for pure PVE and raiding. Given, I'm on a PVE server where very little PVP occurs. I'll just state the following to stir up corrections if I'm wrong:

Guardian's Favor: Waste - why not deal more DPS instead?
Spiritual Focus: If I have to throw off healz, the raid has issues / don't care
Pursuit of Justice: As I said, you only swap time walking for time drinking. Why not spend it on reducing mana cost instead (Benediction) and potentially increasing DPS / reducing OOM situations and being able to stack less MP5 and more Str/Int/Agil instead?
Repentance: Not very useful since bosses are going to be Imune?
Eye-for-an-Eye: Also wasted on boss fights? I mean... usually i'm standing behind the boss, not taking any hits and Eye never procs.

The spec into Divine Int: Seems like a no-brainer to me as it would increase spell damage.

The only one I'm not sure is necessary from Killerduki's post is the Precision. But, i don't understand Vanilla "hit cap" yet so i'm just not sure.

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9 hours ago, maplemale said:

Despite all of the typical nay-saying, I decided to a roll a paladin as my first on a this server 2 weeks ago 100% as a result of reading your guide! I'm level 40 now, and have started doing more raids. I'm not really twinking, mostly greens and this: http://www.wowhead.com/item=1722/thornstone-sledgehammer I've specced 100% ret tree so far and holy to consecrate.



Two questions I'd like to figure out before I reach end game:

1. Why not spec into Benediction instead of pursuit of justice? What saves you more time questing? A tiny walking advantage or having to guzzle less mana water? Similair question regarding SoR instead of FoL? After all, if I'm going pure face melting DPS , doesn't hurt to have more options in my tool belt? When clearing trash, there's often not enough time to worry about SotC and SoC. I'll throw up a SoR for stuff I know I'll get 2 hits on.


2. So far, my DPS in raids has been pretty impressive to me. I'm beating out every other class by huge margins (even mages 2 - 3 levels above me). Only class that's been comparable are warriors. Solo however is a VERY different story - Inconsistent. A mob with high health and my DPS will be 300%-500% different between fights. ie. I'll spend 2 minutes to kill a mob with 2k health, and the next time I'll spend 10 seconds. I'm VERY reliant on white critical. Too much strength stacking? Not enough agility? More intellect?


I can play around with this, but I need to figure out what gives there. No one on the server so far has been any help. They are all of the 100% Int+Spirit mindset or 100% Str stacking. People have told me agility is a wasted stat on Pallys... seems like maybe I'm inconsistent due to lack of agil ie. low crit percentage at start of the fight?


PS: I'm Darrowshire and pretty much a PVE-er.

Woot Darrowshire PvE!

1) I actually do Benediction > Improved Blessing of Might. Simply because anyone else can buff you with imp might.

2) DPS before 40 is quite impressive but you will see it caps off at 40 and doesn't really increase like it did prior to level 40. It will but it tops off and dies down since Ret for PvE is burst damaging and not sustainable since well, mp5.

I will add, as ret, I recommend STR/STA as you level. AGI/INT are also great around max level (Avengers gear has agi on it) but after you get 60 Str/int/sta/sp is something you might consider.

I hope my 2h guide can give you some insight on weapon ideas ahead.

8 hours ago, maplemale said:

I have yet to find anyone who knows anything about the class outside of this forum and discord.


I actually have a 3rd question: Why not go into Divine Intellect instead of SoR in holy tree?

@killerduki and I have debated in this for years!

lol it comes down to preference in the end.

For tanking I like DIV STR & IMP SoR, while he says always go for DIV STR & DIV INT. 

I use that for ret since IMP SOR doesn't scale with SP, and I use SoC for Ret.

4 hours ago, maplemale said:

AH... thanks for pointing that out. I missed your post and your build: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sE0zZVhZEf0tbcq

I think that's pretty much what i'm going for as the all out PVE raiding spec I desire. All of your choices make the most sense to me...  unfortunate though there's not a way to get kings. I may honestly swap consecrate for it.

Maybe spell dmg bonus from intellect spec will give me the more consistent DPS i'm looking for while leveling. Maybe some of it's my gear being so heavily strength stacked with no agil or int.

You can get Kings, use my oldschool spec:

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#sE0zZVGzZqf0trca

i used to use it, but I'm not the same paladin I used to be :p

3 hours ago, maplemale said:

How is it bad? What's wrong with it? That PVE spec makes a lot more sense to me than Theloras's version if you're going for pure PVE and raiding. Given, I'm on a PVE server where very little PVP occurs. I'll just state the following to stir up corrections if I'm wrong:

Guardian's Favor: Waste - why not deal more DPS instead?
Spiritual Focus: If I have to throw off healz, the raid has issues / don't care
Pursuit of Justice: As I said, you only swap time walking for time drinking. Why not spend it on reducing mana cost instead (Benediction) and potentially increasing DPS / reducing OOM situations and being able to stack less MP5 and more Str/Int/Agil instead?
Repentance: Not very useful since bosses are going to be Imune?
Eye-for-an-Eye: Also wasted on boss fights? I mean... usually i'm standing behind the boss, not taking any hits and Eye never procs.

The spec into Divine Int: Seems like a no-brainer to me as it would increase spell damage.

The only one I'm not sure is necessary from Killerduki's post is the Precision. But, i don't understand Vanilla "hit cap" yet so i'm just not sure.

I use Eye for and Eye, plus I like pursuit of justice as well as using DIV INT/DIV STR for aoe, however... INT won't increase SP in vanilla. 1 INT gives 15 Mana & there is a chart on how much int gives Spell Crit.

3/3 Precision into prot you gain 3% hit. Get 5% from gear (at 60) and you'll be golden.

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Just to be sure about which seal to use when soloing.

Fast weapon with DD proc=SoR (IE: Brain Hacker http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=1263)

Fast weapon without DD proc=SotC (IE: Manual Crowd Pummeler http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=9449)

Slow weapon with DD proc=SoC? (IE: Pendulum of Doom http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=9425)

Slow weapon without DD proc=SoC (IE: The Rockpounder http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=9413)

Is this right?

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1 hour ago, Roflburger said:

Fast weapon with DD proc=SoR (IE: Brain Hacker http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=1263)

Fast weapon without DD proc=SotC (IE: Manual Crowd Pummeler http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=9449)

Manual Crowd Pummeler is actually amazing for SoR but for lvling IMO it depends on what ranks you have available. SoR and SotC are pretty close as long as you judge SotC when using SoR.

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1 час назад, Roflburger сказал:

Just to be sure about which seal to use when soloing.

Fast weapon with DD proc=SoR (IE: Brain Hacker http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=1263)

Fast weapon without DD proc=SotC (IE: Manual Crowd Pummeler http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=9449)

Slow weapon with DD proc=SoC? (IE: Pendulum of Doom http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=9425)

Slow weapon without DD proc=SoC (IE: The Rockpounder http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=9413)

Is this right?

don't use sotc

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5 hours ago, lorthiras said:

don't use sotc

That would be bad advice. It does more dps while leveling than SoR/JoR without SotC debuff. And if you have a weapon of 3.3 or faster SoC loses out too because the loss of top end damage and the reduction of proc chance, but if you like to judge then you can get away with it. It just won't be a really noticeable difference in average kill time.

As an added bonus, it reduces the amount of mana you use in a fight because you aren't judging. Once you reach level 34, swapping talents for 5/5 reckoning will be your golden ticket for quick kill times and increased survivability when using S/JoL/W. Just try to stay out of water if you can...

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1 hour ago, Whitewolf said:

That would be bad advice. It does more dps while leveling than SoR/JoR without SotC debuff.

If you have weapon with procs , SoR is better while leveling

/Kind regards Killerduki

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