Melee Weapon Balance.

[riplip 2]

As you all may know, it is general common sense that almost every two handed melee weapon that is "too fast" is considered garbage. In this case, pretty much every two-hander that is below a 3.2 speed is considered far inferior to a weapon with 3.6 or above speed (due to the damage range), except for on the rare occasion that it is considered viable for the two-handed fury spec for Warriors.

 

Now to my point. Will there be any changes made to that? It is heart breaking to have an epic or a rare drop for you only to find out that it is only worth vendor price, when Blizzard originally intended for them all to be superior to items of previous level and/or rarity.

 

Let me first say that I understand the stance on "Blizzlike" and I know that it might be overstepping that boundary to be asking for changes like this, but at the same time, why have items that are useless when they were meant to be superior to others, especially when changes made to these said items were made in this present time of the game?

 

 

Let me give an example. Here is an item that is considered far inferior to any slow-swinging 2hander up to 15 levels below.

 

Weren't epics supposed to be superior to rares?

 

Before anybody replies to this thread saying "that wouldn't be blizzlike" let me remind you that the changes made to balance fast 2-handers with slow 2-handers was made DURING VANILLA on patch 1.8. and to that I hope it will be considered.

Edited November 15, 2016 by riplip

[фткyн 1469]

Most ppl want "pure" blizzlike, even if it sucks

[Aero 13]

Well they've said they want to emulate vanilla as accurately as possible. Submitting a bug report to the appropriate issue tracker (once whichever server is at 1.8) is your best chance of getting it fixed.

[Pottu 290]

I'm pretty sure we have weapon speed normalisation already in the system, as part of 1.12.1 mechanics. Unless I'm now confusing it with something else. Certainly people must have tested this out Nostalrius.

[riplip 2]

Pottu

 

[killerduki 54]

1.12 Patch Originally

 

 

Patch 1.4 Originally

 

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 16, 2016 by killerduki

[Undertanker 88]

You are posting patch 1.12.2 patch notes.   That is the patch for pre-expansion release #NewTalents #weaponspeed normalization.

 

 

This post is not relevant to Vanilla WoW which stops at 1.12.1.

 

/thread.

[killerduki 54]

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.8.0

• Instant Attacks

The mechanics of most instant melee attacks have been modified to improve item balance. Previously, instant melee attacks did damage based on the damage range of the weapon, plus a bonus for the player's attack power. This bonus was then multiplied by the speed of the weapon. As a result, slow weapons did more damage than was intended, and fast weapons were considered inferior by most players. We have changed the way the attack power bonus is calculated for instant attacks. This change does NOT affect attack power calculations for normal melee attacks. Instead of multiplying by the speed of the weapon, the attack power bonus is now multiplied by a fixed number pulled from the following table:

• Two-handed weapons: 3.3
• Daggers: 1.7
• All other one-handed weapons: 2.4

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 16, 2016 by killerduki

[Pottu 290]

You are posting patch 1.12.2 patch notes.   That is the patch for pre-expansion release #NewTalents #weaponspeed normalization.

 

 

This post is not relevant to Vanilla WoW which stops at 1.12.1.

 

/thread.

Sorry but 1.12.2 is a localization bug fix for the Spanish client. Which is why every vanilla server uses 1.12.1 because that's the last vanilla patch for everyone else.

 

The TBC pre-patch is 2.0.0. It was brough to live realms about a week before the launch of TBC. I remember it well because people went nuts and formed raid groups to farm the mobs in Deadwind Pass near Karazhan since they now dropped Netherweave cloth. When you installed TBC, you installed patch 2.0.1 which enabled the Dark Portal and rest of TBC content.

[Motorbreath 923]

Honestly, I don't see much of a problem here.

Slow two-handers were mainly popularized by PvPers: enh shamans, arms warriors and paladins. With the common logic of "it's better to make more damage while you still can".

Fast weapons still are viable for PvE players. And even are more affordable, because, were they slow and thus more universal (usable in PvP), they would cost more.

Which is good if you're selling, but not as good if you're buying.

So it's kind of balanced actually. Just depends on your perspective.

[Armilus 6]

Damage increase from attack power is normalized on instant attacks but weapon damage is NOT normalized. (Which is correct, this is how it should work)

This means that if you subtract you weapon damage from your instant attacks you will have the exact same damage with any speed of weapon. Slow weapons are still better if you have instant attacks like mortal strike and sinister strike because slow weapons have higher damage per hit.

This means that weapon speed doesn't actually matter. What really matters is the min/max damage of the weapon. Prior to normalization a weapon that did 100-150 damage with a 3.8 speed was better than a weapon that does 110-160 damage with a 2.0 speed. After normalization the weapon with the highest damage is better but with two weapons of the same item level the slower weapon will have higher min/max damage.

I hope that clears things up a bit... slow weapons are not inherently better after normalization.

The reason that many people like vanilla wow over retail is because you can't just pick up any purple item useable by your class and be better. You have to understand the game mechanics and put effort into looking up the best items for your class. In short, the game is a LOT more involved because of things like this.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Armilus

[Pottu 290]

And to confirm, we have weapon speed normalization working properly. So what Armilus wrote above is 100% correct.

[riplip 2]

Thanks to Pottu and Armilus for not shitposting xd.

I understand now.

Edited November 19, 2016 by riplip