Change Hunter epic bow quest timer

[dvergur 0]

Reduce Demon spawns - they are reduced - we dont have time for these crazy respawn hours -> the they shouldn't be reduced in the first place, Nost already catered to the needs of the server pop - > Losing our first born is not acceptable as a price for failure.

 

Yep. Sounds like a standard retail thread

Did you read the link? It's a post from September 11 2006, i.e. patch 1.12.0, i.e. vanilla and he says the respawn is at most 3 hours. The respawn isn't reduced, it's not shorter than Blizzlike. Can this meme please die?

[Shayss 43]

Did you read the link? It's a post from September 11 2006, i.e. patch 1.12.0, i.e. vanilla and he says the respawn is at most 3 hours. The respawn isn't reduced, it's not shorter than Blizzlike. Can this meme please die?

 

"the respawn timer being very long – reportedly about 3 hours"

 

So ... he didn't test it but you will take his word as gospel. ok.

 

Also, the only things that are patch 1.12. is talents if I'm not mistaken? Everything else is following a patched timeline (with the exception of Honor System + BG release)

Ps: Nice agenda you got going here.

[dvergur 0]

"the respawn timer being very long – reportedly about 3 hours"

 

So ... he didn't test it but you will take his word as gospel. ok.

 

Also, the only things that are patch 1.12. is talents if I'm not mistaken? Everything else is following a patched timeline (with the exception of Honor System + BG release)

Ps: Nice agenda you got going here.

No, but you have no sources saying otherwise, and there are no patch notes saying they changed the hunter quest. In short, I have more evidence than you do, but you never were interested in evidence because you were the one with the real agenda. The funny thing is, I wouldn't even mind a 7h cooldown, as long as there wasn't such a long queue.

[Shayss 43]

You don't have evidence. You never did.

 

It isn't 7 hours, it is 3 hours.

 

Your agenda is to change what shouldn't be changed, you disregard and get hostile with people who disagree.

 

Anyway, this thread is pointless. They won't change it again.

 

Especially now that all servers have caps on them.

[dvergur 0]

You don't have evidence. You never did.

 

It isn't 7 hours, it is 3 hours.

 

Your agenda is to change what shouldn't be changed, you disregard and get hostile with people who disagree.

 

Anyway, this thread is pointless. They won't change it again.

 

Especially now that all servers have caps on them.

IF THEY CHANGED IT AT ALL, THEY MADE IT MORE BLIZZLIKE!! You make it sound like that first "change" is wrong, how can you be so dense? We have a post from vanilla, which is going to be the best evidence you will ever find relating to this issue, since nobody is going to record a mob respawning for multiple hours. You are beyond redeemable.

[Shayss 43]

Right back at you.
 

"which is going to be the best evidence you will ever find relating to this issue" , nice.

 

Btw I have a post from back in the day where it states very clearly that if you farm 100 million boars outside of orgrimmar you unlock the event to get TF. You need to kill that many boars in exactly 6 days, 6 hours and 6 minutes (the number of the beast) or the event won't trigger. It has only happened for 5 players ever though.

 

I know.. it doesn't sound right but it's the "only evidence we will ever find relating to this issue".

 

 

 

[dvergur 0]

 

If you had the link this would be incredibly interesting, but you don't, so it's useless.

 

Are you really dim enough to believe that your word of a link is the same evidence as an actual link written in a very serious and professional manner?

 

Furthermore, my link is good evidence. The only other evidence that would be better would be explicit patch notes. But do you know why there doesn't exist more evidence on the respawn timer? BECAUSE BLIZZLIKE MEANS THAT NOBODY CARED ABOUT THE RESPAWN TIMER, IT WAS NOT AN ISSUE! Do you understand why the current state of the quest may be technically Blizzlike, but not really?

[Glenzig 34]

Completely missed the point. The breastplate is time consuming but its not limited to a certain schedule, you can do it at any time that you like. For the bow you NEED to be available 24/7 or else you cannot do it.

I have 3 level 60s on Nost, attended nearly 100 raids, farmed thousands of gold. But I guess I just don't have enough time for the bow.

If you were able to do all that stuff without completing the leaf quest, do you really NEED to get the bow?

The fact that there are a crap ton of Hunters on Nost, because it's a very easy class to play and farm with, doesnt mean all of them deserve an epic bow. Doesn't mean that the quest should be tailored to everyone's individual needs either.

From what I've seen, there is evidence that the spawn timer was 3 hours in vanilla. Well, there you go, it's 3 hours on Nost also. What argument that isnt, "too many in line", or "I don't wanna wait my turn" can anyone give to convince that staff to change it again? I think it would have to be really, really convincing. So far, no one's making anything close to that type of argument.

[Shayss 43]

If you had the link this would be incredibly interesting, but you don't, so it's useless.

 

Are you really dim enough to believe that your word of a link is the same evidence as an actual link written in a very serious and professional manner?

 

Furthermore, my link is good evidence. The only other evidence that would be better would be explicit patch notes. But do you know why there doesn't exist more evidence on the respawn timer? BECAUSE BLIZZLIKE MEANS THAT NOBODY CARED ABOUT THE RESPAWN TIMER, IT WAS NOT AN ISSUE! Do you understand why the current state of the quest may be technically Blizzlike, but not really?

 

Calls me dim. Calls me dense. Believes in evidence written up by some kid with a bit of spare time, who tested nothing at all simply because it's an old post.

 

Accepts it as truth because "written in a very serious and professional manner"

 

let me guess, you have been the victim of scams ...

[dvergur 0]

Calls me dim. Calls me dense. Believes in evidence written up by some kid with a bit of spare time, who tested nothing at all simply because it's an old post.

 

Accepts it as truth because "written in a very serious and professional manner"

 

let me guess, you have been the victim of scams ...

It's obviously someone who has done the quest himself and is in the environment where people are doing these and has a good overall sense of the different aspects of the quests, he's making a guide for ваууs sake.

 

You keep belittling the evidence but it is great evidence, and it's incredibly ironic that you don't seem to have any evidence of your own. I didn't accept anything as truth, I accepted it as the experience of players of the time, which it certainly is and in the absence of better evidence it effectively is truth on this matter.

 

You have contributed nothing to this discussion by the way, every post you've made can be boiled down to "QUESTS SHOULDN'T BE MADE EASIER!", which I hope we can both agree is an absurd notion when the real goal is (a) Blizzlike (experience).

 

If you want to further your stance, which you haven't stated yet, but I assume is a 7h respawn since you really hate the idea of a 3h one, I suggest you find some evidence from the times of patches 1.4-1.12 that actually support your stance. I don't believe you will find it since it is founded on nothing, you are more invested in "Nostlike" at this point rather than Blizzlike.

 

If you were able to do all that stuff without completing the leaf quest, do you really NEED to get the bow?

The fact that there are a crap ton of Hunters on Nost, because it's a very easy class to play and farm with, doesnt mean all of them deserve an epic bow. Doesn't mean that the quest should be tailored to everyone's individual needs either.

From what I've seen, there is evidence that the spawn timer was 3 hours in vanilla. Well, there you go, it's 3 hours on Nost also. What argument that isnt, "too many in line", or "I don't wanna wait my turn" can anyone give to convince that staff to change it again? I think it would have to be really, really convincing. So far, no one's making anything close to that type of argument.

It's not about needing it, but it's a great part of the experience and every hunter who can, should do the quest.

 

Furthermore, any hunter who had the skills to actually kill the demons could in retail vanilla, that is not necessarily the case here, aka. not Blizzlike.

 

Now that we've established that it's not Blizzlike anyway, let's change it from something that attempts to be pedantically Blizzlike and something that emulates the experience.

[Shayss 43]

or ... you know, since you are convinced that this is not how it should be AND since YOU are the one who wants to change stuff, why don't YOU go look at the patch notes to find the proof that it's wrong.

 

If you can find it (you won't) then I will graciously bow out.

 

Untill then, bin your agenda at further modification.

 

Thanks.

[dvergur 0]

or ... you know, since you are convinced that this is not how it should be AND since YOU are the one who wants to change stuff, why don't YOU go look at the patch notes to find the proof that it's wrong.

 

If you can find it (you won't) then I will graciously bow out.

 

Untill then, bin your agenda at further modification.

 

Thanks.

The patch notes say nothing either way. There is no mention of the respawn timer, so where are you going to get it from? Pull a number out of a hat? Do a /roll and put it as that many hours? I don't know how Nost did it, but if they put at 7h they must have had some evidence that I don't, or they just had a vague idea what it should be, such as someone remembering it being 7h, and went with it. This new evidence certainly supersedes the latter.

[Glenzig 34]

It's not about needing it, but it's a great part of the experience and every hunter who can, should do the quest.

Furthermore, any hunter who had the skills to actually kill the demons could in retail vanilla, that is not necessarily the case here, aka. not Blizzlike.

Now that we've established that it's not Blizzlike anyway, let's change it from something that attempts to be pedantically Blizzlike and something that emulates the experience.

You can see why that's a dangers argument to make though right? If one class says that it should be accessible to everyone that plays that class because it's part of the experience, then that argument will start to ease it's way into the other class quests/loot/dropped items/rare mobs.

And the precident will have already been set with the leaf quest. Because they made sure that everyone who played a hunter was able to have the experience of completing the quest.

Look at it from the point of view of a developer. Wold you accept this as an argument if you were running a vanilla server? Is this really a convincing enough argument to change a spawn mechanic that has already been changed previously?

Edited December 14, 2016 by Glenzig

[dvergur 0]

 

I'm not saying it should be accessible to everyone as a matter of fairness, but as a matter of Blizzlike, which should be very convincing.

[Glenzig 34]

I'm not saying it should be accessible to everyone as a matter of fairness, but as a matter of Blizzlike, which should be very convincing.

Pretty much just semantics. Whether as an argument for fairness, or overall experience, the argument proposed is the same.

Also, I never used the word fairness in my post. Not sure why you came back with that?

Edited December 14, 2016 by Glenzig

[dvergur 0]

Pretty much just semantics. Whether as an argument for fairness, or overall experience, the argument proposed is the same.

Also, I never used the word fairness in my post. Not sure why you came back with that?

Oh, I just inferred fairness from the "accessible to everyone" but whatever you meant the motivation was, there is a fundamental difference between fairness and Blizzlike, since we don't care about fairness but Blizzlike is a foundation of the project.

[Glenzig 34]

Oh, I just inferred fairness from the "accessible to everyone" but whatever you meant the motivation was, there is a fundamental difference between fairness and Blizzlike, since we don't care about fairness but Blizzlike is a foundation of the project.

Agreed. Problemme is its already blizzlike. Timers are blizzlike. Mechanics are blizzlike. That's what I'm saying. Any argument past a 3hr spawn timer, since that's what has been confirmed as blizzlike, would be an argument about how it may or may not have been handled by blizzard with a pop the size of Nost. No one really knows. It's not an argument with a solid basis. That's why I was saying, from a development point of view, you would have to have a really solid argument to get me to change it from what it is.

[dvergur 0]

Agreed. Problemme is its already blizzlike. Timers are blizzlike. Mechanics are blizzlike. That's what I'm saying. Any argument past a 3hr spawn timer, since that's what has been confirmed as blizzlike, would be an argument about how it may or may not have been handled by blizzard with a pop the size of Nost. No one really knows. It's not an argument with a solid basis. That's why I was saying, from a development point of view, you would have to have a really solid argument to get me to change it from what it is.

Agreed, but this quest was an absolute mess on Nostalrius, I did it pretty early on in the "queuing" phase so I only had to wait a week with hardcore camping, which wasn't really that bad for me. But as far as I can tell, it only got worse after that, which should provide enough motivation to change the quest mechanics imo. Another option would be to reduce the amount of people doing the quest by reducing the droprate of leaf but I'm guessing people will like this even less.

[SpottedCow 2]

It only says "reportedly 3 hours", so he didn't test it. I had handful of sources saying 30 minutes in now hidden report.nostalrius.org bugtracker. I'm not gonna start webarchive digging every source I had again. I've tried my best with this issue over the period of it's existence. 

 

It also makes more sense when the default elite respawn time is 30 minutes. 

You also said that Nost was missing a bunch of Blood of Heroes spawn points, which it was not; the extra spawn points were added later on.  When I was blood hunting, I had to find a much older version of the map; the spawn points listed in the most recent map before they were removed were wrong.  But the easiest maps to find are those meant for people grinding out "the Insane" achievement, i.e. they were made during WotLK.

That means I'm not buying anything you say without serious backup.  The 3 hour source that Dvergur linked is far more compelling, although as Shayss points out, that source was late in vanilla and Nost follows the patches for everything except talents, meaning numerous things change over the course of roll out.  So it's possible that the timer was shortened during vanilla at some point (wouldn't be the first thing they nerfed late in vanilla).  But I'll buy 3 hours as the correct timer unless someone has some better evidence.  Which means I would be fine with a reduction to like an hour or an hour and a half to account for massive pop on the Nost PvP server.  There's a difference between "here's evidence that this is wrong" and "this is just too tough for poor lil ol me..."

[Glenzig 34]

Agreed, but this quest was an absolute mess on Nostalrius, I did it pretty early on in the "queuing" phase so I only had to wait a week with hardcore camping, which wasn't really that bad for me. But as far as I can tell, it only got worse after that, which should provide enough motivation to change the quest mechanics imo. Another option would be to reduce the amount of people doing the quest by reducing the droprate of leaf but I'm guessing people will like this even less.

Yeah. It was a mess. I played hunter on pvp and I had hoped to try this quest at some point. I started looking into it and found out about the list. Pretty much knew I would never get that bow at that point. That's ok though. It's an epic item. It should take epic effort.

[Celulas 1]

This whole thread just shows me why retail WoW is where it is at today... 
STOP whining... 
Only way to improve this game is by giving it a little more addon support, apart from that its a good game! 
And thats just nit picking at best so harden the ____ up!

[dvergur 0]

This whole thread just shows me why retail WoW is where it is at today... 

STOP whining... 

Only way to improve this game is by giving it a little more addon support, apart from that its a good game! 

And thats just nit picking at best so harden the ____ up!

You have no ваууing clue what this game is about dipshit, we're helping the devs make it better, now contribute or вау off.

[Glenzig 34]

You have no ваууing clue what this game is about dipshit, we're helping the devs make it better, now contribute or вау off.

Better. It's a very subjective word.

[Overtime 6]

You also said that Nost was missing a bunch of Blood of Heroes spawn points, which it was not; the extra spawn points were added later on.  When I was blood hunting, I had to find a much older version of the map; the spawn points listed in the most recent map before they were removed were wrong.  But the easiest maps to find are those meant for people grinding out "the Insane" achievement, i.e. they were made during WotLK.

 

I did the Shen'dralar reputation grind before the Insane was even added into the game files. I know bloods didn't change between vanilla and wotlk at all.

 

On Nostalrius there was only 8 spawns.

For example there's none in Ruins of Andorhal, while you can see there being one in this video... https://youtu.be/UDQyEe06Q-M?t=1826

 

Sadly can't find archived uploaded data object maps http://web.archive.org/web/20060713041535/http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=12938

 

Old coordinates (over 8 spawns) September 22, 2006 http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_of_Heroes?oldid=256101

Old EPL spawn map from 2006 http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/e/e7/Blood-epl.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20061116193049

Comment from 2005 listing more WPL spawns than ever was on Nost https://web.archive.org/web/20070626191901/http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/object.html?wobject=207

All known EPL spawns in wotlk http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Blood_of_Heroes?oldid=1937925 (That WPL map is 2014 retail)

Wowhead confirming wotlk spawns http://www.wowhead.com/item=12938/blood-of-heroes#comments

 

With little search you can find things, you know...

Edited December 15, 2016 by Overtime

[dvergur 0]

Better. It's a very subjective word.

No, by having the discussion we're already helping, regardless of how good our ideas are.