Reflectors Mechanics

[Morathe 5]

Yo. How reflectors are going to work on Elysium? Tell me its working as vanilla and reflects traveling spells like pyro, deathcoil if you activate reflector after they were cast. If you think they shouldn't could you provide valid patch notes stating nerf of it? because i remember pre 1.9 (when I was playing vanilla on retail) they worked like I described. 

[Nstplf 0]

Nah, all mages/lock will told you : reflectors should only reflect if you use it pre cast, they are afraid about dc/pyro reflect :^(

 

tbh, its hard to find a 'vanilla movie' from retail where some one is using reflector on mid flying dc/pryo, but if some one find one, link it plox :^)

[Morathe 5]

I mean I won't argue if someone tells me "you're right it worked like that but was changed in patch 1.10 or sth" but then that would be stated in patch notes from the past right? As to how it used to work when I played I'm 90% sure it used to reflect mid-flight spells. Ofc its a minor issue as if u're lets say a geared hunter and u pop fire reflector that work for 5 sec. If you force that poor pom pyro mage to hold his combo for 5 seconds during which u molest him with aimed shots, multishots and else, he's dead anyway. But it would be kewl if it worked as it used to. 

[Noxm 1]

Reflector work as intend but lag/delay make it more hardu than some other private server !

 

https://youtu.be/s0iXnNHb59I?t=22m0s

 

Also frost reflector dont make imu to frost nova ... and work as intend

Edited December 16, 2016 by Noxm

[Nstplf 0]

Link 2004-2006 vanilla movies, not nostalrius movies

[Morathe 5]

Yes plz dont post non-retail videos as a "proof". Its further confusing the matter. Please use only OFFICIAL patch notes or 1.12.1 videos from retail. Also make sure they are INDEED retail and not some ancient private or just 240p video that simulate retail:P

Edited December 16, 2016 by Morathe

[buttseks 2]

are traps reflected as well?

Edited December 17, 2016 by buttseks

[Xylon666Darkstar 4]

Yes traps should be as well.

[Ravni 2]

You are remembering the mechanics wrong (happens to a lot of people in vanilla wow community!); reflectors in vanilla did not work on spells which were already mid-air. The easy way to research things like this is to look up comments on thottbot in wayback machine - i.e. look at comments on Flame Reflector from 2005-2006:

 

 

http://wayback.archive.org/web/20071206143756/http://thottbot.com/i18638

 

Be aware that this item does NOT reflect *incoming* spells that are already cast once you use the trinket. It only affects spells cast after the reflect buff is active. Like other trinkets, this doesn't reflectt AOE attacks (well, aside from the +FR). Only damage-dealing spells are reflected, you are hoever immune to other non-damage spells (but they are NOT reflected). 

Still a nice trinket when a mage (or three) try to gank you with omfgwtffireballs.

 

 

 

Here are more comments on Shadow Reflector:

 

http://wayback.archive.org/web/20071202014407/http://thottbot.com/i18639

 

 

 

It does not reflect any bolts or balls that are already in the air also does not reflect any dot's and aoe's and if 2 people would turn it on it would just reflect 1 time. 

Hope thiss cleares alot.

 

 

 

 

Also, it's not supposed to reflect on any AOE abilities (but you will still be immune)

 

Priest fear is AOE so it won't refelect. 

That is also why frost reflector is a bit devalued, since the only PvP spell it can reflect is frostbolt.

 

 

 

http://wayback.archive.org/web/20071212105135/http://thottbot.com/i18634

 

 

 

And to answer questions... 

This is how these work. Any spell that is a single target spell hitting you will bounce back to the caster. That means frostbolt, frost shock, Icy enchants, and hunter's freezing traps (for example). 

Anything that is a frost AoE will not bounce back, but you will be immune. This means frost nova, Cone of Cold, Blizzard, etc. So if a mage frost novas while i have this active, I will be immune, but it won't root the mage. However, if he frostbolts me, it will bounce off of me, hit him, damage him, and snare him. 

I've found that the fire reflectors is more useful for reflecting spells, because a lot of frost spells are instant, so you don't have time to activate the reflector. Fire on the other hand has fireball and pyroblast, both of which bounce back and own mages pretty hard. 

Activating a reflector will break stealth. If you want to kill a mage, a pretty good tactic would be to Ambush, Activate Frost Reflector, and then continue your normal damage and/or stun routine. This way you are immune to the frost nova that mages always use when you ambush them, and you can pretty easily have the mage dead before frost nova cools down again.

 

[Morathe 5]

Thanks for links but is it just me or I see comments on those not exactly from 10 years ago? The one on flame reflector is 2.2 years ago. I mean its possible some guys that always played private servers comment on these and claim it to be as it always been, correct? Thats why I'd prefer actually gameplay videos from those times or official patch notes indicating it. I'd stalk those videos but i dont have premium on warcraftmovies and youtube is just a mess.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Morathe

[killerduki 54]

It is written on Engineering Section with details.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Morathe 5]

How about this one 11.20. Its really close and hard to distinguish what was first but I'm sure on Nost if you activated it that late it would not reflect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sj21TAmQ-M I'll try to find more. 

[killerduki 54]

How about this one 11.20. Its really close and hard to distinguish what was first but I'm sure on Nost if you activated it that late it would not reflect. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sj21TAmQ-M I'll try to find more. 

 

Is that your evidence from 2012?

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Morathe 5]

This is Vurtne video recorded in retail vanilla. I don't care who uploaded it or when ;0 Anyway I didn't link it as "proof" but as a question if you would be kind enough to take that intellectual burden and distinguish one from the other mmkay?

Edited December 17, 2016 by Morathe

[Morathe 5]

I'd still vote he activated it faster but it was like 0.1 sec difference. I mean to be completely honest usefullness of being able to reflect mid-flight spells would be narrowed down to max range pom pyro cast, coils with their rather short range would be already hard to reflect so its just more "for science" thread than anything else. 

 

Btw I'm digging vurtne videos and check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgV-FPWuWQk 5:50 epic, he got nature swiftness heal (it was sham right?) just as the solo kicked in. Drool.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Morathe

[Morathe 5]

Duki with all respect, even tho we have our differences from Nost forums... you kinda bring that upon urself by saying фекал like "vurtne video is not valid". Seriously mate you need to re-evaluate what you're saying here and there. What that being said I still haven't found a clear video shot proving what I claimed to remember. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Morathe

[killerduki 54]

Duki with all respect, even tho we have our differences from Nost forums... you kinda bring that upon urself by saying фекал like "vurtne video is not valid". Seriously mate you need to re-evaluate what you're saying here and there. 

Stuffs could be written wrong or right, it is all fine, that's why evidence exist and stuffs, i also could be wrong and i admit stuffs when i got proven wrong.

 

When you talk about my attitude there, first look what that Rat wrote against me insulting.

I am aware of Pottu action after this , but this kid deserve to get nailed as he did against me insulting me over 100 posts around this forum and Nost before i start.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 17, 2016 by killerduki

[Morathe 5]

There is a close call at 2:40 here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4bgggKMvQU Could be that batch thing mentioned before as it was really close again. I'm hunting for some long range pom pyro when its easy so see;P

 

Guys go have a dinner outside of my thread, you can decide on who bends afterwards on pm's. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Morathe

[killerduki 54]

 it's a shame this rat of macedon has to drop in

 

Kiss my dick you potato head.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[El_Risitas 0]

I didn't know those gnomish mind control caps worked in vanilla while in combat. I remember on most freeshards you had to be out of combat to use them, how is it on nostalrius?

[Morathe 5]

Ok after watching 3 parts of vurtne I wasn't able to find a clear shot. He either activated it before or just before cast ended / exactly when it ended (batch thing). I'm wondering then how is it working on elysium then? Its decided on who "was first" server side right? So it might appear that you activate reflector 0.1 second before cast ended but due to lag on your end (server lag) you might still not reflect it because there are no batch emulation in place correct? I remember on Nostalrius I was furious spamming that reflector and clearly seeing animation on me 0.5 or even more before some1 toss that coil at me and I'd still eat its effect. Anyway its still a good protection tool to use preemptively, if u're geared that 5 seconds of opponent not using their shadow spells is enough to destroy them.

[killerduki 54]

Ok after watching 3 parts of vurtne I wasn't able to find a clear shot. He either activated it before or just before cast ended / exactly when it ended (batch thing). I'm wondering then how is it working on elysium then? Its decided on who "was first" server side right? So it might appear that you activate reflector 0.1 second before cast ended but due to lag on your end (server lag) you might still not reflect it because there are no batch emulation in place correct? I remember on Nostalrius I was furious spamming that reflector and clearly seeing animation on me 0.5 or even more before some1 toss that coil at me and I'd still eat its effect. Anyway its still a good protection tool to use preemptively, if u're geared that 5 seconds of opponent not using their shadow spells is enough to destroy them.

 

This thing you explained was working properly in Elysium , AOE was only bugged part (i believe) where person was not Immune to it.

 

In Nostalrius both was "bugged" where AOE was reflected and you could mid cast (flying bolt) reflect ,instead activated it before or just before cast ended.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 17, 2016 by killerduki

[Morathe 5]

No on Nostalrius you could not reflect stuff already cast. Tested in duels with max range fireballs, shadowbolts, frostbolts and pyroblasts.

 

The matter we discuss is if not being able to reflect mid-air spells is indeed "proper". 

Edited December 17, 2016 by Morathe

[killerduki 54]

No on Nostalrius you could not reflect stuff already cast. Tested in duels with max range fireballs, shadowbolts, frostbolts and pyroblasts.

You are right , i stand corrected , AOE like Frost Nova was bugged there , you could reflect it instead only being Immune to it.

 

The matter we discuss is if not being able to reflect mid-air spells is indeed "proper".

According to old Videos , yep it is proper not being able to reflect mid-air, фткун also brought some nice evidence with old logs about it , not sure where his info was written around forum with evidence. 

 

-Edit-

https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=20004&page=4

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 17, 2016 by killerduki

[Morathe 5]

Ait so I feel like confident enough to say reflect was never ment to work on already cast spells but a batch thing made it possible to reflect spells cast at the same time, shortly before/after activating reflect. Do you think it would be nice to have system emulating that possibility? eg adding short window of time after cast when reflector would work? But not to the point when you could reflect spells that nearly touch your face already.