Disable VPN connections to server...

[Holkan 13]

1 minute ago, Shiamorah said:

Mmmm, I don't know why you think there is no difference in ping when you have to connect from your ISP to a VPN that is located across the world, but ok...

Also when choosing a proxy you don't choose one closet to the server you want better ping to you choose the proxy closet to your physical location. If you choose the proxy closet to the server your ping will greatly increase. VPNs are useful for lowering ping if your ISP's route has heavy traffic or takes an inefficient route this doesn't apply too many but you make it sound like it does nothing and that a vpn falsely shows your ping as lower.

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, Holkan said:

Also when choosing a proxy you don't choose one closet to the server you want better ping to you choose the proxy closet to your physical location. If you choose the proxy closet to the server your ping will greatly increase. VPNs are useful for lowering ping if your ISP's route has heavy traffic or takes an inefficient route this doesn't apply too many but you make it sound like it does nothing and that a vpn falsely shows your ping as lower.

A proxy isn't a VPN.

[Holkan 13]

2 minutes ago, Shiamorah said:

A proxy isn't a VPN.

While technically true a vpn is a private proxy server. What do you think a VPN is made of ? proxy servers. 

[Shiamorah 20]

Just now, Holkan said:

While technically true a vpn is a private proxy server. What do you think a VPN is made of ? proxy servers. 

Well, I was thinking of encrypted vs unencrypted. But regardless, I don't think it is hard to do the math that there would be more players using VPNs to break the rules than players using VPNs to bump up their ping. 

[Holkan 13]

2 minutes ago, Shiamorah said:

Well, I was thinking of encrypted vs unencrypted. But regardless, I don't think it is hard to do the math that there would be more players using VPNs to break the rules than players using VPNs to bump up their ping. 

I 100 % agree with you which is why in my first post I said that they should do what kronos does and that is ban VPN's and make people file for exceptions. That way they legit players with vpn's can still play, but we don't have the mess we have now.

[Worldstar 36]

33 minutes ago, Holkan said:

All that being said I still think vpn's should be disabled for the server and they should do what kronos does and that is make people apply for exceptions to connect through a vpn. This will cripple the gold market immensely more then anything else they can possibly do and it will make ban evasion for people using cheats much harder. Some people can unplug their modem for a few hours and get a new IP. For some peoples isp's it takes days of an unplugged modem to change their IP. This way you get rid of a lot of gold farmers and ip bans for cheaters become a lot more effective. If i was someone who played through a vpn for whatever reason I would be more then happy to go through a process to use it if it meant greatly decreasing gold selling and making punishments for cheaters actually mean something.

That's actually a really good suggestion.

[gabrielesani 0]

1 hour ago, Zargoth said:

"For a lot of people ... "

Shouldn't this be "For some people ..." ?

Let's face it, only a small percentage of the connections to these servers is via VPN and of these I'm willing to bet over half of them are gold sellers and other nefarious characters. What it comes down to: do you want a small percentage of the population annoyed or do you want to continue to have everybody annoyed.

 

 

Even if it is a small minority (let's say, 5%), it would still be not fair for them. Statistics means nothing to the individual (and, just for clarification, i don't use VPN). 

Even more it wouldn't be fair since is not their fault if we have this gold seller problem, people are always looking only at the "VPN users" face of the coin: the main problem is people that buy gold: these are the people that would have to be punished. Following your logic if a survey would find that the most gold buyer are in USA, we should ban all incoming connection from USA: still seems fair? 

Finally, if I'm not wrong, service like Battleping use VPN and they do lower your ping.

 

[Holkan 13]

1 minute ago, gabrielesani said:

Even if it is a small minority (let's say, 5%), it would still be not fair for them. Statistics means nothing to the individual (and, just for clarification, i don't use VPN). 

Even more it wouldn't be fair since is not their fault if we have this gold seller problem, people are always looking only at the "VPN users" face of the coin: the main problem is people that buy gold: these are the people that would have to be punished. Following your logic if a survey would find that the most gold buyer are in USA, we should ban all incoming connection from USA: still seems fair? 

Finally, if I'm not wrong, service like Battleping use VPN and they do lower your ping.

 

Which is why they should take kronos approach ban vpn's and make legit players apply for an exception. A much less daunting task then trying to combat gold selling in its current state.

[Zargoth 3]

 

3 minutes ago, gabrielesani said:

Even if it is a small minority (let's say, 5%), it would still be not fair for them. Statistics means nothing to the individual (and, just for clarification, i don't use VPN). 

Even more it wouldn't be fair since is not their fault if we have this gold seller problem, people are always looking only at the "VPN users" face of the coin: the main problem is people that buy gold: these are the people that would have to be punished. Following your logic if a survey would find that the most gold buyer are in USA, we should ban all incoming connection from USA: still seems fair? 

Finally, if I'm not wrong, service like Battleping use VPN and they do lower your ping.

 

You're right, it would be unfair if they couldn't connect any other way. Your logic, however, is to punish the other 95%.

[gabrielesani 0]

1 minute ago, Holkan said:

Which is why they should take kronos approach ban vpn's and make legit players apply for an exception. A much less daunting task then trying to combat gold selling in its current state.

This seems still more reasonable, but its impraticable. I don't know the percentage of VPN users, but I imagine it would be a very huge task, even because every VPN user (gold seller or not) would apply for an exception. Moreover, I think that fighting gold selling is a great way to show to the whole wow private servers community that fighting this guys is possible: it takes time and many people are not "happy" about this, but it's still the right thing to do

[gabrielesani 0]

Just now, Zargoth said:

 

You're right, it would be unfair if they couldn't connect any other way. Your logic, however, is to punish the other 95%.

Ehm, how everyone is punished by the presence of gold seller? I installed spamthrottle on day 2 and NEVER received a single whisper anymore. I don't really see how people are punished. Do you talk about the false positive banned? They are an even more minority than VPN users (like, 0.1 %). A tons of the thread on reddit/forum that says "I was wrongly banned" ended with a GM reporting the exact amount of gold buyed.

[Zargoth 3]

Obviously you are unaware of the overall impact of these gold sellers. It is a lot more than chat spam.

Bottom line: Disabling VPN connections has proven effective.

 

[gabrielesani 0]

Just now, Zargoth said:

Obviously you are unaware of the overall impact of these gold sellers. It is a lot more than chat spam.

Bottom line: Disabling VPN connections has proven effective.

 

Please explain it to me; don't underestimate the power of discussion, you could also be able to convince me that I'm wrong :-)

The only issue that i see is, of course, some flaws in the economy of the server (if people have too much gold, market values drop). But this, in my opinion, should be fixed by banning people that buy gold. After a certain point I hope that buyers will be too afraid to buy gold again, really risking to lose their character/account.

[Zargoth 3]

The discussion has already taken  in place in other threads. It has been established that gold sellers are not good for a server. Search the forums and you will be able to convince yourself.

As for your suggestion that they ban the gold buyers, this is already being done and many unwary new users have been lured into getting themselves banned. This too is not good for the servers.

 

[gabrielesani 0]

2 minutes ago, Zargoth said:

The discussion has already taken  in place in other threads. It has been established that gold sellers are not good for a server. Search the forums and you will be able to convince yourself.

As for your suggestion that they ban the gold buyers, this is already being done and many unwary new users have been lured into getting themselves banned. This too is not good for the servers.

 

Of course gold sellers are not good for a server, but you still can play ignoring them. If people stop to buy, they will eventually leave. 

I know gold buyers are already being banned and, given to it enough time, I think this is the correct and most effective procedure. If you ban VPN, gold seller will find other ways to sell (in fact many gold sellers don't use VPN). Instead if you convince people that buying gold is harmful for their account safety, the problem is solved.

[Kazuma 11]

There's legit players out there who use VPN to play.

Quote

Maintenance extended another 45 minutes as we are implementing a new anti-gold spam mechanic for our players.

All will be fine boys..

[Worldstar 36]

bump

[noob257 36]

10 hours ago, gabrielesani said:

Of course gold sellers are not good for a server, but you still can play ignoring them.

Not if they are controlling the market for certain items and let you pay extremely high prices for them, almost forcing you to buy their gold.

[Syanis 2]

16 hours ago, Shiamorah said:

http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-2576509/reduce-latency-ping-vpn-game-servers-location.html

Verify by a simple Google, VPN services do not improve ping, even though they can appear to. Ping that exists because of distance can never be alleviated besides switching ISPs.

My girlfriend has a VPN. Here is her direct quote on what a VPN is used for: "A mask to keep me harder to catch when I do illegal shit online :)'

That's interesting. I'd like to know then why if I use a VPN like WTFast I go from 350-400ms and obvious spell lag to 250ms and very very little noticable lag. Also that when not using a VPN like WTFast or VyperVpN I could be disconnected during peak time by my sh*t ISP every 20-30 minutes yet if I use the VPN the connection is stable with very few to no disconnects. Google can't seem to explain that.

 

The truth is a VPN won't really do anything if your going from 60ms down to 35ms with a VPN but for those in different countries then the servers they actually do help and a LOT. But hey, feel free to respond with more Google logic or your own as I'd love to hear your excuse.

[Syanis 2]

Now he's another piece of logic for those saying to disable VPN's. Banning NA accounts is proven effective to lessen/eliminate gold sellers because by statistics the majority amount of players buying gold are NA players. Makes sense to me and proven time and time again. So is that really fair or a good solution though just as banning VPNs.

[Worldstar 36]

5 minutes ago, Syanis said:

Now he's another piece of logic for those saying to disable VPN's. Banning NA accounts is proven effective to lessen/eliminate gold sellers because by statistics the majority amount of players buying gold are NA players. Makes sense to me and proven time and time again. So is that really fair or a good solution though just as banning VPNs.

When you have a problem, you get rid of the problem not something that could be a potential source of support for the problem. Also LOL @ your "statistics".

 

If we have a gang selling drugs in the city and causing mass crime, and all of the poor people are buying drugs from the gang would your solution be to kick all of the poor people out of the city so the gang can't make money anymore or to kick the gang out? The answer should be obvious.

[cybaster 31]

This thread is packed to the brim with gold-buyers and accounts owned by gold sellers, all scrambling this way and that to discourage public demand for something that would stop them.

[Worldstar 36]

2 minutes ago, cybaster said:

This thread is packed to the brim with gold-buyers and accounts owned by gold sellers, all scrambling this way and that to discourage public demand for something that would stop them.

There is nearly no legitimate reason somebody should need a VPN to play on here. As suggested before, if you are a rare case where you NEED to use a VPN we should have a process for getting your account proved for VPN usage. Other than that, VPN access should be disabled.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Worldstar

[cybaster 31]

That's a fantastic idea.  Admin approval for individual VPN accounts.

Would create more work for them, though...  I wonder if there's a way to set that up so that they wouldn't have to spend all day denying applications, or worrying about which one was likely to be legit?

[Worldstar 36]

Just now, cybaster said:

That's a fantastic idea.  Admin approval for individual VPN accounts.

Would create more work for them, though...  I wonder if there's a way to set that up so that they wouldn't have to spend all day denying applications, or worrying about which one was likely to be legit?

I was thinking something along the line of approving everyone initially for VPN usage and then making it a more difficult process afterwards. This will approve the gold sellers initially, but they will get banned and then will have to go through the process of trying to get an account approved.

 

We don't want it to be worthwhile for these gold sellers to keep making accounts over and over and we want it to be tedious for them to get an account approved for VPN usage. Besides, it being tedious shouldn't be an issue since you only have to do it once for your account.