Fresh Server Pvp-Set

[Bourbonpie 13]

8 minutes ago, TheRealJindo said:

It's ironic you claim that Taurior is posting that things were too hard on blizzard forums, while you want r14 weapons upgraded with make PVE content easier (at least that's what you're arguing for, you may be playing devil's advocate). 

It may be a small minority in casual guilds, but in hardcore guilds you can expect a shitton of r14 melees, something I would think you would know as GM of a (apparent) hardcore guild. Again, it could be that you are arguing for the server as a whole, but that's not the context he's talking about so you're shifting the argument in that case (using a strawman).

Your last point, that not all top warriors/rogues there are r14 is correct. But if you remove r14 weapons from the R14s that are up there and claim their DPS doesn't change (which is effectively what some people here have been arguing like retards), then you must be delusional. Again, this might not be what you're claiming, but the side defending this point is clearly doing so.

Now, I am all for adding R12/13 upped gear because doing only weapons is a half-measure which makes no sense, and also my guild will have lots of high rankers and therefore I like to profit from this change. But as a decent human being (which I am not, I am self-interested here), I would have chosen for both to be upped at Naxx (because the MAJORITY of the server won't be able to get r14).

Again....catering to the majority of the population was what Blizzard did and look where WoW is now, a shell of it's former self with low Sub numbers (compared to where they used to be) This argument is about the Epic set anyway, not the weapons. Those are already confirmed being updated in 1.6 so idk why you even bring that up. If his context is about DPS rankings in the Guild then he's also delusional - he should be worried about his Guilds progress as a whole, not whether or not he can out DPS someone who put in 100x more time than he did into his character. (Which he will have similar weapons available once AQ40 is released) The differences are not as drastic as these guys are saying they are, Nostalrius knowingly upgraded them early for quite a few reasons, one being that not doing so would kill any competitive PvP on the server.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Bourbonpie

[Taurior 2]

11 minutes ago, Adeline said:

How should I know that you aren't quoting yourself from an earlier post? Citation marks doesn't mean anything in that context. 

You still refuse to give an answer to the real question I've posed to you twice though, so I guess we're done here.

I assume you mean: How should I know that you ARE quoting yourself from an earlier post.

Maybe because I openened a parenthesis, followed by either "Stated here:" or by "Claimed here:" ( see the quote block below, I highlighted where this is stated so that you don't have to put any work into it.). How do quotation marks not mean anything in that context? what is the correct interpretation in that context it's as easy as I can make it without the quote option. they're called Quotation marks for a reason, to quote something.

1 hour ago, Taurior said:

also that BWL weps are not close to equal to HWL weps(stated here: "Again, at the BWL patch (When the weapons are being upgraded) the R14 Weapons are not -that- much better than CTS, Maladath, etc"

I've also stated that AQ weps do not replace HWL weps(claimed here: "Weapons will get replaced in AQ40, not naxx."). I have never stated that HWL weps are a lot better than AQ weps. I even stated that AQ weps are close to HWL weps, but still are a tad worse: " I can be wrong about the weapons but to my knowledge AQ doens't have weps that beat the R14 weps, they're still a tad worse(I'd love to see which wep combo beats HWL in AQ)." 

Anyway.... your apology is accepted.

I don't know what the question is that you asked me twice, I probably overlooked it (if I did, my apologies), skimming through the last page I can't find any that I have not answered. but if you state the question again I'll make sure to answer it to the best of my ability.

 

@bourbonpie.

I am not trolling. I also never QQ about things being to hard, if anything I'd rather have harder PVE content. Getting better gear as early as BWL, as multiple people want, is making the game too easier. you're also the one that wants to go away from how retail vanilla was. You're also not reading the full thread, if you did you would know I would benefit from the gear change too, and that I don't mind that the gear upgrade comes earlier, just not at BWL, it'd be better to do this anywhere from ZG to AQ release, that's up to the devs to decide, if they choose to make the change.

The only thing you're doing with your post is trying to make me look bad by twisting my words. I expected more from a GM of a hardcore guild with the experience you say you have.

[TheRealJindo 1]

1 minute ago, Bourbonpie said:

Again....catering to the majority of the population was what Blizzard did and look where WoW is now, a shell of it's former self with low Sub numbers (compared to where they used to be) This argument is about the Epic set anyway, not the weapons. Those are already confirmed being updated in 1.6 so idk why you even bring that up. If his context is about DPS rankings in the Guild then he's also delusional - he should be worried about his Guilds progress as a whole, not whether or not he can out DPS someone who put in 100x more time than he did into his character. The differences are not as drastic as these guys are saying they are, Nostalrius knowingly upgraded them early for quite a few reasons, one being that not doing so would kill any competitive PvP on the server.

post hoc ergo propter hoc. Just because something happened sequently doesn't mean it happened causally.

If you read back the previous pages you would see that weapons were also discussed, so there you go.

There's also a good reason why PVP and PVE gear was changed in TBC so it wouldn't have as much of an effect on each other. Also, being competitive is good for a guild's health. 

I agree with you, difference isn't drastic if you look at the numbers, but if you look at the length the gear pieces stay good then it becomes a big difference. 

[TheRealJindo 1]

1 minute ago, Wetpine said:

Still waiting for TheRealJindo and Taurior to answer how it affects you.  I'm actually wondering what you want from this.

PVP gear = better dps/healing in raids = easier PVE content. Especially considering how easy nost content already is.

[Bourbonpie 13]

8 minutes ago, Taurior said:

I assume you mean: How should I know that you ARE quoting yourself from an earlier post.

Maybe because I openened a parenthesis, followed by either "Stated here:" or by "Claimed here:" ( see the quote block below, I highlighted where this is stated so that you don't have to put any work into it.). How do quotation marks not mean anything in that context? what is the correct interpretation in that context it's as easy as I can make it without the quote option. they're called Quotation marks for a reason, to quote something.

Anyway.... your apology is accepted.

I don't know what the question is that you asked me twice, I probably overlooked it (if I did, my apologies), skimming through the last page I can't find any that I have not answered. but if you state the question again I'll make sure to answer it to the best of my ability.

 

@bourbonpie.

I am not trolling. I also never QQ about things being to hard, if anything I'd rather have harder PVE content. Getting better gear as early as BWL, as multiple people want, is making the game too easier. you're also the one that wants to go away from how retail vanilla was. You're also not reading the full thread, if you did you would know I would benefit from the gear change too, and that I don't mind that the gear upgrade comes earlier, just not at BWL, it'd be better to do this anywhere from ZG to AQ release, that's up to the devs to decide, if they choose to make the change.

The only thing you're doing with your post is trying to make me look bad by twisting my words. I expected more from a GM of a hardcore guild with the experience you say you have.

...I said I want the gear upgraded in 1.7, which is ZG. The Weapons are already confirmed to be upgraded in 1.6 unless they change that for xyz reason.

[Bourbonpie 13]

10 minutes ago, TheRealJindo said:

post hoc ergo propter hoc. Just because something happened sequently doesn't mean it happened causally.

If you read back the previous pages you would see that weapons were also discussed, so there you go.

There's also a good reason why PVP and PVE gear was changed in TBC so it wouldn't have as much of an effect on each other. Also, being competitive is good for a guild's health. 

I agree with you, difference isn't drastic if you look at the numbers, but if you look at the length the gear pieces stay good then it becomes a big difference. 

If it's upgraded in 1.7 though, it's really not that long. The vast majority of it is replaced in or by AQ40 except a couple pieces I.E. R12 Hunter Gloves

And of course you want your members to be competitive, but that's not the end all be all of it.

Edited January 5, 2017 by Bourbonpie

[prsina 17]

6 minutes ago, TheRealJindo said:

PVP gear = better dps/healing in raids = easier PVE content. Especially considering how easy nost content already is.

Better healing in raids from PvP gear? LUL

Reading this I would assume that all PvE guys have 6/6 r13 sets equipped since it apparently makes such a difference in PvE. I vote to close this topic as everything's been said already and we're just beating a dead horse. Having said that, it's about time we get a decision from the devs will they be following NosT and update the PvP gear earlier or not. Launch is in a bit more than a day and they've promised to announce it before the launch.

Edited January 5, 2017 by prsina

[TheRealJindo 1]

10 minutes ago, prsina said:

Better healing in raids from PvP gear? LUL

Reading this I would assume that all PvE guys have 6/6 r13 sets equipped since it does such a huge difference in PvP. I vote to close this topic as everything's been said already and we're just beating a dead horse. Having said that, it's about time we get a decision from the devs will they be following NosT and update the PvP gear earlier or not. Launch is in a bit more than a day and they've promised to announce it before the launch.

R14 battle mace, something which you should also argue for if you want the gear in ZG.

Edited January 5, 2017 by TheRealJindo

[Taurior 2]

1 minute ago, Bourbonpie said:

...I said I want the gear upgraded in 1.7, which is ZG. The Weapons are already confirmed to be upgraded in 1.6 unless they change that for xyz reason.

I know... and I'm not saying you're the  one that stated this. There've been multiple people that said they want the gear to be upgraded in BWL, That's what I am against, and IF they would upgrade gear at 1.6 I said they should delay the weapon upgrade to a later patch to balance it out. Ofc this is all already stated in the previous posts multiple times.  I also said I know weps are upgraded at 1.6 and you don't have to point that out 1000 times, not sure why you do.

[Bourbonpie 13]

1 minute ago, Taurior said:

I know... and I'm not saying you're the  one that stated this. There've been multiple people that said they want the gear to be upgraded in BWL, That's what I am against, and IF they would upgrade gear at 1.6 I said they should delay the weapon upgrade to a later patch to balance it out. Ofc this is all already stated in the previous posts multiple times.  I also said I know weps are upgraded at 1.6 and you don't have to point that out 1000 times, not sure why you do.

Idk, felt like people kept missing that point and were debating it. Upgrade the Weapons 1.6, Gear 1.7. I think 1.8 is too late, just my opinion. We'll see, they should have an answer either today or tomorrow at the latest.

[prsina 17]

20 minutes ago, TheRealJindo said:

R14 battle mace, something which you should also argue for if you want the gear in ZG.

How many healers will actually go for r14, less than 10 in nost pvp's existence, how is that a problem? Weapons are already set to be updated, the discussion is about the gear e.g. shadow priest being dogshit without the updated set. The r14 weapons are far too rare to be of a concern, check the number of for example r12/13s that will be screwed over with no gear upgrade.

Edited January 5, 2017 by prsina

[prsina 17]

6 minutes ago, snawfu said:

Nost PVP doesn't even have the healing mace/spell damage dagger in, it was scheduled to be added later.

Thank you snawfu, did not know that one! There, another argument OP healing down

[prsina 17]

dev announcement

Edited January 5, 2017 by prsina

[Bourbonpie 13]

Lol rip. Is that for the Blue set as well or just epic set & weapons?

[Taurior 2]

7 minutes ago, Bourbonpie said:

Lol rip. Is that for the Blue set as well or just epic set & weapons?

There's 2 possible interpretations I believe, still kind of a vague announcement imo.

Option 1(how I interpret it): weps will be BWL upgraded, Blue/epic gear together with the weps added in naxx will be after AQ

Option 2: Weps will be BWL, blue/epic gear update after AQ, extra weps stays at naxx

a bit more clarification would be loved :)

[prsina 17]

4 minutes ago, Taurior said:

There's 2 possible interpretations I believe, still kind of a vague announcement imo.

Option 1(how I interpret it): weps will be BWL upgraded, Blue/epic gear together with the weps added in naxx will be after AQ

Option 2: Weps will be BWL, blue/epic gear update after AQ, extra weps stays at naxx

a bit more clarification would be loved :)

Definitely option 1. So, thoughts? Worth it to rank?

[shirsig 18]

Blizzard kept releasing new servers throughout vanilla and they started with the gear upgrades of the active patch at that time afaik so I see no reason to ever bother with the shitty pre 1.4 itemization for the purpose of being blizzlike.

[TheRealJindo 1]

get r14 prepare for Naxx progression with a little edge, get r11 mount

[Taurior 2]

The items that received their update at the BWL patch will continue to receive their update at the BWL patch, and those that originally received their update at the Naxx patch will be moved up as the announcement says.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ElysiumProject/comments/5m948x/elysium_pvp_itemization_update/dc1s5uu/

[Bourbonpie 13]

Does anyone have any links for the pre updated r12/13 gear values? The old pastebin link doesn't work anymore

[Taurior 2]

1 minute ago, Bourbonpie said:

Does anyone have any links for the pre updated r12/13 gear values? The old pastebin link doesn't work anymore

Just posted it in the other forum xD

for warrior: http://web.archive.org/web/20051211003502/http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/itemset.html?setid=384 (scroll through the dates(top of page right side , the arrows) to get the version you want. this one is the unbuffed)

for everything: http://web.archive.org/web/20050528011303/http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/itemset.htm Just ctrl-f to the set you're looking for, 

[Bourbonpie 13]

3 minutes ago, Taurior said:

Just posted it in the other forum xD

xD

Thank you sir

[Barcodebrah 0]

i vote yes to late pvp gear buff

[Larsen 3]

10 hours ago, prsina said:

So, thoughts? Worth it to rank?

In the interest of science and planning, I decided to look at the various sets for warlock (mage sets are also very similar). This is mainly with PvP in mind, but it's still roughly applicable to PvE as well.

This takes into account only the pieces that exist for the PvP set. PvE sets have bracers and belts as well whose stats I ignored. So, 6 pieces in all cases. Set bonuses for the noted stats are counted.

Pre-1.9 R13: 155 stamina, 103 intellect, 153 spell power

T2: 132 stamina, 93 intellect, 187 spell power, 1% crit, 1% hit

Post-1.5 T1: 144 stamina, 102 intellect, 99 spell power, 1% crit, 1% hit

L58 R10: 133 stamina, 83 intellect, 128 spell power

I realize that there's other gear besides tier sets, but that's too much to go into.

 

We can see that pre-1.9 R13 is worse than T2, but not by staggering amounts. It has 23 more stamina, 35 less spell power, and lacks crit and hit but has some useful unique bonuses for PvP. T2 is obviously better, but it will likely take a lot longer (in terms of months, not necessarily hours spent) to get so much T2 whereas PvP gear is obtained three pieces at a time upon ranks 12 and 13. You have to grind more for it but for a shorter period of time. And of course, you can have your R13 before BWL releases, giving you a considerable edge for a while over those who don't.

Pre-1.5 T1 is a total joke, it's worse than dungeon gear so it's not even worth looking at. Post-1.5 T1 is roughly on par with the level 58 R10 set but, again, takes way longer to obtain. R10 is quite easy to reach with a moderate amount of effort and is a BiS option on par with the updated T1 until BWL, and much better than T1 until June; T1 is basically unusable until the AV patch.

R10 is definitely worth getting early on for warlocks. It's mostly BiS (not counting R13) for the first six months, although the chest might get replaced by Robe of the Void. Getting to R10 fast will set you up with a bunch great gear for months. Some of these pieces will probably last you until you get an upgrade from BWL. Absolutely worth doing at the start of the server.

Pre-1.9 R13 is pretty much superior to everything until BWL (chest is so-so but you want the 6/6 bonus), and then you'll still have it for however many months it'll take you to replace the pieces with BWL loot. If you can get R13 like four months after launch, you'll have vastly better gear than anyone else until at least August and, more likely, a couple months further as nobody just gets T2 handed to them when BWL releases.

By the end of this year, it will no longer be particularly compelling to start grinding for R13, but the option remains for those who have no interest in joining a raid guild. You'll still be relatively competitive in PvP with R13 and some pug raid gear, but those who have full BWL gear will have an edge over you. Those who ranked up early on will have benefitted bigly from it for the better part of a year before it grows old.

To those who claim that ranking up will be "pointless," I'd say that's not really the case, although it will stop being grotesquely lucrative toward the end of the year. Until then, it'll make you one of the best-geared players on the server. You just don't get to stay that way for most of vanilla unless you eventually start raiding again, which I find entirely reasonable. It's a silly feature of NostPvP that people have been enjoying the benefits of BiS PvP gear since 2015.

Is that worth putting in 12h/day for a while? Depends how you look at it. If PvPing is what you want, it's hard to complain that you can get very decent gear just from PvPing. The rank system is flawed, that's nothing new, but the rewards remain solid for a good while and will make you the best geared dude until winter 2017 when people raiding BWL will begin to have better gear.

All in all, it seems very much in line with the spirit of WoW: if you put in a lot of work early on, you get to enjoy the benefits of having the best gear until more content releases and you have to get back to working on it like everyone else. If you get it quickly, the R13 gear will still be exceptionally good for like six months. That seems worth it to me, if you were gonna put so many hours into the game anyway.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Larsen

[Crixx 2]

 

Quote

R10 is definitely worth getting early on for warlocks.

Sadly the warrior pre update r10 is really garbage you loose about 120 AP , 1,4% Crit and 1% Hit in trade for 3 Stam and 1% Parry lul.

Kinda discouraged to play rank warrior now. Might swap over to caster since the stats arent that ваууed on their sets.