Ret Pala

[simppi 3]

1 hour ago, Joogo said:

Hello friend,

Let me start off by saying, great job choosing to become a Ret Pally. I've always been a Ret pally. Even when the game was first released many many years ago. I used to get a lot of hate from groups, guilds and people alike. The road you are choosing to walk is a very narrow and hard road for sure, but don't be mislead by negative comments. Leveling from 1-60 as a Ret Pally will be challenging, but once you hit 60, that's where the magic begins and you can start working on builds to fully dial in your play style.

As far as DPS goes. It's not about the pure numbers "you" put out, but more importantly the numbers "others" put out because of you. That's who you are. You support your fellow DPS and make sure they are able to squeeze every ounce of damage out they possibly can.

Keep fighting the good fight and don't give up. The joy from playing a Ret Pally is worth it.

Retri can't do anything to buff other dps that a holy pala can't already do.

[Joogo 0]

5 hours ago, simppi said:

Retri can't do anything to buff other dps that a holy pala can't already do.

You're correct. We can't offer any other buffs that a Holy Pally can't, but I didn't say buffs. I said support. Meaning, to support others the best way we can while maintaining damage.

Most people roll a Ret Paladin as hope to do damage and only damage and completely forget the role of a Ret Pally. Nothing wrong with either play style. I personally prefer to utilize every skill I have to support others around me while still focusing on doing damage. 

Whatever path you choose is yours to make. 

[simppi 3]

Just now, Joogo said:

You're correct. We can't offer any other buffs that a Holy Pally can't, but I didn't say buffs. I said support. Meaning, to support others the best way we can while maintaining damage.

Most people roll a Ret Paladin as hope to do damage and only damage and completely forget the role of a Ret Pally. Nothing wrong with either play style. I personally prefer to utilize every skill I have to support others around me while still focusing on doing damage. 

Whatever path you choose is yours to make. 

What support are you talking about? Retri can't do any support that holy can't.

[Joogo 0]

49 minutes ago, simppi said:

What support are you talking about? Retri can't do any support that holy can't.

You're totally missing what I'm saying. Ret Pallies can do dps and Holy Pallies can not. Sure, Holy Pallies can heal a lot better than Ret Pallies, but that's all they can do. Ret Pallies can off heal and still do decent damage.  I'm not trying to prove a point here. I'm just simply stating that Ret Pallies is a class of its own and can be very beneficial to groups. 

[simppi 3]

35 minutes ago, Joogo said:

You're totally missing what I'm saying. Ret Pallies can do dps and Holy Pallies can not. Sure, Holy Pallies can heal a lot better than Ret Pallies, but that's all they can do. Ret Pallies can off heal and still do decent damage.  I'm not trying to prove a point here. I'm just simply stating that Ret Pallies is a class of its own and can be very beneficial to groups. 

If you are healing you aren't dpsing, and holy can do about as good dps as a retri can heal, xept in 1.9 and on, sure in a 5man it's nice to have a dps that can heal also, but it's quite situational.
In raids it's basically not an option.

[Joogo 0]

59 minutes ago, simppi said:

If you are healing you aren't dpsing, and holy can do about as good dps as a retri can heal, xept in 1.9 and on, sure in a 5man it's nice to have a dps that can heal also, but it's quite situational.
In raids it's basically not an option.

In a raiding environment, I completely agree with you. Raids normally have enough healing to support the raid without a Ret Pally having to help heal. If a Ret Pally has to heal in a raid, then it's basically a wipe. I'm just explaining to him the importance of a Ret Pally in every day occurrences. Solo, Group and PvP play. We are a support class. Trick of all trades and a master of none. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by Joogo

[killerduki 54]

I recommend everyone to ignore the trolls that are preaching Retri Can't dps.

Yes retribution can do 800 dps if he play and gear up/ench/talents properly.

Yes retribution can also offtank if needed if he switch to tank gear.

Yes Retribution can survive very good when situation is out of control and save the raid.

Yes Retribution can assist cleanse/heals when needed.

Yes Retribution can do extremely well burst and AoE thanks to Vengeance , which helps LOT killing mobs.

 

What Holy can't do compare to Retribution Paladin:

Can't do 800 dps .

Can't offtank properly because his threats will be extremely low and no Sanctity/Vengeance or Seal of Command for good threats.

Can't do extremely high AoE because they don't have Vengeance and Sanctity Aura for that.

Can't burst dps to Mobs to kill them fast in situation.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Theloras 108]

This is how we support AND boost others' DPS at the same time in a way that no Holy Paladin can do:

JUDGEMENT OF THE CRUSADER STACKING

Since I was able to prove that multiple ranks of the same Judgement are in fact blizzlike in Vanilla and not bug abuse, we are permitted to put up all 6 ranks of Judgement of the Crusader for a grand total of +631 holy damage (provided that the Rets have PvP gloves which add +20 to JotC).

JotC R1 +46 Holy Damage

JotC R2 +57 Holy Damage

JotC R3 +80 Holy Damage

JotC R4 +115 Holy Damage

JotC R5 +149 Holy Damage

JotC R6 +184 Holy Damage

If your guild allows multiple Ret Paladins, then I highly suggest that you stack JotC debuffs and use SoC for max +Holy Dmg to the target. In addition to this, I would recommend that you also recruit Discipline Priests who want to spam Holy Fire and Smite to melt some serious unmitigated and unresistable holy face - and don't forget, the Rets bring Sanctity Aura which add another +10% holy dmg to the Disc Priests' damage as well.

FYI for reference:

Re: Multiple Judgement of Crusade should not be Bannable

by Nano » Fri Nov 06, 2015 11:25 am

No one has been banned for this and they won't because it's working as intended. This whole thread has run its course.
https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=25589&start=30#p182280

TLDR - the more Rets you have the more damage you all do as a whole - including Smite Priests as well who can do stupid amounts of damage as well.

[Drehar 2]

Man... imagine the threat a Prot paladin would have if Crusader was stacked on the target. Prot paladin hitting for 400+ Holy damage a swing. Would be interesting to see a raid that used this as a normal strat, run with All paladins and priests for DPS and healing.

[Theloras 108]

1 hour ago, Drehar said:

Man... imagine the threat a Prot paladin would have if Crusader was stacked on the target. Prot paladin hitting for 400+ Holy damage a swing. Would be interesting to see a raid that used this as a normal strat, run with All paladins and priests for DPS and healing.

like this?

:)

[killerduki 54]

4 hours ago, Drehar said:

Man... imagine the threat a Prot paladin would have if Crusader was stacked on the target. Prot paladin hitting for 400+ Holy damage a swing. Would be interesting to see a raid that used this as a normal strat, run with All paladins and priests for DPS and healing.

That is like 1000 TPS only by Autoattacks and SoR ;) , i doubt any1 would do that.

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Drehar 2]

Yeah something like that I would dedicate 2 groups to holy power, but I can't help but feel like so many auras are wasted puting more then 1 paladin in a group.

You would have only 1 paladin healing and the rest would be priests and druids. You would have 1 prot paladin 1 holy paladin and 5 Ret Paladins
The holy paladin would be in whatever group and the other 6 paladins would be 2 over 3 groups.With FR and Sanct aura.

 

[Tharidor 1]

I am surprised how this quickly turned into a hot debate about how viable a retri paladin is.

Let me start by pointing out that there are videos out there with retri Paladins (from back in the day of 2005-2006) on youtube. Some of which are raiding in Naxxramas (which everyone likes to point out as the holy grail of vanilla) - yet none of their efforts are taken seriously, because people will not debate with you on facts, and rather shit post a Retri Paladin whenever they can "lolretri".

The videos I've seen of Retri raiders aren't bad - they're sometimes top 10 on the meters, out of how many dpsers? close to 30, and these are also Naxx raiding Paladins. No matter what anyone says, they can't deny the videos that serves as proof on youtube that they aren't "complete shit" as many will want to point out.

However... if your goal is to be the number one dps in any guild, then I am sorry to say this, but you will never take that spot. You'll also run in to a huge wall of hate and flame for even trying to be Retri Paladin by most morons. So yet again, you have to prove yourself, and if I was in a position to decide between a slacking mage or a dedicated retri Paladin, then I'd choose the Paladin.

Nightfall is also a decent weapon that any raiding guild will want, and on a retri Paladin it's quite good.

Edited January 21, 2017 by Tharidor

[killerduki 54]

2 hours ago, Tharidor said:

Nightfall is also a decent weapon that any raiding guild will want, and on a retri Paladin it's quite good.

The problem with this kind of attitude is :

1- Nightfall will barely increase 300 overall Raid DPS.

2- Paladin will do 100 instead 900 DPS.

See the compensation : 900-300= loosing 600 DPS by doing that.

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Tharidor 1]

8 minutes ago, killerduki said:

The problem with this kind of attitude is :

1- Nightfall will barely increase 300 overall Raid DPS.

2- Paladin will do 100 instead 900 DPS.

See the compensation : 900-300= loosing 600 DPS by doing that.

/Kind regards Killerduki

With all do respect, I'd love to know where these numbers are coming from. Because it sounds to me that you're pulling them out of your arse.

If you meant to say that a Paladin with Nightfall will have a lower damage count, than with a high tier weapon, then just say so. If that's what you meant, then I agree. But Nightfall is a wonderful weapon to have during the -lower tiers- of raiding. I am in green's and blue's on my paladin atm, and I pull around 200-300dps during dungeons at the moment. My weapon is Arcanite reaper, which is a sad cry from the better weapons that Vanilla has to offer.

[simppi 3]

Nightfall compared to The Unstoppable Force, which is pre-raid bis for retri:
10 less top dmg
0.3 faster speed
42 less ap
2% less crit
It is much worse than even this easily obtainable weapon.

[Theloras 108]

FYI - Nightfall is currently at its original swing speed of 3.2 making it unsuitable for use with Seal of Command

It is updated in a later Vanilla patch to 3.5

However, a Ret Paladin stacking spell damage and using Seal of Righteousness will not do a good amount of DPS but they also have the highest uptime of any class/spec for Nightfall debuff now that SoR is triggering weapon/trinket/enchant procs.

My Nightfall "Spell Vulnerability" uptime when using SoR is insane to the point that I am getting at least 1-3 procs on each trash mob and multiple procs on every boss as well.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Theloras

[Bladepower 0]

On 2017/1/15 at 10:23 AM, Wilexane said:

Ret is purely RNG, does poor dps and bring no value whatsoever, you can't off tank, your healing is very shitty if you're using proper ret gears.

You bring absolutely nothing that a holy paladin can bring, Nightfall can be argued, but off tank with it are probably better anyway.

i don't want to break anyone dream, but that the truth. :(, if you find a guild that accept you, good for you, but you'll be nothing but a liability.

First of all, sorry for my bad English.

What you say is theoretically correct, but also practically wrong, I'll try to explain better.

We all know from 12 years Vanilla ret dps in low compared to the 2 best melee classes fury war and combat rogue (with same gear/consumables/player skill), but we also know that 40 men raid is not easy to full, even for top guilds, and not all 40 players are super pro elite players.

If you mind if a dedicated player ret deserve a spot in raid, the answer is yes, assuming we're talking about Elysium content (MC and Ony), you can actually clear all even with a full hybrid class raid (Of course will take far away more times), if you talk about optimization and wanna clear the content in 20 mins with an elitist raid, first of all you should play horde and take as a dps only Rank 14 warrior and rogue and give them Windfury.

Any other normal or even more dedicated guild/raid can always have a spot for a good ret, and as already someone say, if you wipe at MC, I'm 100% sure is not because you bringed a ret in raid.

For the math part about ret dps there are plenty of posts you can check by yourself (useless I write here all again), and everyone can confirm that ret can stay top 10 dps (thx to the low dedication of other classes players, like no consumables, often afk/autoshot etc etc.)

So in conclusion, unless you have a full raid of a rank 14 war/rogue dedicated players, a good ret will be always welcome.

[Smiter 9]

On ‎5‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 0:35 AM, Bladepower said:

First of all, sorry for my bad English.

What you say is theoretically correct, but also practically wrong, I'll try to explain better.

We all know from 12 years Vanilla ret dps in low compared to the 2 best melee classes fury war and combat rogue (with same gear/consumables/player skill), but we also know that 40 men raid is not easy to full, even for top guilds, and not all 40 players are super pro elite players.

If you mind if a dedicated player ret deserve a spot in raid, the answer is yes, assuming we're talking about Elysium content (MC and Ony), you can actually clear all even with a full hybrid class raid (Of course will take far away more times), if you talk about optimization and wanna clear the content in 20 mins with an elitist raid, first of all you should play horde and take as a dps only Rank 14 warrior and rogue and give them Windfury.

Any other normal or even more dedicated guild/raid can always have a spot for a good ret, and as already someone say, if you wipe at MC, I'm 100% sure is not because you bringed a ret in raid.

For the math part about ret dps there are plenty of posts you can check by yourself (useless I write here all again), and everyone can confirm that ret can stay top 10 dps (thx to the low dedication of other classes players, like no consumables, often afk/autoshot etc etc.)

So in conclusion, unless you have a full raid of a rank 14 war/rogue dedicated players, a good ret will be always welcome.

^^^^^^ Agreed

My guild runs 2 rets and we are currently 7/9 AQ40. So definitely room for a ret pally in raids!

[Theloras 108]

44 minutes ago, Smiter said:

^^^^^^ Agreed

My guild runs 2 rets and we are currently 7/9 AQ40. So definitely room for a ret pally in raids!

yea, but you're a badadin 

[Bladepower 0]

6 hours ago, Smiter said:

^^^^^^ Agreed

My guild runs 2 rets and we are currently 7/9 AQ40. So definitely room for a ret pally in raids!

Two is even better, if there debuff spot for 2 Judgment of Crusader (with different ranks), probably ret can go up some position in the meter hehe.

[Smiter 9]

We run 1 judgement of crusader and 1 judgement of wisdom/light depending on fight. Ret can already be up on the meter with just that. not top dps ofc but I usually pull anywhere from 12-5 depending on the fight