Horde Mage Beerwizzard ninjas Stockade Pauldrons

[Justme 9]

Just now, Oakenlix said:

Right.

Not quite realistic in pug environment.

Don't pug people from unknown guilds.

[Oakenlix 79]

1 minute ago, Justme said:

Don't pug people from unknown guilds.

Oh really?

So each and every dungeon or raid pug ever made was a mistake? You should tell those people!

 

[Justme 9]

Just now, Oakenlix said:

Oh really?

So each and every dungeon or raid pug ever made was a mistake? You should tell those people!

 

I never said that.

[Oakenlix 79]

Just now, Justme said:

I never said that.

You implied it I assume, because if not, then your previous post makes no sense.

I said that having no "Greed" button would be bad for pug BoPs. You said we shouldn't do pugs. But unless you suggest nobody should ever do pug raids/dungeons, what's the point you're making?

Pugs exist, "Greed" is useful for pugs. 

[Justme 9]

Just now, Oakenlix said:

You implied it I assume, because if not, then your previous post makes no sense.

I said that having no "Greed" button would be bad for pug BoPs. You said we shouldn't do pugs. But unless you suggest nobody should ever do pug raids/dungeons, what's the point you're making?

Pugs exist, "Greed" is useful for pugs. 

I tried to imply that pugs from known guilds can be trusted with disenchanting. I didn't say never pug

[Oakenlix 79]

2 minutes ago, Justme said:

I tried to imply that pugs from known guilds can be trusted with disenchanting. I didn't say never pug

Yeah they can, so what about all the other, random pugs?  It won't work well. 

I don't think we really should be arguing about the "Greed" option, it has its uses and there's no reason to remove it, let alone the fact that nobody would actually do that.

[Justme 9]

5 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

Yeah they can, so what about all the other, random pugs?  It won't work well. 

 

I don't do anything with other random pugs. They can form their own group with their own rules.
And no, they can't. They risk getting gkicked as you can just /w an officer about it.

 

5 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

I don't think we really should be arguing about the "Greed" option, it has its uses and there's no reason to remove it, let alone the fact that nobody would actually do that.

False. The greed button on BOE drops has literally no use. All it does is create confusion and drama.
"Nobody would actually do that"-> In a development scrumteam it's up to the product owner to evalulate value and effort. I just told you the value but I don't know much about the effort required because I ain't a programmer.

Edited February 8, 2017 by Justme

[Oakenlix 79]

6 minutes ago, Justme said:

False. The greed button on BOE drops has literally no use. All it does is create confusion and drama.

I said "has its uses" which namely are BoP drops. It saves people from the hassle of manually determining who needs the item or who should get it if nobody does. Nothing I said there was false.

Just because it's not useful for BoE doesn't mean it should be removed, and as I said nobody would even do that in the first place. If you doubt that, go ahead and make a suggestion. 

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Oakenlix

[Justme 9]

12 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

I said "has its uses" which namely are BoP drops. It saves people from the hassle of manually determining who needs the item or who should get it if nobody does. Nothing I said there was false.

Just because it's not useful for BoE doesn't mean it should be removed, and as I said nobody would even do that in the first place. If you doubt that, go ahead and make a suggestion. 

 

And my Original post mentioned removing the Greed button from BOE drops. It's ok to stay on BOP

[Rapteg 0]

It's just laughable how people can't grasp that Stockade Pauldrons is the same fucking thing for a mage as Elemental Mage staff, he will go to AH, sell Pauldrons and buy Staff using these money + some extra. So, rolling need on that is perfectly acceptable, because by selling item on AH you get money equal for how valuable an item is, instead of vendoring it, when you get, like 1/10th of how valuable item is. The whole group worked towards completing dungeon, the whole group can benefit from an item in the same way (because warrior equipping this item right away is equal to him going to AH, buying it and equipping right away, it by no stretch of imagination is "more valuable" for him because he can use it "RIGHT NAO"). Heck, he could even mail it to his alt warrior, or give it to his guildie. It's a fucking BoE, they exist like that for exactly this reason - to be able to trade them, it's their purpose. If you need it as a performance boost - you buy it, or build a dedicated group to farm them for you.

I used to play on warsong EU and common rule of the thumb was "roll need on BoE", now, being an adult and researching into this topic i understand that it's the only right decision if you base it on "prisoners dilemma". You don't roll "greed" on BoE, because you effectively "pass" on them, since there will be always someone to "need" on it.

If the tank in question would really need them, he would farm DMN first to get Bulky Iron Spaulders, instead of his shitty greens or buy Stockade Pauldrons off AH. But he didn't, so he didn't really cared about having a green item in his shoulder slot for so fucking long.

There were two things that group should do to prevent that:

1) Vote for "do we roll need on BoE, or give it to those who can use it?", then clarify about being-able-to-use-them and benefitting-from-using-them-on-the-current-run, so you won't end up with hunters taking all BoE agi leather, or "well these tanking pauldrons are BiS pre-raid gear and i'm a warrior too so i roll for it too".

2) Warrior should call dibs on these shoulders and everyone have to agree.

3) Warrior should pay mage for these pauldrons, mage could give him a discount and sell it for, say, 150 gold.

 

But instead, warrior demanded a mage to give up pauldrons and started terrorizing him, and what we do with terrorists? We don't negotiate with them. Even if this terrorist will try to disrupt your daily gameplay, i'm with you random alliance mage that i won't ever meet, you are fighting a good cause against bunch of ignorant and entitled players.

And fuck. My. Life. People can't grasp who ninjas are. 

В 30.01.2017 в 18:38, фткyн сказал:

Okey we have essence of fire dropped, and mage roll need, arguing that he need it for 30sp on weep, and so? All party members tell him: hey!  stop needing on this! 

If i was this mage that needs 30sp i would gladly pay AH price if you happen to roll it if i needed it RIGHT NAO and couldn't buy it before on a fucking AH.

В 30.01.2017 в 22:02, Beerwizzard сказал:

And only 2 items have a world drop. But at least something.

Anyway im stil sure that blizzard started changing the loot system in wotlk only because of couple pieces of gear. Whats they've been waiting for so many time?

And i still dont remember any pre raid bis boes at wotld (the time when they started changing the system). Maybe because i've came to the retail only om the 2nd half of wotlk, duno.

Anyway enjoy vanilla experience :)

Actually blizzard changed the loot system to stop people from rolling need on everything. Newcomers had no chance to get their hands on dungeon gear because it was automatically (thanks to some community-made addons) rolled "need" on by raid-geared players (often for DE).

В 31.01.2017 в 00:20, The Fapmonsoon сказал:

Guys, seriously ignore all 3 of these idiots. They feel entitled to items because they are GOLD not ITEMS. there is no way to get through to them because they follow liberal logic "If you don't agree with my twisted and warped sense of truth on this, you are wrong". stop feeding these trolls. They are exactly that.

The only one "entitled" here is the OP who demands others to handle gear to him without offering anything back after he lost a roll. Also, apparently, loot rules were included in that run - all gems go to a tank. Nothing about BoE epics. Speak about greed, when tank reserves randomly dropped GEMS for himself, and the whole group AGREES to that, then he demands other player to handle his piece of loot (which he fairly won by rolling on it) or face SOCIAL JUSTICE OF WORLD OF WARCRAFT! This is just laughable.

В 31.01.2017 в 15:04, Oakenlix сказал:

That's great, you're trying to be constructive, I appreciate it. 

Well, if the 15% auction cut is the problem, allow me to resolve it - it's actually 5%, not 15%, so it's quite negligible. But nice try though!

In this case, tank could ask for 15% (5%) discount for these pauldrons - he will pay 255(285) gold instead of 300 and mage will get same amount of money. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Rapteg

[Rapteg 0]

snip

Edited February 9, 2017 by Rapteg
Multiposting

[Justme 9]

Wouldn't it make more sense if everyone pressed Greed instead of Need? 

Oh right, you don't wanna press Greed because you're afraid someone else will hit Need.

It's like having a gun to protect yourself from others having a gun.

[Roax 3]

Wouldn´t it be the fairest thing to do, to evaluate the actual AH-price for an high-valued item, then give any member of the group the

possibilty to buy the item from the group, which means every other group-member gets 25% of the price. If nobody wants the item or is too

short on gold, it will be sold and afterwards all five group-members will get 20% of the earned gold. Compilacted & you got to trust each other, I

know. But doing it this way, everybody would at least get monetary gain. 

 

Easiest way is to get a consens about loot-rules before a run. If that didn´t happen, there´s the possibilty to chat immediatly "everybody roll need"

and discuss afterwards, what to do. As there are five people, you are able to vote for the loot-rules.

 

Although the need-faction has a point based on pure logic and simplicity, I would have greeded, just because of the social aspect of it. No offense

to the need-faction, but the best about vanilla, was finding friends to play with and having a not too anonym server community. And to me,

greeding, if I´m not in need of that special item, and happily granting it (to?) somebody else, is a big part of playing together. 

 

Neverthelees after reading this thread, I would demand the winner/"needer" of a boe-item (if the loot-rules were set to greed) to equip

it right away. If he won´t do it, there will be a blacklisted player more on my list. And I will ask for the loot-rules before a run, just to avoid

drama later on.

 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Roax

[zlord 0]

people that dont see both ways as "monetary gain" or greed

warrior saves 400g as to not have to buy   = monetary gain = greed (not having to spend his 400g)

mage gets 400g for selling                         = monetary gain = greed (gaining 400g)

 

both end up at the same spot

with the difference that in this topic one is aware of this while the other isnt

[rikkisix 0]

Aren't these BIS till like T2 for a prot war? 

[Beerwizzard 13]

18 часов назад, rikkisix сказал:

Aren't these BIS till like T2 for a prot war? 

Kinda like that

[Justme 9]

Its 400g for the warrior and 380g for the mage.

It's GOLD FOR EVERYONE so obviously not greed but need

[Beerwizzard 13]

6 минут назад, Justme сказал:

Its 400g for the warrior and 380g for the mage.

It's GOLD FOR EVERYONE so obviously not greed but need

What stops the warrior from buying the shoulders from someone (not thru the ah)? I realy start thinking that you are retarded.

В 10.02.2017 в 17:17, zlord сказал:

people that dont see both ways as "monetary gain" or greed

warrior saves 400g as to not have to buy   = monetary gain = greed (not having to spend his 400g)

mage gets 400g for selling                         = monetary gain = greed (gaining 400g)

 

both end up at the same spot

with the difference that in this topic one is aware of this while the other isnt

Such people restore my fauth in humanity. I'm realy glad that you exist guys.

[Justme 9]

1 minute ago, Beerwizzard said:

What stops the warrior from buying the shoulders from someone (not thru the ah)? I realy start thinking that you are retarded.

 

Nothing stops him. Thats why I said everyone should roll need. Can't you read?

[Beerwizzard 13]

Только что, Justme сказал:

Nothing stops him. Thats why I said everyone should roll need. Can't you read?

 

14 минуты назад, Justme сказал:

Its 400g for the warrior and 380g for the mage.

It is the same amount of gold for a warrior and a mage.

If it is 400g for a warrior then its 400g for a mage

[Oakenlix 79]

3 minutes ago, Beerwizzard said:

 

It is the same amount of gold for a warrior and a mage.

If it is 400g for a warrior then its 400g for a mage

He's just assuming a mage would spend 20g on AH fee. You guys have nothing to argue about.

[Justme 9]

Just now, Beerwizzard said:

 

It is the same amount of gold for a warrior and a mage.

If it is 400g for a warrior then its 400g for a mage

Uh no, because the mage will have to spend time to sell the item. Buying the item takes time aswell, but not nearly as much as you can just walk to the AH and doubleclick. The mage can use the AH to sell, but it'll be a discount. If he doesn't use the AH he'll have to advertise and walk to the buyer. Time that could be spend getting more gold.
Ofcourse he could sell the item to the group he's in but it's only fair to assume the mage would give a discount to that group.

Not that any of it matters. It's gold to everyone so everyone should need. How much gold to each individial doesn't matter.

[Beerwizzard 13]

3 минуты назад, Justme сказал:

If he doesn't use the AH he'll have to advertise and walk to the buyer. Time that could be spend getting more gold.

He can also ask a buyer to come to his location o just CoD it. The argument about  time is rediculous.

[Beerwizzard 13]

9 минут назад, Oakenlix сказал:

He's just assuming a mage would spend 20g on AH fee. You guys have nothing to argue about.

Thats why i said that you can avoid ah

[Justme 9]

16 minutes ago, Beerwizzard said:

Thats why i said that you can avoid ah

Still spending time tho. Time the warrior wouldn't spend.

Not that it matters.