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And you go ban when the guys afk in BG ? i report 3 men and u don't ban it !

 

open your eye's you kill this server

Edited by waldo

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12 minutes ago, kalantal said:

I think this is where most of the anger is coming from.

The GMs said that there was not going to be any changes made to the current system (3 weeks ago) without a notice.

Today, 60+ people wake up to a ban, and all of us holding at 0 honor got decay (because we were avoiding this shitshow.)

The communication has been atrocious, and when it comes to high bracket PvP, we're talking about hundreds of hours lost.

Dodging four premades at one time has not been happening for years

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Good, if you aren't willing to pvp then DON'T QUEUE FOR A BG. The dodging has completely bastardized the vanilla pvp system and it's sickening. Get rekt dodgers

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Same people I noticed queuing in small groups and just standing AFK if horde even remotely put up a fight - totally shitting on all the other ally players in the game.

Ban well deserved, play the damn game or gtfo

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3 hours ago, Bieb said:

i'm still wondering how on earth Cannabized wasn't banned for 7 days. He was literally with them the whole time rofl, rip.

Small oversight, now fixed.

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37 minutes ago, Pottu said:

Small oversight, now fixed.

Amen. I have nothing more to say.

 

ps.   thx

Edited by Bieb

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A well deserved ban, good job fellas!

now children, this is why you don't stream yourself dodging!

Nothing of value was lost; Earlsimmons is a McLovin looking nugga and his clique of friends ( and the chinese) don't deserve any special treatment. 

 

8 hours ago, kalantal said:

Can you please address the slight of hand involving the RP decay?

I would also like to hear some input on this.  

--
ps

@Slicy fite me

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What is wrong with RP decay ? You should decay regardless of being in pvp playerbase (> 15 HKs) or not afaik ? Freezing your RP/ranks should not be possible ?

Come gulch later I fite u. We 9 mins 3 cap full undead team with no healers 4 melees was fun ))

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14 hours ago, BobBob said:

The biggest problem is the sheer lack of communication from the GM's, they could of just said "Hey, continue doing this and you'll end up with a temp ban". This "dodging" has been happening for years on retail & other private servers, and is probably still going on now on Anathema regardless.

While the lack of communication does suck, this was most likely done as a warning to everyone. The banned dodgers are basically being held up by their toes and on display for any would-be dodgers in the future. So going "hey were gonna start looking into people dodging" would just cause the dodgers to back off from it for a little bit but would ultimately be forgotten about and ignored by the vast community. This is more of a rude awakening for those who have/would abuse the system.

 

And the premades who were dodging aren't blameless victims here, they knew what they were doing was fucked up and they got punished for it.

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Why you talking about lack of communication ? It's written in ToU (that every player is supposed to have read btw) that cheating is punished and how. It's like you steal a grandma's handbag and once you get caught you claim you didn't know it's not allowed rofl.

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GGWP! Thanks a lot Elysium that you take this problem seriously, really appreciate your work!

Let's hope some of these pathetic wimps grow some balls to actually pvp and deserve their rank.

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Shouldn't have counted on and made plans according to something that is not supposed to happen like freezing. Some players got wrongly banned in the past (like MC bug into ban or invalid target pet bug without even knowing it) when ranked and dealt with the honor/rp lost just like you. Its the risks.

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2 hours ago, kalantal said:

It's not a risk if a GM says "No, it will not change and will remain as it currently is. If there is a change, there will be an announcement".

GMs aren't devs. Why would you ask them about development plans, expect them to know anything about it, or trust that any development information they do have is accurate?

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On 2/1/2017 at 7:51 AM, kalantal said:

Thanks @Pottu. This seems a good a place to post this because it seems directly related -- I was told by a GM 3 weeks ago that players with 0 Rank Point gains would not be subject to decay. I was assured that feature would remain and an announcement would be made if that were to change. This week, there was decay; presumably because of these dodgers. This set several of us back a few weeks because we were waiting for people like Chigga to get out of the system. Needless to say I'm a little frustrated we are all set back 40+ hours of playing because we were not notified.

1) Was this because of the dodgers?

2) is 0 RP gain decay a permanent fixture again?

 

Thanks again @Pottu

Do you want a blizzlike experience or what? This isn't Feenix...

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FXj1dUQ.png

how does this guy still have r13 if what people complaining about in this thread is true? if the freeze was removed from this reset, then even if he was 1 RP away from r14, he should be half way through r11 at the MOST right now

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Some people who had nothing to do with the que-dodging legitimately got screwed over that, Pottu. (The Kalantal GM screen shot)

Likewise, there was at least one GMs who had contacted Chigga midway through the week and said: "There sure are a lot of reports going on about you. Is something wrong?" Not a one actually told him something was wrong when the process of what people were doing was explained to the game-master who contacted him.

Just like screen-shots of the GM response was screen-shotted by Kalantal and posted on the BR1/BR2 Discord channel.

This is not that I don't  fully agree with the stance of the GM's about the dodging -- I believe the dodging is cancerous and ridiculous and became systemic (though every individual who participated in it even briefly are individually responsible for our own conduct; it was going on for more than a week) -- but the specific clause within the rules that you referenced is "organized killing for honor"; and I think that should be clarified.

The only way I can fit what the Alliance pre-mades were doing into that box within my understanding of the English Language was us setting Alliance PUGs up in such a way that they can be mowed down by enemy pre-mades as they come in late in the match that alliance dodged out of and have no method of putting the fight back on even footing, due to being outnumbered (as the BG fills slowly with PUGs), disorganized (pre-existing disadvantage of not being on VOIP) and often under-geared (pre-existing disadvantage).

I just think that rule needs an additional clause added. Because while I think everyone knew something janky was up that needed to change (and was often loudly argued about) -- I don't think anyone would have applied it to that rule specifically; although for all I know? That clause was reached for ... as a mercy, and a pointed warning rather than simply destroying the souls of people who's lives had become a soulless numbers meta-game for months.

The problem is there were signs the GM knew what was going on for over a week and if people believed their accounts were in danger, they certainly wouldn't have been doing it. An unbanned account generates far more honor per hour than a banned one. The evidence had convinced a majority of the people participating in those premade that things were Working As Intended.

====TLDR====
The problems I am seeing is the wording. By that wording -- organized killing for honor -- premades of any kind themselves are a bannable offense, i.e. bracket-leaders etc; and what the admins specifically dislike is -not- apparent to even a native English speaker, and that ultimately is the only thing I'm interested in getting to the bottom of.

I am trying to get it past the point of discussion amongst the PvPers, because if it's left up to that? This may happen again a few generations later, because from what I am being told by veteran and ex-rankers, this has happened before.
====/TLDR====

People are now getting late bans -- Griel -- as well as some whom I am personally aware were not involved in Chigga's que dodging and the most vocal against it  and others who were even some of the people who paged GMs against it are still getting banned... I'm having difficulty figuring out the common denominators between a lot of these later ban-waves. Given the specifics of honor-grinding, stacking, ladder-climbing etc.. an organized paragraph on what tactics are, and are not acceptable within the Blizz-like honor system is all I'm seeking. Given the problems that the admins disliked have become -systemic-, and now even people who admitted to guilt are becoming confused again ... I feel this desire for an open post about the GM Vision of the PvP ladder system and it's influence on each battleground is justified and necessary as this ban wave grows bigger and bigger past my own ban to people who were holding themselves apart in conversations about this because they -hadn't- participated.

 - Are people -wrong- for trying to get into the same AV with a friend? (I'd say no.)
 - Are people -wrong- for going into AV to grab a black lotus, and then /afk out? (Impulse says yes -- but then why would black lotus be in AV? I'm obviously incorrect.)
 - Are people -wrong- for quing with 15+ people to get a group into AV who can win it? (I don't know.)
 - Is quing with 5 people into WSG to avoid premades wrong? (I fail to see how to word it, but it -feels- wrong to me.)
 - Is it wrong to intentionally raising the honor caps because someone farmed more honor than they should. (Verandin believes it's wrong and has verbally argued on Jazzl's behalf because of it. I don't see how he could be correct though.)
 - Is having an organized bracket leader and caps wrong? ("organized killing for honor" -- does it require horde cooperation to fall under that? Given the clause was used to ban loads of Alliance, I don't see that could be the case. I think it's easy how one could draw this assumption.)

There is some very counter-intuitive stuff going on, and a lot of confusion with what the rules are, and why.  Afterall~ It may be blizz-like to have black lotus in AV ... but is it's presence really following the spirit of the battlegrounds system? Etc. Etc. Etc.

These are but a few of MANY problems I am finding, and virtually -every- ranker -ever- is "guilty" of some of these unconfirmed tactics on both Alliance and Horde. People who were not part of the Chigga crowd are becoming frightened and confused now regarding their time investment, and people legitimately want to follow the rules -- but given how they're worded? A person coming from completely outside this system with no knowledge of Vanilla would have trouble differentiating what is acceptable and what is not ... but if they avoided ALL of these tactics to be safe with their account and time investment, it would be 100% impossible for them to achieve Rank 14 -- and there are many other systemically used tactics on both Horde and Alliance that I have not written here.

And it is very likely that they would be less than safe regarding most of these tactics.

We'd like "Organized Killing for Honor" clarification by the GM staff so people can continue their grind with the full approval of the Elysium staff when this is all over.

Edits:
Making edits for tone and accuracy of information, because the intent of this post is respectful, and not being contrary -- but rather desiring to bridge the gaps in understanding that everyone is arguing about on the bracket 1 and 2 discords.. but I really feel we need an itemized sticky on PvP ranker advice from the Elysium staff on what they feel is "the correct way to do things".

There is a lot of misinformation people are trying to circulate as fact.

I am a person who -- I believe -- my account was in incredibly good standing until this event. I report bug abusers, gold-sellers, and even file bugs on the bug-tracker when I encounter them. I help people in the Help & Support section -- and I legitimately desire to stay on the correct side of the law. We just need the law to be worded better is all we're asking for.

Edited by Heglamore

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Or you can just play the game normally, rank up as you're supposed to, without using ways around any kind of difficulty/opposition and not take any shady/obvious non legit shortcuts. Your mind will be at peace and you will probably have way more fun. Just queue with some friends, try get better every real game you get. Rinse and repeat for a good amount of hours / day over few weeks. 

There is no need for a sticky post or whatever, ToU are already stickied and their interpretation is pretty obvious when it comes to ranking system (by cheating queue system you break the ToU, it's not rocket science). Just play the game fair and square.

When you say it's impossible to reach r13/14 without that kind of cheating (let's be honest here, it's plain cheating and you don't have to try make it appear as something "fishy" just because it has been done by 30ish players and some got away with it in a distant past because nobody cared), I can name you plenty of players who actually made it without needing to premade at all as well as plenty more who did it legitly by premading. 

In fact the "honor caps" during these past weeks were low enough for a soloqueuer to easily reach them just by being committed to it. You even named an example of this. 

- Your first 3 questions are legit ones which have been answered in the past already afaik (although AV is barely a proper pvp BG anyways, it's mainly a pve speedrun xd). In doubt, never do the questionable things ?

- Why on earth would 5 man queueing for WSG not be legit (is that you're saying yeah ?) ? You're stating ppl should not be allowed to queue with 4 friends ranking or not to have some real games, be it against a group of 5 + pugs or a 10 man prem ? Queue as 5 is a handicap for wining fast so I don't get your point here ? Why does it feel 'wrong' to you ?

- Your last 2 questions make no sense. They aren't even questions. The way the system works is straight forward : one player or group of players dominate honor wise each week and they decide when to stop or not at their convenience. Then it's on the others to line up or try to get more honor than him/them. If the guy is able to make rankers on his faction line up and stack to his liking, it's because he is able to get these decisions respected. It's just the law of the strongest if that makes any sense.

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There's still some salt in this thread.

 

The best concern would be why BR1 had only 8-9 slots in it ?!

 

 

Edited by Jpeg

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When you dodge queues, pugs have to play against premade every time. Getting 5 capped constantly with no hope of a fair game ruins the pug experience, and they don't try the next week. Then the brackets shrink.

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Exactly what Kalantal said. I think some of the people within this thread fail to recognize what the term "systemic" means, and that every person within the system has a -different- idea as to what "shady" is.

Edited by Heglamore
Formatting.

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