Problems with Nef

[Forumer 0]

My guild was progressing on Nefarian the other night, and we were wiping again and again in phase 1 due to shadowbolt volley. The ability just seemed to be acting very wonky and bugged out, and I wanted to know if other guilds who have downed nef could corroborate on whether or not this behavior is normal or not. So basically, we were getting hit with shadowbolt volly way too frequently. He just seemed to spam it constantly the whole phase for the most part, about 4-5 seconds apart. Our healers were going oom from all the aoe healing they had to do, and they all said it felt like healing on vael from how much aoe damage was going out on the raid. He also tended to teleport to one player and just sit on them while casting his volley over and over, so one side of the raid would usually just get screwed over then get overrun while the other would be fine for a little while. All in all, this lead to a giant wipefest where we never really made it out of phase 1 because of the crazy amount of shadow damage.

Edited March 16, 2017 by Forumer

[Storfan 24]

I havnt done Nef this week yet but did you try getting LoS from Nef when he was cating bolts? Did you use greater shadow prot pots?

[Forumer 0]

Yes we tried everything we could to do some form of los on nef, and it did help some, but sometimes he would just park it on a melee and obliterate the melee group or something similar. We were not using gspp (though we probably should have been), but looking over the numbers for damage taken last night, it seems like they would be of limited effectiveness. Perhaps if we got a good pull they could have gotten us into p2, but our healers would probably still have been oom. We were having people taking over 10k shadow damage halfway into phase 1.

[taladril 43]

Practice practice practice. And make sure dps are using consumes. It helps a bunch.

[Duality 4]

Try this:
Mark Neferian X (makes him easier to spot as he blinks around)
Mark a healer on both sides, who is competent to do the following:
Have this marked person stand close to the pillar, and the entire ranged grp on given side stacks on him.
Why stack? Nefarian seems more likely to teleport close to a player, hence close to the pillar.
Use the same pillar to LoS Nefarian and avoid the shadowbolts.
Be vocal on VoiceCom - "LoS on star" and call out players who don't stack or LoS. Nefarian will continue to cast untill you LoS X times.
Once he teleports again, go back to the original position next to the pillar.

If he teleports to melee you'll have to move in and out of LoS behind the pillar or you can have your tanks move the mobs further out in the room so that you can LoS Nefarian and still heal. Your melees can also use shadow prot pots to mitigate damage or move in and out of LoS behind the adjacent braziers.
If a melee dips low on health he should stay LoS untill he's topped of. A dead dps is no dps..
 

[Maxvla 0]

Nef phase 1 is quite easy to heal through. Assuming your raid is split into two door groups, just make sure priests are spread so that there is only one per group (as many as you have), and evenly split in door groups, and have them prayer of heal when Nef casts shadow bolt volley. Paladins/shamans/druids can clean up whatever prayer of heal misses. Obviously using priests for aoe healing means they need to be with their group members, so raid setup is important.

We typically run with 4-5 priests, so that's 2-3 per side placed in ranged/healer groups, with a tank group and melee group being healed by other healing classes. When not prayer of healing, priests are assigned solo tank healing duty (2 per side). It's important to tell your non-priests to prioritize the non-priest groups for healing after AOE happens. If your priests are paying attention to Nef, you can even time your prayer to land right after he finishes his cast (the animation is different from his single target bolt) but this sort of timing is not necessary. We only have deaths to careless mind control handling now.

Don't bother messing with line of sight. That is not the solution. Get the right setup and play better.

Edited March 20, 2017 by Maxvla

[Alrik 6]

prepopping GSPP and repopping it after the CD is gone eats up 4k-6.5k shadowdmg from Volley, according to you, the dmg taken on the whole phase was 10k, so using the proper consum will reduce P1 Raiddmg by around 50%.

 

If you don't use GSPP i doubt your Raid uses other Consums aswell? Increasing DMG taken by the Drakonids because they don't flopp over instantly after spawning.

[taladril 43]

GSPP? 5g per person per attempt. So skipping tanks one attempt costs the guild 180g. Or you could recruit better healers.

[Alrik 6]

Uhm.. yes? Raiding is expensive, even more when you're progressing. I spend 3-400g per Week on Raiding Consumables and thats without dying and repopping them.

 

As i said, the GSPP prevent 50% of the DMG that causes their wipes.

If this is too expensive then i don't think their Healers use consums, mana oils, Demonic runes and mana pots to not go oom.

[flowqz 34]

3 hours ago, Alrik said:

Uhm.. yes? Raiding is expensive, even more when you're progressing. I spend 3-400g per Week on Raiding Consumables and thats without dying and repopping them.

 

As i said, the GSPP prevent 50% of the DMG that causes their wipes.

If this is too expensive then i don't think their Healers use consums, mana oils, Demonic runes and mana pots to not go oom.

so u pop flasks and other shit on bosses on farm, to get a quicker run, but than u have to invest more time to farm the consumables?

i honestly dont get that logic

[Alrik 6]

1 hour ago, flowqz said:

so u pop flasks and other shit on bosses on farm, to get a quicker run, but than u have to invest more time to farm the consumables?

i honestly dont get that logic

Its more Fun? The friendly competition amongst each other and seeing improvement in yourself each week keeps you going.

 

[taladril 43]

I'm not sure how you guys don't burn out with that kind of practice. I'm plenty prepared for progression but I would not be having fun if all I was doing was burning 400g a week to go a few minutes faster.

Edited March 21, 2017 by taladril

[Alrik 6]

So would i if i had no consums (playing fury without Worldbuffs & Consums is boring).

But i didnt ask "Forumer" to pop Flasks left and right. I only told him that he can absorb 50% of the Raiddmg with 2 GSPP.

[Maxvla 0]

Using shadow protection potions is a complete waste. They are completely unnecessary if you follow my advice above. I don't even have to mana pot to heal through phase one.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Maxvla

[Storfan 24]

3 hours ago, Maxvla said:

Using shadow protection potions is a complete waste. They are completely unnecessary if you follow my advice above. I don't even have to mana pot to heal through phase one.

You're assuming people have both spatial and situational awareness.

People dont have this:)

[Alrik 6]

5 hours ago, Maxvla said:

Using shadow protection potions is a complete waste. They are completely unnecessary if you follow my advice above. I don't even have to mana pot to heal through phase one.

Wrong.

Just because your Healers and my Healers are stacked enough to faceroll heal throught Phase 1 without anyone using a GSPP (i don't btw) it doesnt mean that this progressing Guild can do it.

He asked on Tips to get his Guild to clear BWL, telling him to not use Consums isnt productive.

[Slicy 11]

I use 1 GSPP and it's way enough. Actually gaining gold from raiding, every week. Spending less gold in consumables than I gain from boss kills.

The ones who burnout are those in guilds who get 200 deaths / raid evening for whatever reason, repoping every consumable several times per BWL.

Use GSPP and see it as a (cheap) death proof investment on Nef. If you prefer dying from random shadowbolt spam, be my guest. Same shit as GFPP really.

Edited March 22, 2017 by Slicy

[Duality 4]

Top tier guild: overextend, ignore mechanics, do maximum dps
Progression guild: use the nessecary consumables, LoS, stay alive

Big difference in how you approach this boss.

[Alrik 6]

12 minutes ago, Slicy said:

I use 1 GSPP and it's way enough. Actually gaining gold from raiding, every week. Spending less gold in consumables than I gain from boss kills.

You don't need 20 Rage pots per evening x(

[Slicy 11]

@Duality I have died a maximum of 5 times by my own mistake since BWL got released. There is a fine limit between being too reckless and growing balls. It's not ignoring mechanics at all. More like understand them and figure how to counter instead of standing in the fire when you have 500hp, if you know what I mean x)

Doing good dps during phase 1 removes a lot of stress on your healers which let them top faster players getting shadowbolted. You really don't need to LoS... Get better healers if so.

I do need thistle Tea though Alrik it's not my fault if Rage pots have dogshit mats :P

[Duality 4]

6 minutes ago, Slicy said:

@Duality I have died a maximum of 5 times by my own mistake since BWL got released. There is a fine limit between being too reckless and growing balls. It's not ignoring mechanics at all. More like understand them and figure how to counter instead of standing in the fire when you have 500hp, if you know what I mean x)

I was refering to the current content as a whole. Take Shazzrah for instance where u can burst the boss down before he does a single teleport. But anyhow, I guess 'ignore' wasent the right word to use, but you get my point. If you have a good healer watching over you, there is nothing to stop you from taking a few too many stacks. Personally I encourage this to make the fights more interesting:)

[Slicy 11]

Ah I see. Well I wouldn't mind bigger HP on bosses tbh even though it wouldn't change much I think.

You are def right, everyone is having way more fun by taking "risks" and challenging limits of a raid than playing it too safe, especially when outgearing content.

[gotmilk0112 10]

My guild had the same problems. We ended up using Greater Shadow Protection Potion on the whole raid, as well as marking nef with a moon so that ranged can pillar-hump to avoid his aoe shadowbolts.

[Maxvla 0]

On 3/22/2017 at 4:01 AM, Alrik said:

Wrong.

Just because your Healers and my Healers are stacked enough to faceroll heal throught Phase 1 without anyone using a GSPP (i don't btw) it doesnt mean that this progressing Guild can do it.

He asked on Tips to get his Guild to clear BWL, telling him to not use Consums isnt productive.

We did this on our 2nd ever BWL on a server that had just released BWL (Darrowshire). It was progression, and we weren't stacked with gear at all. ZG isn't out, so we don't have that gear either. They just need to learn to use their healer's abilties: priests for poh and tank heals, paladins/shamans for spot raid heals, druids hotting tanks and spot raid heals. With a little gear you can do it without even mana potting as the priest (can use a ton of mana if nef stays on your side shadow volleying). The fight is truly trivial.