Ninjas, Community, and Admins

[Orcrageous 0]

For background: https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/46230-ninja-horde-pre-warrior/

Recent threads alerting the community to ninja looters have been closed by one or more support representatives. Far from the quoted rationale that these threads serve solely as "witch hunts," they serve the important purposes of protecting players from ninja looting and discouraging such conduct through social stigmatization- which has proven time and again throughout history to be a powerful means of correcting behavior.

Ninja looting was never sanctioned by Blizzard and we are not asking our admins to do so now. We merely ask that you do not stifle our attempts to warn our community of toxic players. Ninjas and others who behave badly rely on anonymity and the short memory of the collective community. Stifling communication provides fertile ground for their ilk.

At around 4 months since launch, the Elysium community is young. Administrative decisions that stifle communication and prevent warning others of misconduct will have substantial negative impacts such as fostering an atmosphere of distrust that discourages cooperation and interaction.

Admins - Please let us call out ninjas and other toxic players in our forums for the good of all. 

Players - Please continue to call out ninjas and other toxic players by all means available. It is appreciated by many.

Elysium is an awesome place where I have met many great people. Let's keep it that way and continue to improve! Thanks.

[Hudson 16]

You'll note that the threads are typically locked instead of hidden, which still allows you to view them and make your own judgement. Ninja loot threads, blacklist threads, etc inevitably devolve into name-calling and vitriol that is anything but productive.

[Orcrageous 0]

Hudson, your concern is valid and your attention is appreciated.

I *have* noted these threads are locked, not hidden.  While such devolution into name-calling and vitriol is undesirable, locking a thread (it seems to me) necessarily prevents any activity on it and thus condemns it to quickly fall down the list and off of our radars- which is what ninjas want.  Case-in-point: the thread linked above was locked within about 24 hours, or less.  How soon will it fall off the first page and be effectively forgotten with little effective means for other players to find it in the future?  Flaming happens all over, all the time.  We should not suffer ninja looters to hide among us simply because some people make rude comments. 

There are alternatives.  Removing those ugly comments instead of locking the threads is one, but perhaps too labor-intensive.  Another approach could be a sub-forum devoted to these matters where players may state their complaints/warnings and present their evidence (such as the screenshot in the link above).  Players may judge for themselves and any one thread need not remain open forever, so long as the thread can be easily located and retrieved.  A collection of complaint threads that is searchable by character name would allow every player to check would-be group members for any history of bad conduct. 

Thanks for contributing to this discussion!

[Oakenlix 79]

@Hudson, when you lock a thread like that, you prevent the accused person from responding there and explaining his position. If you are against unjustified shaming, you're only making it worse by doing that.

If its against the rules, then delete it (which I don't support). But if its not, just leave it be.

[nemex 1]

I'm very interested in what the admins have to say about this. Something very similar happened to me when I posted a while back: 

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/45024-elysium-pvp-ninja-warning-shayathel-ne-hunter/

The thread was locked shortly after which didn't give me enough time to reply and back up my claims. So I've taken it upon myself to warn the community in world chat about this and I'm curious if that could be considered harassing on my part. I don't post often enough to get blocked by the auto-mute. I believe the community should be made aware of these toxic players so their behavior isn't encouraged.

[Fibber 2]

17 hours ago, Hudson said:

You'll note that the threads are typically locked instead of hidden, which still allows you to view them and make your own judgement. Ninja loot threads, blacklist threads, etc inevitably devolve into name-calling and vitriol that is anything but productive.

Locking threads discourages players from posting them. 

[Software 9]

11 hours ago, Fibber said:

Locking threads discourages players from posting them. 

Agreed. There has to be a way for us to police this ourselves if the Admins aren't going to take it on, and really, I don't expect them to.

Locked threads are forgotten about very fast.

While appreciate the admins posting in them, and even with Hudson's humor laced posts, it's really not that useful to lock them.

Sure, witch hunts may be against the rules, but people shouldn't have to state loot rules in every single pug to avoid this kind of behavior.

[Alright 20]

Accepted.