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Theloras

We may lose Multiple ranks of the same Judgement mechanic

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Rofl at you freaks autistically screeching instead of providing evidence the mechanic is correct as it is.

lmaoing at your life @killerduki

 

//kind regards ,KingRat

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13 minutes ago, kingRat said:

Rofl at you freaks autistically screeching instead of providing evidence the mechanic is correct as it is.

lmaoing at your life @killerduki

 

//kind regards ,KingRat

hey kingKUNT

#7Oct 13 2005 at 12:31 PMRating: Decent
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Multiple paladins can stack different ranks of the judgements on the same mob. The last time my raid group killed Ragnaros we didn't have enough priests to do AoE heals on the rogues, so the three paladins in the melee groups coordinated different ranks of Judgement of Light on him, and the rogues and dps warriors ended up healing themselves a lot.

http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=243&mid=11287757594799940

try again scrub

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2 minutes ago, Theloras said:

hey kingKUNT

#7Oct 13 2005 at 12:31 PMRating: Decent
Cathela
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Quote:
Multiple paladins can stack different ranks of the judgements on the same mob. The last time my raid group killed Ragnaros we didn't have enough priests to do AoE heals on the rogues, so the three paladins in the melee groups coordinated different ranks of Judgement of Light on him, and the rogues and dps warriors ended up healing themselves a lot.

http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=243&mid=11287757594799940

try again scrub

Reportedly this was nerfed in the 1.8 patch so that now you can only have one rank each of JoW and JoL on a monster, though I haven't had a chance to confirm this.

Also, there's apparently some kind of aggro screwup when JoL and JoW proc since the patch. Not sure if this has been hotfixed or not.

 

If you're going to quote something in a source, remember to post the rest too, piss ant.

Now find video proof/screenshots of it happening pre 1.8 (when it allegedly should happen) and past 1.8 up to 1.12, before that it's as much hearsay as the part which I highlighted, both are forum posts claiming something, not definitive fact.

 

//kind regards, a guy whose JUDGEMENT isn't clouded by illiterate autistic rage.

 

 

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14 minutes ago, kingRat said:

Reportedly this was nerfed in the 1.8 patch so that now you can only have one rank each of JoW and JoL on a monster, though I haven't had a chance to confirm this.

Also, there's apparently some kind of aggro screwup when JoL and JoW proc since the patch. Not sure if this has been hotfixed or not.

 

If you're going to quote something in a source, remember to post the rest too, piss ant.

Now find video proof/screenshots of it happening pre 1.8 (when it allegedly should happen) and past 1.8 up to 1.12, before that it's as much hearsay as the part which I highlighted, both are forum posts claiming something, not definitive fact.

 

//kind regards, a guy whose JUDGEMENT isn't clouded by illiterate autistic rage.

 

 

yea and what he wrote underneath specifically says he CANNOT CONFIRM whether it was nerfed or not - but it does prove that the mechanic was there

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https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/802#issuecomment-303175308

Quote

> It suggests that there was a glitched visual indicator that this was the case, not that it means the mechanic worked in a way entirely contrary to every other ability the works in a similar fashion in the game.

@Phoosy  Entirely contrary to every ability will also include Taunts , because you can stack them and they will still work for the new target , it is non periodic or non damaging DOT , exactly in the same fashion as this.

Our Evidence is clear :

http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=243&mid=11287757594799940

**"Multiple paladins can stack different ranks of the judgements on the same mob. The last time my raid group killed Ragnaros we didn't have enough priests to do AoE heals on the rogues, so the three paladins in the melee groups coordinated different ranks of Judgement of Light on him, and the rogues and dps warriors ended up healing themselves a lot."**

The person does not Confirm the Hotfix, neither it exist at all , which gives this as Legit , there is no more anything to confirm since you already have a Patch note from 2.4 in regard to Judgement of the Crusader

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/2-4-0

**-Judgement of the Crusader: It is no longer possible to have icons for two different ranks of Judgment of the Crusader appear at the same time when judged by multiple Paladins.**

If this is not a Evidence, then i consider this report or everyone who support as retarded based on Darkrasp attitude claiming on self opinion (like the Holy Resistance) instead of giving counter evidence.

I don't give a shit if you feel bad or ban for this, but it is also shit to claim something based on "self experience" denying Pure Evidence. .

If server step like this denying the Evidence without any proper counter Evidence giving, then this server is nothing but a Kronos/Crestfall junk where they deny evidence based on "self experience".

unknown.png

/Kind regards Killerduki

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@Phoosy @Guybrush - Respectfully, if I may take a moment and remind you of what Cgbd42 said on this report since I received a 3day ban on Github:

reproduce.jpg

"We are here to reproduce what have existed, not do fair things for everyone."

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/422

The evidence that I found from 2005 proves that the "Multiple Ranks of the same Judgement" mechanic existed during Vanilla - on that point we all agree:

http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=243&mid=11287757594799940

#7Oct 13 2005 at 12:31 PMRating: Decent
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Quote:
Multiple paladins can stack different ranks of the judgements on the same mob. The last time my raid group killed Ragnaros we didn't have enough priests to do AoE heals on the rogues, so the three paladins in the melee groups coordinated different ranks of Judgement of Light on him, and the rogues and dps warriors ended up healing themselves a lot.

Reportedly this was nerfed in the 1.8 patch so that now you can only have one rank each of JoW and JoL on a monster, though I haven't had a chance to confirm this.

Also, there's apparently some kind of aggro screwup when JoL and JoW proc since the patch. Not sure if this has been hotfixed or not.

What you and no one else can prove however is whether this particular mechanic was removed/nerfed/hotfixed by Blizzard from patch 1.8 onwards - similarly the original forum poster himself even admits that he doesn't know and therefore cannot confirm its removal either.

Likewise, you cannot just use your own personal beliefs or opinions to make "things fair for everyone" as Cgbd42 previously said.

Anything less than that would therefore constitute a double standard - again I'm honestly not trying to be a dick here - but please try to see it from our perspective.

That's all I ask.

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I will copy what I wrote on Github, because apparently reading comprehension is difficult.

Quote

It suggests that there was a glitched visual indicator that this was the case, not that it means the mechanic worked in a way **entirely contrary to every other ability the works in a similar fashion in the game.**

Quote

Judgment of the Crusader: It is no longer possible to have icons for two different ranks of Judgment of the Crusader appear at the same time when judged by multiple Paladins.

This clearly says "There should not be the visual appearance of differing ranks of Judgements applying on a target", which the means **by extension** "This isn't actually applying twice and it was a visual bug. If it were applying in both instances, we _should_ show it to you as we should be showing you all the applied debuffs on a target because that is the basic design of this game, but since it's not actually applying we're not going to show it to you like it is."

I do not know how you're getting "Multiple ranks of a Judgement can be applied to the same target" out of  "it wasn't intended to display multiple ranks of the debuff for this Judgement"

I will elaborate specifically on my quotations. The patch states that it was removing the second debuff icon from appearing because it wasn't actually applying. Why would Blizzard remove a debuff icon if it still took effect? Why would they want to display duplicated information in a debuff list? Where on God's green Earth are you getting the notion that their removal of the icon that was not clearly intended to be displaying somehow means that the debuff effect that was displaying erroneously was active and that it stacked with other ranks of itself? Of course it didn't do that, that would go against how the entire game is designed - debuff effects don't get 'hidden', higher ranked spells overwrite lower ranked spells, and they display an effect to the players so that you know at all times what your target is being impacted by. However, despite this, Killerduki is bringing up taunt into the equation. Quote:

Quote

Entirely contrary to every ability will also include Taunts , because you can stack them and they will still work for the new target , it is non periodic or non damaging DOT , exactly in the same fashion as this.

Taunt stacks with itself, therefore down ranked taunts still work? Taunt, the ability that has no ranks, that is a singular spell the operates consistently with how researched documentation shows it works? Taunt, the spell that, and I quote myself here on a previous conversation we've had about Taunt, "...puts you at the top of the aggro list at the time of the taunt, so any more aggro you receive is cumulative once the forced attack effect has worn off..."? The one that falls in line exactly with how it should work because the unranked spell gets replaced by another one from a different Warrior that is then at the top (or equal to if neither warrior generates any more hate) of the hate list and now has the forced attack effect for the duration? Come on, quit trying to derail the point because you can't back up your claims effectively.

Quote

If this is not a Evidence, then i consider this report or everyone who support as retarded based on Darkrasp attitude claiming on self opinion (like the Holy Resistance) instead of giving counter evidence.

I don't give a shit if you feel bad or ban for this, but it is also shit to claim something based on "self experience" denying Pure Evidence. .

If server step like this denying the Evidence without any proper counter Evidence giving, then this server is nothing but a Kronos/Crestfall junk where they deny evidence based on "self experience".

I'm going to try to translate this, but what I'm getting here is that I'm retarded because I agree with Imbaslap (whom I still don't actually know at all) and Darkrasp (whom I don't know, either) that the mechanic is working contrary to how all other debuff mechanics work? Your forum post confirming your belief with no numbers, no pictures, no proof, and no other body of work referencing this behavior that would be plastered all over every internet guide for Paladins because it's a major imbalance that would have made Paladins even better than Shamans in Vanilla because Judgement stacking by all appearances could break encounters with how much extra damage, healing, etc. could be possible is somehow more valid than how the rest of the spells in the game are designed?

This hotfix thing you keep bringing up has no relevance - you've repeatedly stated "the absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence," which by your logic means anything is possible if they didn't hotfix an issue that no one else can substantiate exists.

No one is denying your claims on "self experience", and you've not made one lick of effort to show this "pure evidence" beyond your refusal to stop copy/pasting a forum post that does exactly what you're doing here: stating something without any factual evidence to back it up. 

Oh, and the next time you want to claim that I'm being paid by Crestfall to give you a hard time just because I agree with someone you dislike? How about doing it when you've got something worthwhile to make that accusation over. You're welcome to be intellectually dishonest, but accept the fact you look like a fool for it.

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"We are here to reproduce what have existed, not do fair things for everyone."

You cannot deny the 2005 forum post and any attempt by you to do so is being intellectually dishonest on your part.

I provided a legitimate first hand post from retail vanilla stating the mechanic existed.

You need to prove that the mechanic was removed/nerfed/hotfixed.

Just like the info I PMed you about Seal Twisting - it was possible ever since the Seal of Command change in patch 1.11 and was hidden in plain sight until late TBC when Slayton first discovered it.

Or do you continue to deny that being a legitimate vanilla mechanic as well?

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A text post is not definitive proof that it existed. Anyone could have pulled any sort of crap out of their rears and put it on the Internet, does that mean anything that was said about Vanilla WoW in the past is also true? Give me a break.

As for your PM, seeing as the only evidence for the delay that I've seen is a single patch note's NOTE on WoWwiki from back in the day, I don't know what to think yet. I would need to see something beyond that singular source for definitive proof, as we have as a rule not relied on WoW Wiki for substantiated evidence.

The burden of proof relies on the one making the outrageous claims, and nothing I've said is outrageous. Your claim the mechanic works dfiferently requires you to present data, something that substantiates your claims beyond a single forum post. Given multiple posts or content that also claims this was a thing would go a long way to making me believe it was intended - otherwise? It's the equivalent of someone saying you could fight Arthas back in Vanilla.

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BTW you copy/pasted stuff the Duki wrote on github not me -

"If this is not a Evidence, then i consider this report or everyone who support as retarded based on Darkrasp attitude claiming on self opinion (like the Holy Resistance) instead of giving counter evidence..."

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How about this - if you are so absolutely certain that this is a legitimate use of the mechanic then you should stop sitting here and screaming about the singular shredded scrap of secondhand evidence you can find...

...and go find more.

If the mechanic exists to be used in that manner; and the mechanic was used in said manner; then there will be corroborating evidence to back up the initial claim that said mechanic is to be used in said manner. Go find other posts, or videos, or literally anything to back up your claim.

Otherwise it just looks like you're clinging to a single post to back up your use of a mechanic bug because your skill level clearly can't handle the content without the mechanic abuse.

People only scream this loud when they're doing something wrong; they know it; and they don't want it to get taken away. I get it, you found a neat toy that you can abuse - and now they've noticed. Either back up your claim, or accept that your bug-abuse has gone on too long and now you'll have to play like any other person.

wxLKoaZ.png

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19 minutes ago, Phoosy said:

A text post is not definitive proof that it existed. Anyone could have pulled any sort of crap out of their rears and put it on the Internet, does that mean anything that was said about Vanilla WoW in the past is also true? Give me a break.

As for your PM, seeing as the only evidence for the delay that I've seen is a single patch note's NOTE on WoWwiki from back in the day, I don't know what to think yet. I would need to see something beyond that singular source for definitive proof, as we have as a rule not relied on WoW Wiki for substantiated evidence.

The burden of proof relies on the one making the outrageous claims, and nothing I've said is outrageous. Your claim the mechanic works dfiferently requires you to present data, something that substantiates your claims beyond a single forum post. Given multiple posts or content that also claims this was a thing would go a long way to making me believe it was intended - otherwise? It's the equivalent of someone saying you could fight Arthas back in Vanilla.

Re: Seal Twisting - you are welcome to try it out for yourself and see how you can Seal Twist here on Elysium as I did on Feenix:

zgsg.jpg

df6b53.jpg

If you refuse to accept a legitimate Blizzard patch note, then I really am at a loss for words here...

As for this quote by you, "The burden of proof relies on the one making the outrageous claims..." Imbaslap was the one who cast the first stone by claiming/lying that this mechanic was considered a bug on Nost and accused my guild of exploiting here on Elysium - for which he received no reprimand for.

Regarding this, "It's the equivalent of someone saying you could fight Arthas back in Vanilla." are you suggesting that the person who wrote the forum post was specifically telling tales in order to pull the wool over everyone's eyes back on retail as well the entire private vanilla server 12 years later?

PS "Given multiple posts or content that also claims this was a thing would go a long way to making me believe it was intended - otherwise?" Seal Twisting was never intended by Blizzard but they considered it a "Creative use of Game Mechanics" and applauded Slayton for discovering it in the first place.

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Feenix is a different server bruv. Even then, how does "I can use two seals by abusing a 0.5 second window" come anywhere near to "I can stack different levels of the same debuff; I am the only class in the game that works this way; it's a feature not a bug"?

It doesn't.

You're being willfully dense at this point.

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2 minutes ago, IrregularOddity said:

Feenix is a different server bruv. Even then, how does "I can use two seals by abusing a 0.5 second window" come anywhere near to "I can stack different levels of the same debuff; I am the only class in the game that works this way; it's a feature not a bug"?

It doesn't.

You're being willfully dense at this point.

no I'm not cuz i got the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT from people there on Feenix - SHOW ME VANILLA EVIDENCE THAT SEAL TWISTING EXISTED IN VANILLA OR GTFO

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3 minutes ago, Theloras said:

no I'm not cuz i got the EXACT SAME ARGUMENT from people there on Feenix - SHOW ME VANILLA EVIDENCE THAT SEAL TWISTING EXISTED IN VANILLA OR GTFO

Okay, and what evidence did you show that caused them to believe you? Because so far you're not showing anything but a lackluster forum post and trusting a wiki which - if you've gone through at LEAST middle or highschool, you know that nobody trusts wiki sources because they're open to editing.

Now I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying if it is right, there will be other mentions of this elsewhere.

Find me literally, LITERALLY, any other person, video, post, ect. mentioning the mechanic of stacking paladin debuffs at different levels, and I will personally beat Phoosy over the head with it.

Until then - yeah, you're being willfully dense.

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2 minutes ago, IrregularOddity said:

Find me literally, LITERALLY, any other person, video, post, ect. mentioning the mechanic of stacking paladin debuffs at different levels, and I will personally beat Phoosy over the head with it.

I'd accept that beating.

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1 minute ago, IrregularOddity said:

Okay, and what evidence did you show that caused them to believe you? Because so far you're not showing anything but a lackluster forum post and trusting a wiki which - if you've gone through at LEAST middle or highschool, you know that nobody trusts wiki sources because they're open to editing.

Now I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm saying if it is right, there will be other mentions of this elsewhere.

Find me literally, LITERALLY, any other person, video, post, ect. mentioning the mechanic of stacking paladin debuffs at different levels, and I will personally beat Phoosy over the head with it.

Until then - yeah, you're being willfully dense.

The only change that the Feenix devs made was to add the 0.5 second delay to Seal of Command due to the evidence from the 1.11 Patch change and voila Seal Twisting is possible - you can do the same yourself if you have a Paladin.

All of the evidence was listed and shown on Feenix's github at the time but has since been taken down.

Anyway, I don't need to provide any other proof to you because Seal Twisting is possible here on Elysium due to Seal of Command working properly and having its 0.5 second delay - you are free to test it out yourself if you have a Paladin.

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Just now, Theloras said:

The only change that the Feenix devs made was to add the 0.5 second delay to Seal of Command due to the evidence from the 1.11 Patch change and voila Seal Twisting is possible - you can do the same yourself if you have a Paladin.

All of the evidence was listed and shown on Feenix's github at the time but has since been taken down.

Anyway, I don't need to provide any other proof to you because Seal Twisting is possible here on Elysium due to Seal of Command working properly and having its 0.5 second delay - you are free to test it out yourself if you have a Paladin.

We aren't talking about Feenix. I don't give two flying leaps what Feenix did. I don't care if Feenix gave you rainbow ponies at level 1 and held Seal Twisting Paladin Pride Parades in the Stormwind streets every day.

I want you to prove - that those debuffs - are supposed to stack.
Not seal twisting.

I want you to prove that those debuffs are supposed to stack by, unintuitively mind you, using different levels of the same spell. Drop seal twisting. I want you to prove what you went on a sperg-rant about on the github.

3 minutes ago, Phoosy said:

I'd accept that beating.

You have his ear. He's listening. He's waiting for you to provide evidence beyond what you've provided. Give it to him and prove him wrong: stand up, be a man, and show him that he's dumb.

Or frig off ricky, nobody's got time for this shit. 

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3 minutes ago, Phoosy said:

I'd accept that beating.

well that at least made me laugh and I will break out my old Mac G5 that I used back during retail Vanilla as I had a bunch of screenshots from that era still on 

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Evidence is quite clear , and i don't feel a need to further explain it , because Phoosy decide to nag on the patch 2.4

Patch is "visual bug" , Forum Post is "can't judge on forum poster" , well i guess when you get more than 1 thing , it mean that the ignorance is big here. Because there is no counter evidence to this at all .

http://wow.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=243&mid=11287757594799940

Oct 09 2005

Quote

Multiple paladins can stack different ranks of the judgements on the same mob. The last time my raid group killed Ragnaros we didn't have enough priests to do AoE heals on the rogues, so the three paladins in the melee groups coordinated different ranks of Judgement of Light on him, and the rogues and dps warriors ended up healing themselves a lot.

This is obviously not a patch 2.4 and is interconnected to the Patch 2.4

I didn't travel back in times to "reverse or edit this" in favor of Paladins trying to prove something to Private Server.

Neither the fix was confirmed by this person or by any Patch note/post/blue post or anything.

Quote

A text post is not definitive proof that it existed. Anyone could have pulled any sort of crap out of their rears and put it on the Internet, does that mean anything that was said about Vanilla WoW in the past is also true? Give me a break.

Shall i start giving every single bug report based of a Text post given in this or any other project?!.

Let me begin with the 3 Demons (mini bosses) in Winterspring where a single text post says they are immune to charm, while no other specific video/post or anything confirm that , how about that server confirms and fixing it ?!.

With this theory , over 1000 bugs should get reversed again back to their original bugged values, because over 1000 bugs was based on evidence by a single text post.

Quote

As for your PM, seeing as the only evidence for the delay that I've seen is a single patch note's NOTE on WoWwiki from back in the day, I don't know what to think yet. I would need to see something beyond that singular source for definitive proof, as we have as a rule not relied on WoW Wiki for substantiated evidence.

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/656

We just see a Double Standards right now , how about this report being confirmed?!

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/395

The logic of this bug report ^

https://elysium-project.org/bugtracker/issue/832

The logic of this bug report ^

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/36862-development-update-08022017/

Bug fixed!?

/Kind regards Killerduki

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Wow, if a wowwiki article and Theloras convincing Feenix devs is the only actual support for seal twisting being functional in vanilla maybe that needs to be looked into as well. @Imbaslap could have a field day here. Good job guys!

Let's hope for a pull request on the judg stacking soon!

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I am not into this thing and I do not play in this server, but there is proof that it once stacked and unless you have not found proof WHEN it was changed, you should keep it as it is. Changing it now to a non stackable version of it would be a change based on assumptions and therefore not professional.

Btw this is NO troll post, I am serious about what I wrote.

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