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Jawohl

Naxxramas - World Buffs Y/N ?

Naxxramas - World Buffs  

104 members have voted

  1. 1. Naxxramas - World Buffs Y/N

    • World Buffs should be available for Naxxramas as originally scheluded ( next maintenance )
      22
    • World Buffs should REMAIN UNAVAILABLE for Naxxramas longer than originally scheluded ( Until Re-Evaluating the situation )
      82


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I played wow during vanilla retail and my guild only made it through spider wing, first boss of plague, first boss of death knight and up to thaddius in abom. Then TBC was coming soon and nobody wanted to bother raiding anymore. It really really REALLY sucked that I didn't get to finish naxx and when it was re-released in WOTLK my guild was speed clearing it the first week which almost made things worse.

I've been playing on private servers for about 5 years now exclusively because I wanted to do AQ40 and Naxx again. When I finally got the chance to do AQ40 again I lasted 3-4 clears of the instance before I had to quit raiding. Why? Because I would have to quit my job in order to farm 2 flasks a week, all the protection pots, rage pots, free action pots, etc. in addition to logging in an hour before raiding (I'm 2 hours behind EST so that means getting to work an hour early on raid days so I can leave early).

It's easy for people to say "Sounds like you are in the wrong guild" but that's not the point. It's not about the guild, I have 0 interest in doing shit half assed. I have 0 interest wasting hours wiping because half the people I'm playing with are paying more attention to the TV than the raid they are in. I don't have fun carry slackers on my back and I don't have fun being carried on the back of those putting in more effort. Period. I'm also not the only one. I guarantee you will find many people with the same sentiment at any 'tier' of guild.

If flasks were nerfed or made easier to farm I would probably still be raiding. (Exactly what blizzard did for TBC)

If consumes were nerfed so you can only use 1 or 2 at a time I would probably still be raiding. (Exactly what blizzard did for TBC)

If world buffs were permanently disabled I would probably still be raiding. (Exactly what blizzard did for TBC)

I know that none of these things are blizzlike in vanilla but in vanilla the vast majority of guilds did not flask every raid member until they started to get stuck on bosses in naxx. My guild didn't flask DPS until patchwerk (which was a more common blocker than 4H in retail (most guilds didn't get to 4H)). Most guilds also didn't stack world buffs or use every possible consume available, just the ones with the biggest impact. The only guilds that did use all these things to the limit are the guilds that were pushing for world first boss kills and when you look at a raid video it's most likely from one of these guilds in the vast minority.

For the record, my guild used to get in flame wars on the blizzard forums with "stupid casuals". By today's standards we would have been a straight up shit-tier ultra casual guild but back then we were considered 'hardcore' by most players.

I'm 100% confident that if consumes, flasks and world buffs were as widely used in retail MC through BWL as they are on private servers, blizzard would have nerfed them all well before AQ40 came out, never mind naxx.

The problem in vanilla wow is that these things make bosses easier (aka the fun part of the game) but don't cause you to have to put in less time to kill those bosses. Instead you just shift time from working on technique and learning boss mechanics to time farming consumables and running around the world chasing buffs (aka the not fun parts of the game).

For many people, this makes it impossible to play the game anymore. I would literally have to quit my job to keep up with my guild mates. This is in a large part due to simply being in a time zone 2 hours earlier than most of them. That's a really shitty reason to make a game inaccessible. I'm also sure that I'm not the only one who has quit playing since AQ came out due to this exact problem. Yes vanilla wow was great because it was hard but people played the game differently back in retail and it wasn't as time consume as it is on private servers. You can make the game exactly blizzlike in mechanics but this isn't a single player game, it's a social game and WE changed. We are keeping the game from being blizzlike. Having world buffs disabled is the closest this game has felt like to retail since I started playing on private servers (my guild raided on the weekend when naxx was released and I had a chance to join them for a few bosses).

Am I saying they should remove flasks? No.

Am I saying they should remove world buffs forever? No.

Why the hell did I bother posting this then? Just to give another perspective and maybe something to think about.

TBC solves most of these problems and apparently it's coming eventually. I'll just wait for that.

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Yeah some may complain about the "hassle" to world buff, but there is a hassle to farm flask needed for specific classes / roles on certain fights when you do not have world buffs.

While world buffing for AQ40 / BWL means you can maintain those buffs the entire raid as long as you are efficient, Naxx is much longer world buffs will expire and some of the bosses you don't need flask.   It is appealing to be able to do the bosses that flask are not needed for, then on another night world buff and down the more flask mandated fights (Loatheb / 4h (tanks) / Pachtwerk (tanks) / KT).  Would a Tribute run then porting / summoning (alt) for the few bosses that are extreme gear/buff checks not be less time than farming flask?

Me personally, I grind a lot for gold, and buy flask with any gold I get and have been doing this for months.  That is what I get to do with the gear I've gotten, fish / kill lvl 53-57 mobs.   People spamming for LF1M (insert instance) need tank, I can't go to that.  I have to farm gold for flask so I don't get 1 shot from a KT add, Patchwerk, or can survive a 5 mark + damage in the event of bad rng on 4H.   Many 20 man pugs, I can't go to those if I am to live through certain fights in Naxx gotta farm.  This is the tough reality of Naxx and is the reason less than 1% cleared it (with world buffs available).   AQ40 had consumable requirements scared many people off and those requirements are nothing compared to Naxx with specific encounters.  So I know where @Armilus is coming from in that respect.

The wing system in Naxx does allow for more casual guilds to not have to clear everything every week to reach their 8/9 set bonuses.   They can pick and chose which bosses they go for in a raid lockout due to the Wing Structure of the instance.   They can pick their moments to go full consumable for specific bosses to be a bit more conservative with the gold per week need to maintain a raid schedule.  All the while the T3 set bonuses essentially = having a flask on for certain classes.  Hunter mana back comparable to having distilled wisdom, mage + damage proc comparable to having supreme power, so on and so on.  Things get easier as your core get their sets so the burden should get easier when it comes to the grinding for gold for some.

Regardless of what directly the admins decide to take, raiding has always been 85% preparation in vanilla.   Regardless of what buffs are enabled / disabled / made cheaper / made inaccessible, an outside of raid preparation is still going to be 85% of what you do.  You'll just funnel that time into other consumables to make up for not have x, y, and z available. (or at least be expected to by your peers)

PS: Yes many guilds are to the point they are or have ran out of people to take ZG heart, Ony/Nef head won't be too far behind.  The server life time + lack of new blood has created this issue.  Make the quest repeatable but no additional rewards.   Thanks.

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45 minutes ago, Undertanker said:

Yeah some may complain about the "hassle" to world buff, but there is a hassle to farm flask needed for specific classes / roles on certain fights when you do not have world buffs.

so you are telling me that if your guild walked into naxx with world buffs on loatheb they would tell you and the rest of the raid to not bother flasking? 

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9 hours ago, Unbreakable said:

I'm asking why because I want to understand.  Maybe there is something about world buffs I should like but am not seeing.  All you say is "because I do" which doesn't help with any understanding.  Maybe there could be a good compromise, who knows unless the reason people like world buffs is known.

Because that's literally all there is to it. I really don't know what else to say on the subject other than "I rather have worldbuffs available". I don't feel like I need a reason for wanting something.

But I suppose I should try and explain anyway, let's see if I can think of something. Personally, I don't mind the whole process behind grabbing the world buffs before a raid. I've heard people saying "Finally I don't have to stay offline and I can play my character instead of 'raidlogging'!". Well, I have a feeling that even without having to get world buffs, they probably wouldn't play the game anyway cause there is no real reason to log in apart from farming consumables. To be honest, gathering world buffs makes the people play more rather than encouraging raid logging even more.
Also, I enjoy having the increased stats from all these buffs and I don't really get demotivated if I lose them at some point, it just happens.

It's not a big deal to me though, if they decide to disable them permanently, too bad I guess. But if I could choose between the two, I'd pick everyday having world buffs enabled. It's just a matter of preferences, and personally having them disabled permanently or even only enabled during DMF week, is an idea I simply do not like, but I'll deal with it since it seems the majority wants this change to happen.

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3 hours ago, Unbreakable said:

so you are telling me that if your guild walked into naxx with world buffs on loatheb they would tell you and the rest of the raid to not bother flasking? 

I do not speak on behalf of the officers in <Scuba Cops> and their expectancy on specific situations such as this.

All I am saying is it allows you to save money when you do have buffs if any team wished to forgo using flask while world buffed in regards to saving money, to limit gold per week farming requirements to meet the required consumables.

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Just keep worldbuffs disabled in naxx forever! (or at least for the next few months). We just downed 4 Horsemen and so far we are all having a blast progressing through naxx. Whenever you firstkill something with worldbuffs it feels like cheating. Without worldbuffing one can actually enjoy the encounters and learn how to handle them instead of having 50% of your time consumed by onyxia/ZG/DMN and then facerolling the boss.

Disabling worldbuffs was the best decision in a long long time. Thank you elysium team for this awesome raid.

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Can we have an update on this subject? These world buffs have been disabled for long enough, it would be great to see them back available at all times.

Or at the very least, confirm they will be disabled forever in Naxxramas so those few who want them can just deal with it quietly.

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