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agresif

Talent tree feedback

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Hello! this is my first post, 

Im new to warrior but i find them almost as interesting as rogues,

Recently,  ive been looking at the talent tree for warriors and i fiddled abit with different talents and now i finally think This  is how it should be for me BUT i would like some feedback on it , Whats wrong? What should i respecc? I think this should work on both leveling and end-game content.

 

 

Edited by agresif

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Some consider Anger Management the best warrior talent in the game for both tanks and fury warriors in pve. 5/5 in tactical mastery can be debatable depending on your playstyle while leveling. But if you stance dance at all you at least want enough points in tactical mastery to be able to use whatever ability you are stance dancing for.

Improved Overpower is strong when your gear is weak, it helps maintain Flurry uptime, but if you plan on using it you will want enough points in tactical mastery to be able to switch to battle stance and use an overpower immediately. 

In end game many fury warriors don't even use overpower. This is due to their crit chance being so high they don't rely on overpower to feed flurry, and the rage and time loss to have to stance dance for 1 ability. 

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Take at least 2 points out of Deflection and put them in Tactical Mastery. (you can debate no points in Deflection and instead do 2/3 improved heroic strike)
Take a point out of Improved Battle Shout and pickup Piercing Howl, it's an amazing ability for leveling and pvp.

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These are in my mind the most efficient builds:

17/34 DW-fury raid spec: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LbhxbhbZVV0VgxoVo (most common standard cookie-cutter fury build)

20/31 2h-fury raid spec: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LbhxbIbZVVkVMxoVo  (Piercring howl for utility and Gluth in Naxx).

19/32 2h-fury-slam raid spec: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LbhxbGbZVVzm0EoVo (Advanced and tricky play-style anr requires a swing-timer addon).

20/31 2h-fury lvling spec: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LMhxbIbZVVzIMxoVo (Piercing howl/Bloodcraze adds some survivability and lesser downtime, optimal spec for a lvling warrior in my opinion).

 

all in all there are 1-2 points that could be switched around depending on personal taste.

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Counter-proposal ... http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LV0xzZVEzA0xRio

Anger Management is ALWAYS ON.  In combat.  Out of combat.  Always.  It's a "free" +1 Rage every 2 seconds talent that is ALWAYS ON.  That's +30 Rage per minute.  Guess what?  You aren't going to be getting +30 Rage per minute from 5/5 Unbridled Wrath, unless if you're Dual Wielding 1.30 speed Daggers (maybe?).  That's why Anger Management is "so good" for so many Warriors.

You'd also be surprised to learn that 5/5 Improved Demoralizing Shout can reduce incoming damage pretty dramatically simply because Attack Power scales so much better for NPCs than it does for PCs.  For us, Attack Power is like 15:1 or so in terms of DPS.  For NPCs it's more like down around 2:1 or so (exact details can be found in another thread here in the Warrior Forum) which is incredibly powerful scaling.

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Thats incorrect Roxanne , out of combat anger management just slows the decay time not permanently generating rage.

on that note for PVE dps I dont think your spec is totally "viable for dps" the demo shout is nice if it is required otherwise I would just have a OT spec into it and keep it up , For a dps to use your build they would lose ALOT of dps - if you think about a dps warrior mid game to end game there ability to crit is crazy and that impale will add quite a lot more dps , Taking bloodcraze ? what for you shouldnt really being getting hit by anything that can crit you.

not taking the offhand dmg increase as a dps I dunno seems silly to me , white hits are quite alot of a physical dmg so why would you nerf that , that alone will increase rage generation aswell.

For dps I would not suggest your spec, as another tank can provide the improved Demo quite easily without nerfing there ability to tank quite easily.

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1 hour ago, Rageward said:

Thats incorrect Roxanne , out of combat anger management just slows the decay time not permanently generating rage.

Then why is it that out of combat I see my Rage going UP AND DOWN over time after combat?  The Rage decay behavior over time looks like this:

10 . 11 . 9 . 10 . 8 . 9 . 7 . 8 . 6 . 7 . 5 . 6 . 4 . 5 . 3 . 4 . 2 . 3 . 1 . 2 . 0 . 1 . 0 ... 0 ... 0

I can hit Bloodrage (untalented) while just standing around, not being attacked, and at the end of 10 seconds I've got 15 Rage, because Anger Management has been adding +1 Rage per 2 seconds even while I'm in combat.  The behavior over time looks like this:

10 . 11 . 12 . 13 . 14 . 15

 

Without Anger Management, I only see Rage go DOWN out of combat and never bump UP over time.  The Rage decay behavior over time looks like this:

10 . 8 . 6 . 4 . 2 . 0 ... 0

Likewise, without Anger Management, untalented Bloodrage generates 10 Rage ... and that's it.  The behavior over time looks like this:

10

 

Your turn.

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Well if this is the case , then the talent is broken and not as intended , it should simply delay the ammount of time for the rage to go back to 0 , IF it is indeed adding rage out of combat to your current rage then it will need to be fixed on github or atleast reworded on the tooltip to state what it is currently doing.

8 minutes ago, Roxanne Flowers said:

while I'm in combat

Im confused as to why you are saying this now ? if you said while I Am "out of combat" that would make more sense to your previous statement.

The talent doesnt really state anything about getting rage in combat.

It simply states that when you are out of combat the rage decay will be less , I Assume this persists during combat but irrelevant as there is no rage decay while being in combat.

So Basically going back to the previous thought , the talent is broken if it is adding rage. I havent got time right now to find a "source" of some kind anywhere but just reading the tooltip basically means its broken.

 

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It is true that Anger Management is broken and may very well be quite good in its broken state. It all kind of depends on how your rage situation is. As horde with WF totem I cant really say rage is ever an issue.

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The talent isn't "broken" ... because it is working exactly the way that Blizzard implemented it.  This is how it worked then, and how it works now, so Blizz-like checkbox is checked.

What you're getting hung up on is the verbiage used in the talent, which does not accurately/precisely describe what the talent actually DOES (I know, surprise).

You're thinking that Anger Management ought to simply alter the timing of the Rage Decay Ticks out of combat.  That's NOT what the talent does.

Here, have a look:

Quote

Anger Management (Arms talent tree, tier 3) generates 1 rage per 3 seconds. Before the patch 2.0 the tooltip claimed it reduced rage decay out of combat by 30%, but it was always generating rage in combat since day one (most likely due to a bug that was nontrivial to fix) and the tooltip was just clarified to reflect the real use of the talent.

So I might have my timing off slightly in my posts above, but what I wrote describes what I see playing in game.

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16 minutes ago, Roxanne Flowers said:

The talent isn't "broken" ... because it is working exactly the way that Blizzard implemented it.  This is how it worked then, and how it works now, so Blizz-like checkbox is checked.

What you're getting hung up on is the verbiage used in the talent, which does not accurately/precisely describe what the talent actually DOES (I know, surprise).

You're thinking that Anger Management ought to simply alter the timing of the Rage Decay Ticks out of combat.  That's NOT what the talent does.

Here, have a look:

So I might have my timing off slightly in my posts above, but what I wrote describes what I see playing in game.

That is quite an interesting find indeed, thanks!

TIL.

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I concede , interesting I will have to look into this more could make for better speed clears.

Well I will raise a github bug report so that the devs can eventually change this tooltip and so it displays properly.

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2 hours ago, Rageward said:

Well I will raise a github bug report so that the devs can eventually change this tooltip and so it displays properly.

Then you're going to have a problem with finding evidence that the tooltip shown right now does not match the tooltip shown in legacy 1.12.1 Vanilla WoW due to the fact that what we've got right now EXACTLY MATCHES what was shown in legacy 1.12.1 on live servers during vanilla WoW.  In other words, what we're looking at right now IS BLIZZ-LIKE for the vanilla experience.  So if there's a "mistake" here, it's one that BLIZZARD made in the first place, not one that the Elysium Project is making because they're "stupid" or anything.

So your github report would only be relevant in the context of TBC servers ... not for vanilla servers.

Good luck with that.

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Wont need the evidence if the Tooltip doesnt reflect the actual abilities mechanic really if tested they will realise this and simply just reword the tooltip , I would assume the dev arent going to be "Thats not blizzlike" about something so trivial - it just makes it easier to spec if you can actually have the correct wording.

As you have seen they do some "custom" fixes so it not completely "blizz-like" but as close as possible.

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Can confirm that blizzard admitted to the incorrect wording on Anger Management.    During 1.4 raiding in 2005 while it was still considered a "bug" warriors would blood rage pre-combat and then have a warlock sac, then one more blood rage to keep the warrior in combat and get 100 rage.

The tooltip description was never changed in Vanilla but it was "working as intended".

@Roxanne Flowers if you are not taking impale you are doing it wrong.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LhhxzhbZVVzmgxoVo

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On 10/13/2017 at 8:14 AM, Rageward said:

I would assume the dev arent going to be "Thats not blizzlike" about something so trivial

bodystairs-code-geass-anime-death-note-f

Very CONVENIENT assumption you've got going there.

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Sorry but reading the responses i was a bit confused,…so what does Anger management acctually do?

Just reading the tt i never thought it was worth spending a point on it… hm

BUT if it is indeed a rage tick (in and out of Combat) then im thinking this talent tree cant be bad

 

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LchxzhbZVV0VgxoVo

Edited by agresif

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22 minutes ago, agresif said:

Disagree on the piercing howl swap

Agree that you can take three points in Imp HS instead of deflection

Peircing howl is incredibly good Nefarian p1, some trash AQ40 and pretty much required in Naxx for Gluth. It's also really nice for have overall in open world grinding, PvP and definitely 5man dungeons.

I couldnt live without it honestly.

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^ agreed, piercing howl is criminally underrated. 5% extra attack power bonus to battle shout will never make a noticeable difference and absolutely will not make the difference between a wipe or a kill. piercing howl on the other hand WILL show a noticeable difference in any of the situations that Storfan noted, and has a large chance of saving yourself or your party/raid from a really bad situation. I'd even go as far to say that any DPS warrior not specced into piercing howl is playing his class incorrectly. 

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If we disregard weather to take a point in PH or not, (by taking one off Imp Battle,)  what do you think about Imp HS 3/3 versus 3/5 in  Deflection?

Edited by agresif

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11 hours ago, agresif said:

If we disregard weather to take a point in PH or not, (by taking one off Imp Battle,)  what do you think about Imp HS 3/3 versus 3/5 in  Deflection?

Imp HS if raiding.

Imp deflection when lvling or being a tank. You wont use HS that much when lvling so I'd say parry will serve you better from lvl 1-59.

 

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http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LbhxkhbZVV0VtxoVo

I usually use this as the base for DW, note that it is 1 point point left to spend.
you can spend it either in:

1. Imp HS: Actually better than Imp Execute when fight duration is long.
2. Imp Execute: Good in short fights.
3. Imp Overpower: Good for Flurry fishing
4. Piercing Howl: Good for some fights requiring kiting.

other variances without anger management, might be good aswell.

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