Difficulty

[Nofeartoday 3]

I am by no means someone who has played on privates a lot. I was on both realms on Nostalrius and I will put my critics here and I hope the developers can listen and do something about it before players begin with raids. Nostalrius provided a Vanilla experience to some extend, indeed. But the end-game bosses was by far not as difficult as they used to be. 

 

I suggest you improve their spells, and/or make them hit harder/altering their health. I am no developer, but I am a fan of challenges and I think users who decide to play "Blizzlike" on private expect the same. Now there is already a lot servers providing what they claim a "Vanilla" experience. That isn't true, I can speak only for Nostalrius which I personally believe had the best management and by far the best Vanilla experience, except the raid content. 

 

If the developers behind valkyrie can do something about what is mentioned above I believe more experienced users who want that same "challenge" will come. Because if you look at the expansions released after Burning Crusade, there is no challenge anymore, they simply decided to make their content easier in hope to gain more players. 

 

Take it into consideration, because providing same or similar difficulty as other realms isn't going to make you any different. 

 

I'd also suggest you to open Zul'Gurub before Molten Core, on Nostalrius you could be twenty players in a 40-man dungeon and still take down several bosses, how is that competitive and I don't understand how users find that enjoyable. 

 

Cheers

[Xudojnik 904]

You want challenges, but you ask to open ZG before MC.

Running MC in 5ppl gear is challenging enough.

Everything else should be blizzlike.

[Mandoss 4]

The only reason the bosses are "easy" is because it is patch 1.12.1, all classes had talents revamped multiple times. I suggest looking up the talent trees for patch 1.0 or any of the early vanilla patches and see how absolutely garbage they were back then. TONS more damage gained from talent reworks. Also 12+ years of theorycrafting and knowledge. People literally went into MC with full t0 because they didnt know better, nowadays people understand how to itemize for their class/role.

[Cascade 0]

We were 17 players on Nostalrius PVP in totally garbage gear and yet we were able to take down several bosses. Don't blame the talents, this is not about knowledge or theorycrafting. Any user reading a guide on the internet could have done the same thing. 

 

ZG before MC is a good idea if you want to keep a "healthy" economy. 

 

Also admins might want to reduce the timer for entering wrong password on the forum. nft got "locked" for 700+ hours. 

[Walgrave 10]

@Anostrich

 

So Elysium will have regular retail health/damage with 1.12 specs/gear? This is part of why people are frustrated with Kronos, how easy the content is. 

[OmenELY 0]

I dont agree to opening Zul'Gurub before Molten Core, keep as much of a original content release in my opinion.

 

However, i do agree that the endgame encounters needs to be tuned up slightly to make it more interesting, instead of a walkover to most.

 

I believe the majority of the playerbase has a desire for this, ergo its also why players from the Kronos realms decides to play here.

[Ribar 0]

Hello everyone, 

 

 

 

First of all I'd like to thank the developers for so far smooth and enjoyable server launch, apart from some minor issues (that I am sure are being worked on) things are looking quite good and I am especially pleased to hear about fast updates and fixes so far. I have been around the vanilla priv server scene for around 5 years and  it is nice to see so many veterans from previous servers coming here.

 

The thing I want to point out is that those same veterans are the lifeblood of the endgame scene on any vanilla server, by now they have been to several servers and are looking to for a server that will be as enjoyable as possible. By now everyone knows all the tactics, mechanics, bis and pre raid bis gear, consumables and everything needed to make the raiding this content be effortless experience on 1.12 patch talents and items. 

 

Deciding not to buff bosses health and damage and leave it Blizzlike will make those same veteran players simply pick up and leave   After doing the same content year after year I belive that there needs to be an element to it that will keep it fresh for the veterans. Of course no one is expecting a reworked MC or BWL that will provide a totally new experience to the players but there has to be an element to it to keep the things interesting.  it is as simple as that. There are already servers that cater to those who enjoy zerging throu content. If we take Kronos (who also has blizzlike HP values on bosses ) for example there are pugs who clear MC in blues without a wipe... I agree Blizzard did a terrific job back in the day but do you really think such things will give us "flavour and experience" of past times?

 

I know people and to a lesser extent guilds that refused to join Kronos or quit upon trying raiding because of those retail values on 1.12 patch in 2016... 

 

So once again I implore you to reconsider this. You have a chance to make something unique and enjoyable for both veterans and the new players, good word travels fast and far and I think you will be surprised by the interest it will create if buffing and tweaking is done right. 

 

Balancing of course is a bit of an issue.. but there's trial and error, there's PTR and I assure you there's enough of veteran players that are willing to help you guys test balancing to everyone's sathisfaction. 

 

Just my two cents. 

[Xudojnik 904]

You, guys, want some new experience from 10 years old instance?

[Walgrave 10]

Did you even read his post, Xudo? 

 

"Of course no one is expecting a reworked MC or BWL that will provide a totally new experience to the players but there has to be an element to it to keep the things interesting."

 

Elysium will literally offer nothing to returning veteran vanilla players if they allow content to be easy and boring. There are many approaches to tuning difficulty to reflect 1.12 talents/gear. Elysium wants to be Kronos 3 or something with retail dmg/values? Because people can kill these bosses with their eyes closed. 

Edited August 23, 2016 by Walgrave

[Xudojnik 904]

It is really not a server problem, that some players passed the game multiple times.

May be you should try to take a rest?

[Walgrave 10]

All raiding guilds have people who have done it many times. You want the existing vanilla community to just stop playing vanilla? You make no sense. Even the most populated guilds on Elysium (Alliance side at least) are from Nost and prior server before that.

 

Either way, the question was to the devs. Your opinion remains yours. Besides, it is NOT blizzlike to release MC/BWL with 1.12 gear/talents. 

Edited August 23, 2016 by Walgrave

[Ribar 0]

It is really not a server problem, that some players passed the game multiple times.

 

 

It is not quite fair to complicate things more than it is expected for the reason there are a lot of different people playing.

 

In my opinion this is the core of the issue, I firmly belive that at the moment with this population a vast majority of the players who plan to do end game content here has done it multiple times over the years on other servers. 

 

There just arent that many new people coming to the server, you got your russian base from Valkyrie and you've got players from other servers who are a part of vanilla community and are keeping tabs on all the current and upcoming servers. Everywhere I look I recognize people and guilds from previous servers so I think that by the time it's time to try raiding the percentage of the players that havent done it before  wont be around 70%... it will be closer to 7%. 

 

And guess what? 

 

Our aim is not to best Blizzard but to give you guys the flavour and experince of time long gone by.

 How do you think those new players flavour and experience will be if they are experiencing content "progression"  where everything is one shotted as they are surrounded by veterans with maxed consumables doing 1k+ dps on average? I personally dont think they'll enjoy it too much..

 

As for itemization I think that would be a good first step and totally agree that community has to get involved to help you guys with this. 

But I honestly dont think that will make enough of a change. I just cant shake the feeling that this was a good clean slate and an opportunity to create something a bit unique that will make you stand out from the competition utilizing the downsides of the current most populated vanilla servers. 

[Xudojnik 904]

In order to let us fulfill this soon you guys as a community have to create and fill the appropriate detailed list of things to be possibly tweaked.

Moreover it is required to decide on how many steps (patches) should it include.

Fair enough.

You want it? Make it.

[killerduki 54]

Keep items 1.12.1 Please , Paladin Items Pre 1.9 Does not Match with 1.12 because whole Paladin System was revamp and changed at 1.9.

 

Example T2 in 1.12 Patch is Retribution Set , Since Retribution was changed to work with Spell Damage.

T2 pre 1.12 Patch was Holy Set with lot of Strength but Pre 1.9 Patch Seal of Command was working with 100% of Weapon Damage, There was different Seals and different Style.

 

 

Changing Items might benefit certain Classes like Warriors/Rogues while many others will damage from it.

 

Actually using "Old Items" is not Nerf but the opposite regarding Tanks because plenty of those Items offer you more +Def and Stamina than 1.12 Patch.

 

Maybe for Mages,Warlock,Rogues,Warrior DPS pre 1.9 is Nerf but Tanking Items are Overpowered.

Paladin will get completely wiped out with pre 1.9 so this is complicated if you guys decide. (only because someone wants overpowered doesn't mean it match for everyone).

 

Deathbone for Old Patches was useless Set except Chest, but then again Paladin Tanks had different Talents/Seals for that Cost.

(Seal of Fury) was Based on "swings and ticks" instead Damage and gave extraordinary threats, Mana was not needed for Tanking etc.

 

After 1.9 All Spells was changed and Items like Deathbone was strongly required as Preraid, Spell Damage Weapon was required for Aggro and so on.

 

 

This was big Issue in -Nost--  and there was Topics regarding Items issue not compatible with Classes and Spec.

 

Examples:

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=603&p=4998&hilit=tier+set#p4998

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=16607&p=105553&hilit=tier+set#p105553

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=22422&p=152405&hilit=tier+set#p152405

https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25476&hilit=tier+set#p177919

 

The Reason why Raids are easy in K - N etc is because of bad scripted Patt,Ability usage etc.

 

People needs to investigate deeper regarding each Mob/Boss Ability using and timing in Raids.

 

For Example in --Nos--  many Bosses was poorly Scripted and plenty of them did not use their Abilities / Mechanics properly.

 

/Kind Regards Killerduki

Edited August 23, 2016 by killerduki

[Motorbreath 923]

You may wanna consider creating hardcore PvE guild with gear and/or raid quantity restrictions to make it more interesting.

 

Something like that for example.

[Walgrave 10]

@Killerduki That's the whole point of nerfing items. To reduce player's power so Molten Core/Onyxia is less of a faceroll, It will definitely hurt some classes more than others, but that's how vanilla was. Items were introduced after MC/BWL even AQ to help boost some specs. In 1.12 setting, nothing will be interesting for experienced players, which will obviously mean more people quitting, less promotion, so on. Nost introduced vanilla with Patch 1.4, there is a reason for its success. 

 

@Motorbreath Should tell Usain Bolt to shoot himself in the foot to make Olympics more competitive for him? 

 

PMed anostrich regarding list of item stats rollback source. 

Edited August 25, 2016 by Walgrave

[killerduki 54]

@Killerduki That's the whole point of nerfing items. To reduce player's power so Molten Core/Onyxia is less of a faceroll, It will definitely hurt some classes more than others, but that's how vanilla was. Items were introduced after MC/BWL even AQ to help boost some specs. In 1.12 setting, nothing will be interesting for experienced players, which will obviously mean more people quitting, less promotion, so on. Nost introduced vanilla with Patch 1.4, there is a reason for its success. 

 

@Motorbreath Should tell Usain Bolt to shoot himself in the foot to make Olympics more competitive for him? 

 

PMed anostrich regarding list of item stats rollback source. 

 

 

I don't Like Paladin 1.12 Abilities with Gear from pre 1.9 to see, only because someone decide to change the way of how it is (Non Blizzlike and doesn't match).

 

It is not compatibile so we are useless without any kind of Gear.  (Better play Naked).

 

1.12 Abilities work only with 1.9+ Gear.   Pre 1.9 Gear work only with Pre 1.9 Abilities.

 

Imagine if Warriors end up to use "Spell Damage instead Str Gear" will for them be good? Ofc not.  Paladin is Vice Versa in  that case (logically) .

Edited August 25, 2016 by killerduki

[Walgrave 10]

Again, it isn't about what we like or not. If we want (more) authentic vanilla experience (by at least getting proper items for the appropriate progression, if not spells and talents) than we have to make some sacrifices, those sacrifices have to be the overpowered stats of items from 1.12 or more tuned bosses. Tbh I doubt either will be done on this server, so there's nothing to worry about for you. 

 

I personally am not a hardcore player. Always preferred more social but smooth raids. Yet progression is so dull now, with players knowing all fights and being decked out in Patch 1.12 items for content that was released in Patch 1.2/Patch 1.6 (MC/BWL respectively) or progressing AQ40 with craftable NR gear which came out after AQ40. It's all very boring even to a non-hardcore player. Nothing is rewarding, so why play on these servers?

 

So many people are just waiting for a project that will actually keep them awake in MC/BWL.  

[Xudojnik 904]

Edited August 25, 2016 by Xudojnik

[Motorbreath 923]

@Motorbreath Should tell Usain Bolt to shoot himself in the foot to make Olympics more competitive for him? 

 

More proper analogy would be auto racing.

There are restrictions: horsepower to weight ratio and all this, you know. They are using air restrictors and burden to make cars almost equal.

So there would be a competition.

You've got your answer from developing team, so either go repeat Nost's team effort, make a program, that will automatically gather the gear info from outdated wow databases using waybackengine.

Or do what I propose as an alternative.

There is no easy way to hardcore, you see. Requiers some dedication.

[Ignimortis 1496]

Here's the thing.

We might have done this, perhaps, if this was suggested and full info was provided before the release. 

You've provided reasons against the rollback yourselves, really. It's not about items or talents - it's just that back then the players were new to the game and didn't know anything. MC is incredibly simple mechanics-wise by itself, and nothing will change that. Opening ZG before MC would make it even more trivial, since it's a catchup dungeon. 
Besides, running a change like that on a server that's been released has potentially devastating results. It can create a slew of bugs seemingly unrelated to the items whatsoever. 
So in the end, it's an issue that can make it or break it, and to be honest, the latter is more likely.

[TheFishyOne 9]

Guys, did you ever think that maybe Vanilla has been done to death?

If you find the content boring, the problem is that you have overplayed it. As Rodney Carrington once said, you csn only eat so many green M&Ms before you go "вау it, I want a red one!" Try a new class or spec, or maybe try a different game for a ehile.

Once you make a custom change, it becomes that much easier to make the next one.

[Redcap 6]

For the people mentioning how easy raiding might be with 1.12.1 full talents available, player knowledge being what it is, full raid buffs being used, etc., a big thing to keep in mind is that back in 2004 to early 2005, people largely did NOT raid in full PvE builds. Warrior tanks, for instance, took protection talents to Last Stand only and dumped the remainder of their points in Fury or Arms. This was actually recommended back on the early forum boards. Some exceptions to this existed, like Resto Druids being forced to spec deep for Innervate before it became baseline. Largely though, people raided in their pve farming or pvp battleground specs, and no one really called each other on it. AQ was largely the big launching point for whole raid groups using true raid specs. And there were a LOT of complaints regarding AQ on two points at that time - 1) endless farming for Nature Resist pot reagents and 2) trashing 50 gold per respec every week like clockwork.

 

Leave Elysium's setup alone, and simply use less min-maxed specs as well as off spec classes for roles. There's your difficulty increase if you want it so badly.

[killerduki 54]

People think that using 1.12 Raiding is Easy, this is false and illusion.

 

In Fact 1.12 is Naxx !

 

How many servers have Naxx properly Scripted?  1 (not fully nor properly but close to).

 

How many servers are told that 1.12 is easy ? All.

 

Now if you compare "All Servers" is only Lower Tier Raiding compare to High Tier Raiding.

 

With properly Scripted and working 1.12 Naxx will be hard for many, which also counter the fact that Vanilla using 1.12 talent is easy.

 

Don't get Confused with "Feen", they have so many Overpowered Abilities (non Blizzlike) and non properly Scripted Bosses. (the reason why there is easy).

 

With Blizzlike server Naxx 1.12 will be very hard.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki.

Edited August 31, 2016 by killerduki

[Milky 1]

Here's the thing.

We might have done this, perhaps, if this was suggested and full info was provided before the release. 

You've provided reasons against the rollback yourselves, really. It's not about items or talents - it's just that back then the players were new to the game and didn't know anything. MC is incredibly simple mechanics-wise by itself, and nothing will change that. Opening ZG before MC would make it even more trivial, since it's a catchup dungeon. 

Besides, running a change like that on a server that's been released has potentially devastating results. It can create a slew of bugs seemingly unrelated to the items whatsoever. 

So in the end, it's an issue that can make it or break it, and to be honest, the latter is more likely.

 

I agree with OP. You didn't have to do it before release, when someone can kill 3 bosses in MC with 20 people not all level 60 you know you have a problem. Increasing the damage the bosses do or trash, isn't difficult and from a team that has 7 years experience with wow emulation, one would have thought a Blizzlike server wouldn't turn out to be a circus like all other vanilla servers seems to be. Nostalrius is probably the only server that actually had dungeons and raids very similar to blizzlike. What reasons do someone have to play on Elysium if it's all the same? Nostalrius had such a high playerbase because it was so different from everyone else.

 

Make an example of them instead of being like everyone else.