Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
killerduki

Rage explained by Blizzard

Recommended Posts

I see many people missdirect how rage and warriors work and many false information was spread across private servers.

 

Confirmation that this is Originally by WoW Blue Poster : http://web.archive.org/web/20071012151506/http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=83678537&pageNo=1&sid=1

 

Here is what Blue post official by Blizzard shows back in 2006 at pre TBC period:

 

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/18325-the-new-rage-formula-by-kalgan/

2006/11/16 08:10:26 PM

 

Those are definitely inaccurate.

Here are the current rage generation formulae (note: these are slightly different than the ones which are on the current public test realms).

The notable changes include an update to offhand rage generation (previously it was not being normalized correctly), and an improvement to rage generation from crits (essentially, crits now generate double the rage the hit would have ordinarily caused). The later change should help ensure that certain specs (ie: sword specialization) don't become clearly superior to crit-enhancing specializations like Axe/Polearm.

For Dealing Damage:
Main Hand Normal Hits: Factor=2.5
Main Hand Crits: Factor=5.0
Off Hand Normal Hits: Factor=1.25
Off Hand Crits: Factor=2.5

Rage Conversion Value (note: this number is derived from other values within the game such as a mob's hit points and a warrior's expected damage value against that mob):

Rage Conversion at level 60: 230.6
Rage Conversion at level 70: 274.7

Expansion Rage Gained from dealing damage = ((Damage Dealt) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 7.5 + (Weapon Speed * Factor))/2

Pre-Expansion Rage Gained from dealing damage = (Damage Dealt) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 7.5


For Taking Damage (both pre and post expansion):
Rage Gained = (Damage Taken) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 2.5

 

 

 

Can we have some confirmation that Rage act like description explained by Elysium Dev/GM ?

Edited by killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bump:  Concerned if there was/is going to be any "changes" to the way rage worked on Nost.  This determines itemization.

 

Also, I chose NE solely based on the already established rage gen rates, if things are "changed"  RIP not being human.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the linked tank conversion numbers:

 

Let's say I hit with my 1.9 second weapon for 250 on average.    I'd get 3.8 rage, we drop the remainder so I get 3 rage a hit.

 

That means I'd have to auto for 9.5 seconds to have enough rage for 1 Sunder armor.   RIP.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It makes for a better game as well. Axes/swords/maces all have a relevance depending on specialization and itemization vs everyone running around with Finkles/Alcors.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Looking at the linked tank conversion numbers:

 

Let's say I hit with my 1.9 second weapon for 250 on average.    I'd get 3.8 rage, we drop the remainder so I get 3 rage a hit.

 

That means I'd have to auto for 9.5 seconds to have enough rage for 1 Sunder armor.   RIP.

 

Rage Fix will make Arms Warriors stronger or so close to Fury on DPS while Fury will have major Nerf ;)

 

Also it will be huge nerf for Prot Warriors sadly :(

 

You won't be seeing 1k DPS anymore like you used to until fix occur and Threats will be huge problems.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Threat wont be a huge problem. Tanks will have to just readjust and itemize differently. It actually makes the game better and more fun. Plus its the way it was originally intended. Nost was a great and fun server, but it was quite broken.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah I just hate if this happens I am NE.  If I knew it was gonna change, would have been human, Tank Race nerf.   But at least dodge is still good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, there are other issues i will need to see if this server can handle, but properly scripted or near properly scripted rage is a big deal for me so id hope they'd address it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope they finally fix critters. On Nostalrius the critters gave 0 rage. They used to be great little source of rage generation between pulls, and were wonderful when defending Farm in Arathi Basin. As small an issue as this is, it was one of the first glaring bugs I noticed in the game which I used to benefit from greatly back in the day. Sweeping Strikes was also gimped, but that's a different thread.

Edited by Xom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope they finally fix critters. On Nostalrius the critters gave 0 rage. They used to be great little source of rage generation between pulls, and were wonderful when defending Farm in Arathi Basin. As small an issue as this is, it was one of the first glaring bugs I noticed in the game which I used to benefit from greatly back in the day. Sweeping Strikes was also gimped, but that's a different thread.

 

If Rage get fixed, then they will remain give you 0 rage ;) .

 

How much damage can Critter do on you ? Then divide it to 230.6 .

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh you misunderstood me. Warriors are supposed to be able to hit critters to gain rage. This was not the case on Nost.

 

Back in the day when you would get a lucky white crit on a critter before a pull you'd get a huge chunk of rage, it was wonderful. And since they're level 1 and no AC, they gave lots of rage when you crit. I thought this was totally common knowledge - it's even documented in wikis about Warrior Rage that critters are specifically put into dungeons for Warriors to use to bank rage.

Edited by Xom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They removed any benefits from critters for a reason to prevent abusing of Game mechanic such as :

 

Reckoning stacks for Paladins, Rage for Warriors and stuffs like that .

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What, really? That makes me sad. Critters in dungeons were there specifically as "Rage Batteries" for Warriors. That's a feature, not a bug. :( What ever happened to interesting use of game mechanics?

 

They always gave Rage back in the day, then on Private servers it's a problem? I don't understand what the problem is.

 

edit - here is a thread discussing rage gen (search for critters) where multiple people mention this being a well known feature which isn't around anymore

Edited by Xom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What, really? That makes me sad. Critters in dungeons were there specifically as "Rage Batteries" for Warriors. That's a feature, not a bug. :( What ever happened to interesting use of game mechanics?

 

They always gave Rage back in the day, then on Private servers it's a problem? I don't understand what the problem is.

 

edit - here is a thread discussing rage gen (search for critters) where multiple people mention this being a well known feature which isn't around anymore

 

Feenix was very bugged server and even if you tend to say that "retail" critters was factor for "Rage", let calculate according to "damage taken" formula explained by Blizzard and the damage output by Critters , how much Rage would that end up ?

 

Critter damage - 1 or maybe 10 and then divide this to 230.6 .

 

Results are clear , no rage gain from Critters during Vanilla either.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hold on, nothing is clear at all. I don't care about Feenix, so mentioning how bugged their server is? not sure why that's relevant. We're discussing original Rage generation from hitting critters, not anything about their model.

 

I liked that forum only to show that others remember Critters being batteries for Rage as well. How is that unclear? It has been a feature in retail WoW since the beginning, and I think it still is there. Private servers is the first place I've seen this feature lacking.

 

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Rage (search for critter)

 

"Attacking critters like snakes or rats can be excellent for banking (rage)"

 

I have found a strategy guide dating back from 2007 urging raiders to leave the critters for Warriors to use between pulls for more rage/Threat.

 

I played in Vanilla and remember Warriors being so jealous of the rats/critters, it was a mini-game in itself.  I remember it - you hit critters for rage, it was a part of the game. For some reason on Private Servers they don't have this. I thought as Testers/Players we were supposed to give our feedback so that things could be sorted out as to be most like the way things were as possible. Multiple people know this was a thing, so I am flummoxed that there's any resistance to this information. I'm sure others here remember it as well.

 

I know it may seem like a trivial thing, but as a Tank with hungry DPS every little bit counts. I don't see how it's useful at all to have removed this feature of the game. I can understand how having a Paladin sit/crit/Reckbomb might make people cry nerf - it's kind of ridiculous to nerf Critters in general. A little ham-handed. What would you be giving Warriors? oo oh no, some quickly degrading Rage, oh dear me. really it baffles me that this should be anything more than "oh you remember that? okay... does anyone else remember it? yes? oh ok let's get that fixed right away"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Killerduki, he isn't talking about taking damage from a critter.   He is talking about killing the critter = more rage.    That is blizzlike.    I used to have to yell at the rogues and hunters 1 shotting critters in Scholo as we moved along because they were causing my rage pool to go to 0 before we got to where we were going.

 

 

If they want to prevent a Pally from Recking Bomb people off critter crits, just turn off the auto attack from the critters, but not giving warriors rage when we kill them is a bug. (no pun intended)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok then i misunderstood , i apologize .

 

Still they removed Rage and Reck from Critters to prevent World PVP abusing :( .

 

I remember there was official post by Nostalrius back in the days , maybe Pottu can release us this info if he can find it there ;)

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't this sound a little.. unrealistic? I could be wrong so please correct me! 
 
If the earlier stated formula for rage generation indeed is correct, how could one possibly be viable as arms warrior? If you crit 2000 with a 2 hand weapon, you get roughly 9.33 rage*? So one would have to score at best 3 massive crits each swing for 10.5 seconds in order to do _one_ Mortal Strike? If we assume each of these three swings is a crit, it's a minimum of 10.5 seconds before the first MS. And making a 2000 crit is not really realistic unless it is a cloth wearer.

 

*My calculations are ((2000/(230.6*7.5)) + 3.5*5.0)/2 ~9.33 rage (Assuming you use Ashkandi for the 3.5 speed)
Expansion Rage Gained from dealing damage = ((Damage Dealt) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 7.5 + (Weapon Speed * Factor))/2

This would be a 60 mob or player. How would this work in a boss fight? Arms warriors wouldn't ever be able to use their abilities. 


According to this source below, the rage generation is different and somewhat as I would expect it to be:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/index.php?title=Rage&oldid=195687

How come this is not possibly correct, Killerduki? I find the first one very hard to believe if my calculations indeed are correct (please correct me if I am wrong). In this video dating back to 2006, a guy critting a mob for 1001 damage gets enough rage to to a Mortal Strike at 1:25: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILH-CdfvVfI 
Note how the enemy misses him aswell, and his combat log is up to read all about it. This means his crit of 1001 damage generates enough rage to do a mortal strike. He sure has got blood rage up, but it generates only 2 rage during that time. 

How come he doesn't gain just ((1000/(230.6*7.5)+(3.8*5.0))/2 ~ 10 rage? Instead he seems to be getting a little above 30 rage. Perhaps exactly 1001/30 = 33.36...67 rage. Like the wowwiki source would tell us? As I can see it, nothing really makes sense. Provide more evidence please, Killerduki.

Edited by Phnom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't this sound a little.. unrealistic? I could be wrong so please correct me! 

 

If the earlier stated formula for rage generation indeed is correct, how could one possibly be viable as arms warrior? If you crit 2000 with a 2 hand weapon, you get roughly 9.33 rage*? So one would have to score at best 3 massive crits each swing for 10.5 seconds in order to do _one_ Mortal Strike? If we assume each of these three swings is a crit, it's a minimum of 10.5 seconds before the first MS. And making a 2000 crit is not really realistic unless it is a cloth wearer.

 

*My calculations are ((2000/(230.6*7.5)) + 3.5*5.0)/2 ~9.33 rage (Assuming you use Ashkandi for the 3.5 speed)

Expansion Rage Gained from dealing damage = ((Damage Dealt) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 7.5 + (Weapon Speed * Factor))/2

This would be a 60 mob or player. How would this work in a boss fight? Arms warriors wouldn't ever be able to use their abilities. 

According to this source below, the rage generation is different and somewhat as I would expect it to be:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/index.php?title=Rage&oldid=195687

How come this is not possibly correct, Killerduki? I find the first one very hard to believe if my calculations indeed are correct (please correct me if I am wrong). In this video dating back to 2006, a guy critting a mob for 1001 damage gets enough rage to to a Mortal Strike at 1:25: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILH-CdfvVfI 

Note how the enemy misses him aswell, and his combat log is up to read all about it. This means his crit of 1001 damage generates enough rage to do a mortal strike. He sure has got blood rage up, but it generates only 2 rage during that time. 

How come he doesn't gain just ((1000/(230.6*7.5)+(3.8*5.0))/2 ~ 10 rage? Instead he seems to be getting a little above 30 rage. Perhaps exactly 1001/30 = 33.36...67 rage. Like the wowwiki source would tell us? As I can see it, nothing really makes sense. Provide more evidence please, Killerduki.

The post linked in this thread was made during the TBC beta. Do you not see where it clearly says

Expansion Rage Gained from dealing damage = ((Damage Dealt) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 7.5 + (Weapon Speed * Factor))/2

Pre-Expansion Rage Gained from dealing damage = (Damage Dealt) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 7.5

aka dealing 2000 damage would give you 65 rage, which is how it was on nostalrius(1 rage per 30dmg dealt)

 

refer to this post for more examples https://forum.nostalrius.org/viewtopic.php?f=76&t=44838#p317981

 

Edited by slippery

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Doesn't this sound a little.. unrealistic? I could be wrong so please correct me! 

 

If the earlier stated formula for rage generation indeed is correct, how could one possibly be viable as arms warrior? If you crit 2000 with a 2 hand weapon, you get roughly 9.33 rage*? So one would have to score at best 3 massive crits each swing for 10.5 seconds in order to do _one_ Mortal Strike? If we assume each of these three swings is a crit, it's a minimum of 10.5 seconds before the first MS. And making a 2000 crit is not really realistic unless it is a cloth wearer.

 

*My calculations are ((2000/(230.6*7.5)) + 3.5*5.0)/2 ~9.33 rage (Assuming you use Ashkandi for the 3.5 speed)

Expansion Rage Gained from dealing damage = ((Damage Dealt) / (Rage Conversion at Your Level) * 7.5 + (Weapon Speed * Factor))/2

This would be a 60 mob or player. How would this work in a boss fight? Arms warriors wouldn't ever be able to use their abilities. 

According to this source below, the rage generation is different and somewhat as I would expect it to be:

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/index.php?title=Rage&oldid=195687

How come this is not possibly correct, Killerduki? I find the first one very hard to believe if my calculations indeed are correct (please correct me if I am wrong). In this video dating back to 2006, a guy critting a mob for 1001 damage gets enough rage to to a Mortal Strike at 1:25: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILH-CdfvVfI 

Note how the enemy misses him aswell, and his combat log is up to read all about it. This means his crit of 1001 damage generates enough rage to do a mortal strike. He sure has got blood rage up, but it generates only 2 rage during that time. 

How come he doesn't gain just ((1000/(230.6*7.5)+(3.8*5.0))/2 ~ 10 rage? Instead he seems to be getting a little above 30 rage. Perhaps exactly 1001/30 = 33.36...67 rage. Like the wowwiki source would tell us? As I can see it, nothing really makes sense. Provide more evidence please, Killerduki.

 

Your calculations are wrong m8

 

According to http://www.mathgoodies.com/lessons/vol7/order_operations.html

 

The Rage generation from 1000 will be :

 

(1000 / 230.6 ) = 4.336****  Damage and Rage Conversion

4.336... * 7.5 = 32.5xxxxxx Rage from Swing.

 

On the Video you posted :

 

Fire Damage return increase the Rage from person (i already requested in another Topic to Undertanker to dig up for this source where Fire damage also increase Rage) .

 

Damage Taken also increase the Rage a bit.

 

You can see that as Evidence at 00:12 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILH-CdfvVfI shown on the Combat log where he constantly damage return and receive huge amount of Rage.

 

Regarding Avoidance you can see at 00:16 he receive huge amount of Miss/Dodge/Parry and he receive no Rage at all.

 

At 00:18 you see he receive 3 Swings that reward him 3x (yet unknown how much rage but it shows too high) from Fire Damage Return + 6 Rage from Damage Taken +

30 Rage from the 929 Crit he did .

36 Rage from Dmg Done+Dmg Taken + Fire Damage Return (yet unknown) he result on the screenshot with 40 Rage which confirmed my claim about Formula.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice find Phnom.  I noticed he got a decent amount of rage when he parried and dodged as well, #NoRageStarvationDream

Regarding Avoidance you can see at 00:16 he receive huge amount of Miss/Dodge/Parry and he receive no Rage at all.

Use Google Chrome and slow the speed down to 0.25 via Html .

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Regarding Avoidance you can see at 00:16 he receive huge amount of Miss/Dodge/Parry and he receive no Rage at all.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

 

He does receive rage from the dodge, remember what is hitting him is a weak mob.   It won't give him much rage dodging a weak hit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×