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simppi

"Full" arcane raiding.

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I feel like you're trying to argue just to argue at this point. If you want to play and raid as arcane, go right ahead. If you can't see the valid rasons why the frost build is better, I can't help you anymore.

I'm arguing because nobody has provided any concrete proof, just things that anybody can see if you take a min to look over the talent trees. That isnt definite proof if you don't know all the other factors that plays into dps.

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I'm arguing because nobody has provided any concrete proof, just things that anybody can see if you take a min to look over the talent trees. That isnt definite proof if you don't know all the other factors that plays into dps.

 

 

...........

 

 

Frost tree increases damage by frost spells by 6%, no increased damage % for arcane.     Frost gets 100% crit strike damage bonus = so your spell crits do 200% of normal damage instead of 150%.   Arcane does not get this.   Not to mention 15% less spell cost of your frost spells.    

 

Val does a pulsing ability to everybody in the raid so casting frost bolt get's a lot of spell pushback lowering your dps.   Arcane missile can spec into 100% reduced pushback so they can spam spells better on this fight.

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I did pure Arcane raiding on Nostalrius and cleared all content. It's worse than Frost, but the difference isn't as major as some people are claiming in this thread. You'll have to tryhard with pots/runes because it's extremely mana inefficient and you'll gear differently to Frost.

 

I don't really want to get into arguments on forums, but please feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions.

Edited by Deathlace

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I did pure Arcane raiding on Nostalrius and cleared all content. It's worse than Frost, but the difference isn't as major as some people are claiming in this thread. You'll have to tryhard with pots/runes because it's extremely mana inefficient and you'll gear differently to Frost.

 

I don't really want to get into arguments on forums, but please feel free to PM me if you have any specific questions.

Did you measure or do you have any idea of how long you could dps before you went oom?

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Did you measure or do you have any idea of how long you could dps before you went oom?

 

In raids that were available on Nostalrius, I only went OOM on Nefarian unless I tryharded with Demonic Runes. No doubt as harder raids open up, the number of these fights will go up.

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AM does 9% higher base damage, but with the 6% damage from the frost tree, that is reduced to 3%, which is then outweighed by the increase crit damage % in frost. This is then outweighed even more by Winter's Chill which you will have in a raid as Frost, either from yourself or some other mage.

It's simple math.

Besides, it's not like this game started yesterday, this is 12 year old content. Do you really think people haven't tried this out yet hundreds, if not thousands of times? Frost for MC / BWL, fire for AQ / Naxx.

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My mage class leader during real aq/naxx was elementalist. I raided every content full fire. We had an arcane mage.

Back in the days the game and the players had soul.

Today, everything is about min-maxing. I dislike that.

 

Sure, arcane is suboptimal. But hey, it...

a) ...is the only spellcaster with zero spellpushback on its own

b) ...is not suffering from fire and frost resistances

c) ...improves all aspects of a mage to some degree (arcane power profits fire/frost spells etc)

d) ...has 4% more hit

e) ...profits much more from spirit. Arcane Missiles -> clearcast means 10 seconds without spellcasting for mana reg

f) ...has improved Counterspell!

 

 

Sure. Arcane is shit. So is druid feral, druid balance, elemental shaman, enhancement, pure destruction warlock, pure demonology, poison rogue, full discipline, full holy priest, shockadin, smiter, survival or beast master hunter in raids and so on. Almost all specs are trash and you will end up with the same bunch of surrogates of their classes optimal but boring spec. So exciting.

Soulless. But hey, some of you have filthy peasants to laugh about.

 

I argue that a well played arcane mage is much more valuable for a dungeon or raid than a mindless idiot who just follows the cookiecutter guide and plays horrible.

You top meters? Couldn't care less.

You interrupt spells, decurse, sheep reliable and migrate damage with Fire/Frost Ward? That's really cool :)

 

I dislike the elitist position that some people have. Just enjoy the game your way and don't be arrogant against unusual specs. This is not World of Min-maxcraft.

Edited by Mahtan

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Im caught up on the fact you claim to have raided all content as fire.... I am pretty sure your guild loved carrying you through MC since you refused to be useful and went fire to a fire raid.

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Actual MC was a mess. I raided in full t0. It worked. It was magical and we had fun. A bunch of us even had a real life meeting and played party games together.
A social group doesnt care about every percent of performance. When WoW was a social game...

I truly miss that sometimes.

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Well where do you draw the line with these sub optimal specs?  Is it ok if someone wants to be a melee mage who just auto attacks the boss with a staff while spamming arcane explosion?  According to you if they enjoy that spec and can sheep/decurse/interrupt then you are ok with that.

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Also going to call out BS on you claiming to have raided ALL content as fire since I doubt any guild would take a player who wants to "play for fun as whatever spec he wants" to AQ40 or Naxx.

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I spammed Frostbolt in MC

btw rank aggro was a huge problem back in the days.

oh and there were no reliable dps meter during real MC when it was new.

 

lol

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I said a damage report... please learn to read or at least comprehend. So you went as fire.... and spammed frost bolt. Yea, that sounds amazing. Can you make a tutorial on how to build this fire spec for frostbolt spam?

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