Becoming a lock as an Ally[PvP]

[Porta 10]

Looking to hear opinions on playing a human warlock(fuq gnomes) and if it's worth it.

- is Succubus the only 'viable' option in solo pvp?

- blacksmiths fear immunity trinket, worth it or nah? (I like it as a druid)

- overall experience you or friends have had as an Ally lock? Is the 80% ud horde race balance gamebreaking?

Give me some insight and thanks!

Edited December 29, 2016 by Porta

[Dexev 3]

My experience playing an alliance warlock is that I hate priests. Facing an extra class with magic dispel sounds awful. That dispel can remove much more of your arsenal than just fear. I think I'd rather stick with dealing with WotF.

The only time I think WotF really hurts is 1vX situations in the world. Assuming the X are bad, the fear could be lifesaving. I honestly don't think it's that much of a big deal in groups or even 1v1.

If you wanna play the succubus solo pvp style then probably best to stick to horde (Orc). For everything else  the WotF problem is exaggerated,  just give it a go. You should really reconsider Gnome though, Escape Artist is amazing :P

Edited December 29, 2016 by Dexev

[Porta 10]

Hmm I can see why having purge and dispelling priests can be problematic. Though I rarely play SL so that's one less buff to take into acc. Not a big void user either so I am not too worried about relying on sac.

yeah, the main problem i'm foreseeing are an overwhelming amount of ud rogues. But I guess i'd just have to force them to pop wotf asap

I was considering orc too, but i'm not too big a fan of the models as a caster. The hardiness racial is really amazing though.. aswel as the pet buffs. Gnomes racial amazing too..but noway i'm being some giant headed midget :P 

 

[Dexev 3]

To clarify I was referring to Paladins. If you play a horde warlock you are facing two healing classes that can dispel your dots / cc. I think that's worse than dealing with WotF.

As for rogues sure, if they get the opener + use cooldowns the average lock is plain dead. I don't think WotF even matters. Horde lock will die just the same. If they want to kill you they will. However - they really aren't that much of a problem for your general gameplay. I get the opener on rogues far more often than they do on me in the world / battlegrounds thanks to Paranoia. Or  they just aren't stealthed when you run into them in the first place. In battlegrounds they often have no cooldowns or won't waste them chasing down a single warlock. If you choose human you will also get Perception for this. 

Basically what I'm trying to say is the WotF + Rogue problems really aren't as bad as people make out because they just doesn't come up that often in general play. There are situations when these will destroy you, but it's not constantly. Being with Paladins not against them and escape artist if you choose gnome are much more consistent factors. 

Edited December 29, 2016 by Dexev

[Lifealert 19]

Engineering Engineering Engineering

Get it as soon as possible. 

[Aethelwulf 12]

On 29-12-2016 at 0:59 PM, Porta said:

Looking to hear opinions on playing a human warlock(fuq gnomes) and if it's worth it.

I really, really would not advise that. Gnomes have a much better PvP racial than Humans, unless you want to try to scan for Rogues in battlegrounds. But just wearing Catseye Goggles on top of your Felhunter will give you solid radius on detecting Rogues passively whereas Perception has to be used at just the right moment.

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- is Succubus the only 'viable' option in solo pvp?

Actually, Felhunter is. At least Alliance-side. Will of the Forsaken can break Seduce, so the value of a Succubus for solo PvP on alliance is lower. With the 5 seconds of immunity they might even kill or CC your pet.

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- blacksmiths fear immunity trinket, worth it or nah? (I like it as a druid)

If you use a Felhunter and are Undead, it's pointless. A Felhunter can dispel a fear off of you if you time it right, and your trinket and racial can break fear also, letting you become DR-immune. Otherwise it has some use, but it's not very necessary if you're good with a Felhunter.

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- overall experience you or friends have had as an Ally lock? Is the 80% ud horde race balance gamebreaking?

Yes. It's like they all have a second PvP trinket on a 2min cooldown which they were saving just for you. That and the presence of Shaman Tremor Totems dispelling Fear and Seduce in an AoE. Along with Shamans dispelling your Soul Link, if you want to use that.

On 29-12-2016 at 3:28 PM, Dexev said:

My experience playing an alliance warlock is that I hate priests. Facing an extra class with magic dispel sounds awful. That dispel can remove much more of your arsenal than just fear. I think I'd rather stick with dealing with WotF.

The extra dispel sounds bad but Warlocks can counter Paladins and blast away instead of DoTing. Your Felhunter can eat their Blessing of Protection and Blessing of Freedom. If you Spell Lock them out of a cast, they are locked out of Holy school (that's everything for paladins) for 8 seconds. And if you Fear them they are out of commission unless their PvP trinket is off cooldown or they get dispelled. But if they have multiple dispellers you still have Howl of Terror to do an AoE fear to cause havoc. On the other hand Shamans have much better heals for mass PvP, including Chain Heal, their Tremor Totems will dispel all fear and seduce in a 30yd aoe every 4 seconds just by existing, and they can give melees ridiculous buffs with Windfury Totems.

For solo PvP vs Paladins, if you are playing an Orc you also get stun resistance to mess them up but most of all they can't chase you if you use Curse of Exhaustion (they can't dispel curses) and if you are Soul Link then you're not gonna die anytime soon and killing them mostly takes forever (not to mention Bubble Hearth) unless you manage to kill them while they are feared or spell locked out of holy school or use Seduce plus a trinket soul fire to burst them down if they let you get them low enough. Mostly it's all about killing the Paladin while he is Feared or Spell Locked unless you want the slow attrition fights which paladins excel at, but you can just run away from Paladins with Curse of Exhaustion if you're not up for PvPing them.

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The only time I think WotF really hurts is 1vX situations in the world. Assuming the X are bad, the fear could be lifesaving. I honestly don't think it's that much of a big deal in groups or even 1v1.

In a 1vX situation you are probably dead unless they are bad. WotF is crippling in 1v1 PvP also, especially if they also have their PvP trinket, letting them break two fears. Your 3rd Fear will last 5 seconds tops and then they're immune and you're out of CCs, unless you're an Engineer or have a Tidal Charm.
 

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The WotF problem is exaggerated,  just give it a go.

I disagree. Fear can turn around fights for Warlocks, and having WotF and Tremor Totems breaking your Fears on top of PvP trinket puts you in a much worse position.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Aethelwulf

[suhail1200 3]

Ally lock is worse.No exaggeration but 50% of horde are UD.Being ally u cant use succubus so u cant seduce nuke--->Making destro kinda worthless however can use felhunter but meh.Facing against wotf is a big thing even in 1 vs 1.U fear they wotf then u use death coil then u seduce or refear them and apply dots etc..Where as being horde u can save your deathcoil since u dont face these things.

Nightmare of a ally lock facing 2 undead rogues.Insta death.Hence on youtube their is only 1 ally lock pvp video and the rest a horde.Its common sense.

[Lifealert 19]

You forgot that they will just use their trinket to clear your second fear/seduction.

[Dexev 3]

Assuming general playing with felhunter here,

1v1 - Hunter, Shaman, Druid can't be undead + Warrior doesn't need WotF. That's half the classes straight away it makes no difference. Mage+Warlock both have multiple ways to break or prevent fear anyway to the extent that you are effectively ccing yourself more than them by trying it, and if you fail fakecast gg. A rogue opening that has cds to use is not letting you get them in a 2nd fear, and all rogues can break the first with trinket. I suppose WotF has some bearing here if they don't have cd's or trinket up - but then so does Escape Artist. That just leaves Priests where it makes a consistent difference. 1/8 of classes. Or even less really, cause Dwarves have Fear Ward. 

In large group fights fear is removable regardless of faction so WotF doesn't make too much of a difference. In smaller group fights it can matter but this is where Paladins come in to the argument. If you are playing as a horde warlock you are much more likely to be facing a dispelling healer in small group situation - that can remove your fears AND your dots. Or worse, 2 healers with dispel making keeping either of them in fear basically impossible. As alliance you gotta deal with WotF, and tremor totems. Something to play around. Cleanse can be spammed all day and you can't do anything about it and it removes more than just fear. 

Also did I mention yet that Escape Artist is amazing. CoEx + EA allows you to escape pretty consistently when targeted by Rogues or Warrs in bgs. What is the horde warlock doing now? Getting beat to a pulp.

At the end of the day it's all situational but the point I am trying to make is there's much more to consider than WotF. If you wanna be like drakedog and destroy poor players with a Succu then probably best to play horde yes. Otherwise playing an alliance Warlock is fine, playing a Gnome warlock is even better. WotF is not the big game breaker everyone makes out. Concern yourself more with a whole extra class that can dispel.

[Strahl 2]

paladins ice you alot more then shamans ever could. dexev point with double dispels is spot on. random BGs or solo play its alot easier as horde. for group and competetive PvP I'd go alli any time of the day.

totems are staionary while pallies run arround cleansing shit left and right. add fearward + shadow aura. aura alone is 15% chance to resist binaries.

gnome racial is imo the most powerful racial for locks as slows tend to be your worst enemy. unless you have really bad gear than stuns are your worst enemy. once you are able to survive a stunlock then gnome becomes best race for lock.

 

human is a viable choise too as lock. its just harder to use your racial correctly while EA is pretty much fool proof.

 

note: someone mentioned that UDs always have that 2nd trinket up just for you. wonder why that is? cause alliance locks simply don't fear. in their mind it will get broken anyways by Wotf so they don't even bother. guess what, thats what makes the racial so broken. you are literally never forced to use it until it really matters and therefore almost always have it ready in clutch situations making it seem way better than it actually is.

[wickedwizard 2]

Human female lock for looks & cast animations. These things matter.  

[suhail1200 3]

Yes but u are also forgetting u cant seduce nuke making destro spec harder to use.Also like u said most mages+locks+rogues+priests are undead... also shaman orc having tremor totem to remove fear and on top of this warrior with death buff or zerk rage can remove fear.

 

So yes group pvp ally is better but this is a pvp server and we all know horde ganks 2/3/4/5 vs 1 so the only group pvp is bgs/AV.

 

The problem with wotf is that it gives 5seconds immunity which forces u to death coil them since they are immune to seduce/fear.The other problem is u DONT have a way to get out of stun since trinket doesnt remove it.So undead rogue is instant death-->No succu on ally-->wotf-->Stun

[cowking 5]

you just fucked up around 80% are UD on elysium..you are so fucked as ally warlock

[Aethelwulf 12]

On 1/10/2017 at 7:32 AM, Dexev said:

Assuming general playing with felhunter here,

1v1 - Hunter, Shaman, Druid can't be undead + Warrior doesn't need WotF. That's half the classes straight away it makes no difference. Mage+Warlock both have multiple ways to break or prevent fear anyway to the extent that you are effectively ccing yourself more than them by trying it, and if you fail fakecast gg. A rogue opening that has cds to use is not letting you get them in a 2nd fear, and all rogues can break the first with trinket. I suppose WotF has some bearing here if they don't have cd's or trinket up - but then so does Escape Artist. That just leaves Priests where it makes a consistent difference. 1/8 of classes. Or even less really, cause Dwarves have Fear Ward.

With Death Coil and grenades (if you haven't DoTted them) you can set up more fears. Believe it or not, it is very possible to cast more than one fear and if you see someone breaking out of two of them it is just pain because successful fears win fights and on a 3rd fear the duration will be trash and after that they are immune thanks to DR. Warriors, Mages, Priests, and Paladins have no way to break Seduce (well, a Paladin can use Blessing of Sacrifice in mass PvP to take damage and thus break Seduce) and Mages and Priests only have 1 PvP trinket (two if they actually took Blacksmithing just for their 30sec fear immunity trinket) and can only break a single Fear, although they can try to interrupt a second one with counterspell and slience (silence is dispellable). Assuming you are hit by these, you can have a Felhunter to devour it off of you or otherwise use a Spellstone to dispel all magic debuffs (including Silence) and obtain a 900 magic damage shield, plus against Mages you can still cast fire spells like Immolate and Searing Pain. Fear Ward is mainly a hindrance, not a counter, because a resisted Fear does not trigger diminishing returns and a Warlock's Fear has no cooldown so if you cast Fear twice in a row they will still eat a full Fear. And in mass PvP if they get purged by a Shaman or Priest the Fear Ward is probably gone. In 1v1, Shaman has his own answers to Fear (Primarily dropping Tremor Totems, but Earth Shock, Grounding Totem, and Searing Totem can all be used to make successful fearing harder too) and he is Horde-only. The Alliance Paladin on the other hand can only break a single Fear with his trinket (he can go immune for 30sec with the blacksmithing trinket though) and he cannot break Seduce with that nor does he have good odds of killing a Warlock since he has no slows or sprints or ranged damage and cannot cleanse away curses like Curse of Exhaustion and if you are playing an Orc you have stun resistance to boot.
 

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In large group fights fear is removable regardless of faction so WotF doesn't make too much of a difference. In smaller group fights it can matter but this is where Paladins come in to the argument. If you are playing as a horde warlock you are much more likely to be facing a dispelling healer in small group situation - that can remove your fears AND your dots. Or worse, 2 healers with dispel making keeping either of them in fear basically impossible. As alliance you gotta deal with WotF, and tremor totems. Something to play around. Cleanse can be spammed all day and you can't do anything about it and it removes more than just fear.

You are assuming the Horde does not also have Priests or Warlocks who can dispel in PvP. Not to mention a Paladin has to spend his casts countering Fears and DoTs one by one (cleanse removes 1 magic / 1 poison / 1 disease whereas dispel removes 2 magic debuffs in one cast) while a Shaman can leave up a Tremor Totem to periodically wipe all Fears in the area (if people didn't just WotF out and go immune for another 5 sec) leaving the Shaman free to spend his own time spamming Chain Heals (which is much better than cleansing DoTs) or move on the offensive with stuff like Lightning Bolts while giving his melees Windfury Totem. PvP trinkets have 5 minute cooldowns and are frequently expended against a variety of classes if they are even being equipped. WotF just has a 2 minute cooldown, every Undead has it, and they're all saving it for Warlocks and Priests (and maybe Intimidating Shout). The Paladin can mostly Cleanse, toss weaker heals, and throw buffs like Blessing of Protection or Blessing of Freedom, both of which can be devoured by your Felhunter or purged by a Shaman or dispelled by a Priest.
 

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Also did I mention yet that Escape Artist is amazing. CoEx + EA allows you to escape pretty consistently when targeted by Rogues or Warrs in bgs. What is the horde warlock doing now? Getting beat to a pulp.

Except Rogues can outsprint an amplified Curse of Exhaustion and reapply a slowing poison which is stronger than CoEx while Warriors can just throw Piercing Shout (Both Arms/Fury and Fury spec PvP warriors have this talent) to slow you 50% and catch up to you or Intercept and Hamstring you if you manage to put some distance. The main problem with Escape Artist is that slows are very spammable. It's still better than Perception, but it's not that great. Also Orc Warlocks can resist things like Charge, Intercept, and Rogue stuns whereas Undead Warlocks have an answer to a Warrior's Intimidating Shout.
 

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At the end of the day it's all situational but the point I am trying to make is there's much more to consider than WotF. If you wanna be like drakedog and destroy poor players with a Succu then probably best to play horde yes. Otherwise playing an alliance Warlock is fine, playing a Gnome warlock is even better. WotF is not the big game breaker everyone makes out. Concern yourself more with a whole extra class that can dispel.

Rather, if you just want to PvP with a Succubus, then it is best to play Horde. Fears and Seduce both suffer immensely from being up against Shamans and Undead.

[Acrimony 0]

As an alliance lock you are forced to learn how to rely on killing things with out fear spam. In organised group PvP you will always be fearing a shaman, mages can deal with priests. So its not much of an issue. 

Simply put, you want to have 9082343895093480 anti venoms.

You can be smart with a succubus if you are alliance, abuse the fact that your first will always get wotfed and just seduce into a grenade (its fairly decent cd trade imo) 

The one saving grace of beign an alliance warlock is paladins, make a paladin friend, make a devour magic macro for him when hes sheeped and he will follow you BoPing you on cd because why the вау not. 

Personally i am very glad i have played an alliance warlock, i believe it will ad a lot to your skill set as a player, its pretty much trial by fire. 

http://realmplayers.com/CharacterViewer.aspx?realm=Ana&player=Acrimony

Edited January 16, 2017 by Acrimony

[suhail1200 3]

Their are no DR's here AethelWulf.

Main problem ally lock faces is stuns and slows.Rogue can cheap stun--kidney and 1sec left vanish and cheapstun again etc.. with no way to get out from it.

Cant use succubus since most are wotf

Felhunter for casters and void for melee

Be soul link if it is hard to kill rogues

Best thing is, use free action potion and skull of impending doom which will help u alot.If u dont have these 2 as ally then u are dead.Also magic dust when it is 1 vs 2 etc.. 

 

Horde lock ez to play and OP , just seduce spam with shadowbolts

Ally lock probably hardest class to play cuz all these problems.Priests dispelling/shaman purge/tremor totem/rogue stuns/cant use succubus/wotf etc...Your big problems are with shamans/rogues and they are the most played XD.

[delita1 0]

anyone have the best build we're talking about they can post as an ally lock? leveling one myself, read this forum post and i'm like well shit, didn't think it through - but i love GNOMES ! and i have a pocket pally for pvp which is great.

[wickedwizard 2]

On 1/26/2017 at 2:52 AM, delita1 said:

anyone have the best build we're talking about they can post as an ally lock? leveling one myself, read this forum post and i'm like well shit, didn't think it through - but i love GNOMES ! and i have a pocket pally for pvp which is great.

Something like this will work

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#IA0bqRbkiZZxx0tMbz

You can swap/trade points between imp CoA and imp CoE

[madebyrockets 0]

On 28/02/2017 at 7:21 AM, wickedwizard said:

Something like this will work

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#IA0bqRbkiZZxx0tMbz

You can swap/trade points between imp CoA and imp CoE

Isnt fel conc not that great for pvp?

[Crysthal 3]

3 hours ago, madebyrockets said:

Isnt fel conc not that great for pvp?

Well but it's mostly a filler and better than 10%more drain life when you get like 1 tick of it ;)