group with Ratstick at your own risk [horde]

[Oakenlix 79]

24 minutes ago, elvensept said:

 

This is the only right option, all those who needed every BoE item are selfish, and Ninja. 

"A value of BoE item is the same for everyone no matter if you're gonna use it or sell it." - this phrase from Oakenlix is one of the most ridiculous thoughts that I heard after returning to Vanilla. I also hope that as little as possible met people with similar beliefs.

Would you try to disprove my point?

If it's so ridiculous as you claim, there must be some kind of an argument proving that value of BoE item is different for different players. If you do that, be sure I'll have to agree with your point.

Unfortunately, so far nobody in this thread provided anything like that.

11 hours ago, Bluntski said:

The argument is pretty simple.

 

Need = equip

Greed = sell, vendor, disenchant etc

But that's not an argument, that's you telling me what you think "need" and "greed" mean. 

You can't prove why would someone who intends to use BoE item need it more that someone intending to sell it on AH. I, on the other hand, can prove my point. 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Oakenlix

[Elvensept 12]

 

This subject have good description at Wowwiki: 

"Need: Mouse over the picture of the item to see its characteristics, and if you want to take it to use, click the pair-of-dice button to randomly generate a number from 1 to 100. This is a 'need' roll and the item should be an upgrade for you. If it is an upgrade for your offspec (e.g. healing plate for a tanking paladin), it's generally okay to click Need, but only if no one else needs the item for their main spec. Warning: If you 'need' every drop, you will likely be branded a ninja and have trouble finding groups.

Greed: If you want it to sell, send to an alt, etc., click the coin button for a "greed" roll. This will only result in a roll if no one chooses need."

+additionaly

"Need before Greed: "Pass" is automatically selected for party members who cannot use the item. Not a particularly fair system, not nearly as good as it sounds at first glance. Just because you can equip an item does not mean you need it. Just because you can't equip an item does not mean that you do not have legitimate secondary claims on the item, for an alt or for disenchanting. This is the unalterable default for pickup groups created via the new Dungeon Finder interface introduced in Patch 3.3." - here you can see the position of Blizzard themselves and it does not coincide with your.

+additionaly, but can't prove

"For very valuable Bind on Equip items — which nearly any player can be expected to sell on the Auction House — Blizzard applied a loot-lock which if a player rolls "Need", it cannot be traded."

 

I strongly disagree with the view that the value of BoE is the same for all, it is not. The value of an item is determined by how it fits on the armor type, class and stats. Someone's desire to capitalize on BoE should never be above the actual need to improve equipment for the main spec at a suitable player. 

Do not be so greedy.

Edited January 20, 2017 by elvensept

[Oakenlix 79]

48 minutes ago, elvensept said:

 

This subject have good description at Wowwiki: 

"Need: Mouse over the picture of the item to see its characteristics, and if you want to take it to use, click the pair-of-dice button to randomly generate a number from 1 to 100. This is a 'need' roll and the item should be an upgrade for you. If it is an upgrade for your offspec (e.g. healing plate for a tanking paladin), it's generally okay to click Need, but only if no one else needs the item for their main spec. Warning: If you 'need' every drop, you will likely be branded a ninja and have trouble finding groups.

Greed: If you want it to sell, send to an alt, etc., click the coin button for a "greed" roll. This will only result in a roll if no one chooses need."

First of all, it's very nice of you to come up with some links/sources/arguments, I respect that.

However, what's described here is someone's opinion and it's not really the essense of our argument, what we argue about is - is the value of BoE item the same for everyone or not. Because if it's not, it's pretty obvious that whoever needs it most should roll need, and who needs it less should roll greed. I, however, insist that's not the case.

48 minutes ago, elvensept said:

here you can see the position of Blizzard themselves and it does not coincide with your.

Well, Blizzard don't approve me playing on a private server either, so I'm not really sure I should be concerned with that.

48 minutes ago, elvensept said:

I strongly disagree with the view that the value of BoE is the same for all, it is not. The value of an item is determined by how it fits on the armor type, class and stats. Someone's desire to capitalize on BoE should never be above the actual need to improve equipment for the main spec at a suitable player. 

Do not be so greedy.

Here's the interesting part. 

I'll try to explain my position once again, as detailed as possible.

First of all, if you really want to talk about me personally - no, I'm not greedy. I advocate that everyone should roll need on any BoE item, how exactly does that make me greedy? If anything, that would be a more simple, natural and even more fair system for everyone if everyone did that, but I won't go into that now.

 

Secondly, about the value of BoE items, let's take an example.

I want to mark this part out because this is where important things are said, please pay attention.

Say Rogue and Warrior loot a BoE two-handed axe and they both roll "need". Warrior can equip it, rogue obviously can't. So if Rogue wins, he can go to AH and sell it for 1 gold, so that's the value of this axe for him. But if Rogue can sell it on AH, obviously Warrior can buy it on AH too, for the same amount (if the market is somewhat healthy). So if Warrior wins, he saves 1 gold he would otherwise spend buying it. So the value of this axe is 1 gold for him too. See that? 1 gold = 1 gold, motherfuckers.

 

Edited January 20, 2017 by Oakenlix

[Elvensept 12]

 

In your example, the warrior is forced to have to go up for auction only because the appropriate item to him was taken away by someone for his own monetary gain. I can not understand why, instead of to give the desired warrior sword we allow another player to capitalize on this. It's not correct and the warrior in your example still has more rights to the sword, I do not think money matters in correct roll question. 

1 час назад, Oakenlix сказал:

However, what's described here is someone's opinion and it's not really the essense of our argument <...>

 

I confidently believe the contents wowwiki result of collective activities of the wow-community, rather than one person. You can make changes there by yourself, оf course if you do allow a team of moderators, what I strongly doubt, because your opinion is contrary to accepted community rules of good manners.

No, all the same you're just a greedy, greedy for money, it lurks in your every message in the subject line. I promise you and all who read this topic to actively fight against such a ninja in the game, and creating similar topics in the forum. If you do not understand that this is a manifestation of extreme disrespect to the other players - the community is forced to deal with the likes of ninja.

 

Let's stop this dispute, your loot regarding policy compels me to add you to the black list, along with the other thieves. I call for this all the others, who do not want to risk their proprietary loot.

Edited January 20, 2017 by elvensept

[Oakenlix 79]

On 20.01.2017 at 3:59 PM, elvensept said:

Let's stop this dispute, your loot regarding policy compels me to add you to the black list, along with the other thieves. I call for this all the others, who do not want to risk their proprietary loot.

All I say is it should be okay to do that and it would be simpler/better/more fair if everyone did that.

But if my posts upset you so much you feel you should blacklist me and call me a thief (really?), well then, I think you're full of shit. Good bye.

PS: not replying to the rest of your post because that's just a bunch of bullshit.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Oakenlix
Never say never

[Wirt 8]

Generally, when I've grouped up with more experienced players, we've all been rolling need on BoE blues. That's even though the item would be an upgrade for someone in the group. I've thought it to be an unwritten rule as to protect the group from a potential ninjaloot. It's not uncommon to have someone refusing to equip their won BoE blue item when they're planning on selling it at the AH.

I always wait for everyone else to roll before I do. This gives time for either discussion or for me to spot a ninjalooter. Ninjalooters use to wait for unexperienced players to roll greed on these items. Thus they can roll need and get their hands on it, claiming that's how the system works.

However, if you're honest, you'd definitely not roll need after everyone else rolling greed. You want everyone to have an equal chance at getting the item.

[Fyzitian 2]

On 1/17/2017 at 4:55 PM, Limitless said:

Obviously you're new.

Only new to Elysium PVP. Started playing WoW in April 2005. Always been the same loot rules for all these years on retail and on private servers.

On 1/18/2017 at 2:17 AM, Oakenlix said:

But everyone needs any BoE item. 

Assuming your need for an item to use it is more important than other person's need to sell it on AH - now thats a little douchy.

When someone uses that BoE item as an upgrade to their current equipped gear then it is needed by them most. Thats just how it is. If you don't like it start your own groups with your own crazy loot rules posted at the start.

On 1/18/2017 at 6:33 PM, Oakenlix said:

Are you aware we're talking about BoE items and selling them on AH, not BoP items and vendoring them?
If so, let me explain.

A value of BoE item is the same for everyone no matter if you're gonna use it or sell it. To use this item, you can buy it for the same amount another player can sell it. Therefore everyone needs it equally. 

Hope now it's clear. 

After reading through your many crazy "claims" at why everyone should be equal on needing a BoE item, I really question if your mentally stable. Many people have given proof that you are not correct, yet you still believe that you are correct just because you state your opinion that has no factual basis.

[Oakenlix 79]

10 hours ago, Fyzitian said:

After reading through your many crazy "claims" at why everyone should be equal on needing a BoE item, I really question if your mentally stable.

Do you, really? Or are you trying to offend/troll me? Why? Your post is quite confusing. Anyway...

10 hours ago, Fyzitian said:

Many people have given proof that you are not correct, yet you still believe that you are correct just because you state your opinion that has no factual basis.

No one has proved that someone needs a BoE item more than others, because that's simply not the case. The only "proofs" I see is some bullshit like that:

10 hours ago, Fyzitian said:

When someone uses that BoE item as an upgrade to their current equipped gear then it is needed by them most. Thats just how it is.

Good proof indeed, very persuasive. Lol. Try to be a better troll next time. 

 

[Bluntski 13]

Need = upgrade. Nothing else.

[Paltos 7]

2 hours ago, Bluntski said:

Need = upgrade. Nothing else.

BoEs upgrade my gold from less to more.

[Nehemia 1]

Rolling 'Need' on BoE just to sell is inappropriate.

Gear upgrade > 'Need'

Everything else > 'Greed'

[Oakenlix 79]

8 hours ago, Nehemia said:

Rolling 'Need' on BoE just to sell is inappropriate.

Gear upgrade > 'Need'

Everything else > 'Greed'

Aaand... why exactly that is?

[Nahaz 5]

On 23-1-2017 at 8:59 PM, Paltos said:

BoEs upgrade my gold from less to more.

/thread

[RadiantRay 1]

^ Why even have the need/greed system at all with that logic?  Just need on everything because it "increases gold"

[Mdmadam 1]

Interested why you continued grouping with the loot ninja then? Back in my day if someone did something in a group that wasn't favourable to the rest of the party, private discussion was done between the other 4 and that individual was dropped and probably forced to ghetto hearth back out. But ya general rules for BOE items is to call out if you actually need it for equip and then roll and if you win you have to equip it. Using the actual item always trumps AH, a lot of these answers seem to be from players that started WoW in Cata or Panda and think they know how a proper loot system works. Blues in vanilla are actually rare so someone being a looting just to vendor when someone else could use it is douchey. 

[Garun 9]

You should always roll need on BoE rares/epics. I always do and if no one else but the guy who actually can equip it does and I win, I will trade it to him. There are douchebags that will roll need on BoE epics for gold even when a guy in the group actually needs it for his character.

Edit: After seeing the screenshots, it looks like the loot rule was to roll need on BoE rares/epics since everyone but you rolled need on it. That lock is still a douchebag for needing on it since the hunter can actually equip it for an upgrade, and arguably the tank and healer were too, though agility at least does something useful for them when they are leveling. The loot rules still stand even if they favor douchebags.

Edited January 25, 2017 by zmandude24

[Oakenlix 79]

6 hours ago, RadiantRay said:

^ Why even have the need/greed system at all with that logic?  Just need on everything because it "increases gold"

I think you're either pretty dumb or just didn't read the thread. Don't embarass yourself like that, man.

[weemann86 0]

On 1/19/2017 at 2:54 PM, Oakenlix said:

 

And no, Im not greedy, Im actually one of the kindest motherfuckers you're gonna meet.

 

Hey, everyone, he must be a nice person becasue he knows he is!

[Oakenlix 79]

4 minutes ago, weemann86 said:

Hey, everyone, he must be a nice person becasue he knows he is!

Whats wrong with that? As if a nice person has no way to know they are nice? Come on, its not even what the thread is about.

 

[Oakenlix 79]

Just wanna bump this thread because it's almost as ridiculous as the one about Beerwizzard. Funny stuff.

[ashtocabinet 0]

2 hours ago, Oakenlix said:

Just wanna bump this thread because it's almost as ridiculous as the one about Beerwizzard. Funny stuff.

Lul this kid oakenlix is nuts 

thanks for the laugh(s)

[koree 0]

This is HILARIOUS! Obviously many people have never played vanilla. If an assassin's blade drops in SFK do you expect someone to equip it? What about Krol Blade, Warden Staff, or any other BOE epics. What if Orb of deception drops or a blazing emblem, both BoE blues worth a tremendous amount of gold! Sure someone might need it to actually use it but the value of items like this are too high considering the actual value of gold in vanilla. The reason everyone rolls need on items like this is so everyone has an equal chance at getting it which is how it should be with BoE items of actual value. If I rolled greed on a item that could sell for say 50g and one or two other people needed it I would feel cheated. That's half the cost of lvl 40 riding + mount!

 

I personally greed some BoE items if someone says they are going to actually use it. The ONLY ways to ninja in a party are to swap to ML before a fight and leave with all the loot, Need on BoP items you can not use or have VERY little value for your class and spec when it is obviously meant to go to someone else (example would be a hunter rolling on elemental shaman mail), or if a person says they are going to equip an item to get people to greed and then sells that item. What should be done when something of high value drops like that is someone should say ALL NEED and if someone accidentally greeds you give them the opportunity to /roll so everyone has a chance. Now it does suck to have something awesome drop and it be perfect for you to actually use, but everyone else wants to sell it. This is why some people like me will ask and then greed, but this kind of behavior should not be automatically expected of people and honestly if you expect to take away someone else's chance of selling an item that you will replace one day then you don't even deserve it.