Horde Mage Beerwizzard ninjas Stockade Pauldrons

[Cephei 8]

3 hours ago, Oakenlix said:

I didn't quite get what you mean, but my point is that what Cephei about AH prices not being the real value is a nonsense, it contradicts itself. If you can buy or sell an item for average 100 gold, that's a pretty damn real value to me. 

In the example he mentioned one party was simply more informed about the prices than the other, hence the seemingly "imbalanced" prices.

No, you should ready my post again. The point was that you're never gonna get someone to buy an item for MORE than he wants to buy it for, always less. This decrapency exists and is inevitable. The argument holds. Market value is ALWAYS below what people on average are willing to pay for it.

[Bluntski 13]

I just don't understand why people don't want to help their party mates even if it is a PUG. I guess being self-centered and greedy is the new norm? I would have had no issues giving the tank this item.

1) Gold is great, but I'd rather help someone gear themselves

2) Helping people is good. It fosters respect and friends. People remeber the favors you do for them

3) I don't like putting montetary gain over someones need for BIS gear.

[Nehemia 1]

@Cephei, thank you for the well-written and clear post. It a sign of a well-thought post and gives reason and statements as to why people should use "Need before Greed". At the same time, it shows that people like Oakenlix is most likely just here to troll, as he blatantly ignores most of the things that are being said. 

[Oakenlix 79]

1 hour ago, Cephei said:

The point was that you're never gonna get someone to buy an item for MORE than he wants to buy it for, always less. This decrapency exists and is inevitable. The argument holds. Market value is ALWAYS below what people on average are willing to pay for it.

This is hilarious.

You're never gonna get someone to sell an item for LESS than he wants to sell it for either, so by that logic it should mean the market value is always above what people on average are willing to recieve for it. Which means there's a "grey area" of a price which satisfies both buyer and seller. This is how deals are done. 

So how exactly does that make the "actual value" any different from market value? It's the same thing. 

I see your point, but the conclusion you draw from it is simply wrong. Market value IS the average price of the item, and it's exactly how much the item is worth. 

 

[Beerwizzard 13]

1 час назад, Cephei сказал:

No, you should ready my post again. The point was that you're never gonna get someone to buy an item for MORE than he wants to buy it for, always less. This decrapency exists and is inevitable. The argument holds. Market value is ALWAYS below what people on average are willing to pay for it.

Different ppl are willing to pay different amount of gold. For example Mokes told me many times thet shoulders worth 200g but if he is ready to pay 200g ah buyout price it doesen't change the fact that for someone else it could be sold for another amount of golds. Market value is the price at which an item would trade in a competitive auction setting.

[Justme 9]

Can someone just please tell me how much gold an item should be worth for me to be allowed to Need on it for the gold?
Cause there are BOPS that vendor for more then some BOE auction for.

Or can I just Need on anything purple colored?

[Justme 9]

8 minutes ago, Beerwizzard said:

Different ppl are willing to pay different amount of gold. For example Mokes told me many times thet shoulders worth 200g but if he is ready to pay 200g ah buyout price it doesen't change the fact that for someone else it could be sold for another amount of golds. Market value is the price at which an item would trade in a competitive auction setting.

So I should only roll on Need if I intend to do comptetitive auctioning with it?

[Beerwizzard 13]

Только что, Justme сказал:

So I should only roll on Need if I intend to do comptetitive auctioning with it?

Not realy. You can also need items for non competitive  auctioning (if you get extremely rare drop like alcor's sunrazor and you are the only seller).

6 минут назад, Justme сказал:

Can someone just please tell me how much gold an item should be worth for me to be allowed to Need on it for the gold?
Cause there are BOPS that vendor for more then some BOE auction for.

Or can I just Need on anything purple colored?

The best way to solve this problem is to discuss the loot rules before starting a dungeon run.

[Justme 9]

1 minute ago, Beerwizzard said:

 

The best way to solve this problem is to discuss the loot rules before starting a dungeon run.

Assuming this is not done for whatever reason. What are the default rules?

->A drop of item could happen in parties outside of dungeons aswell and I don't want to discuss lootruns when questing. 

[Beerwizzard 13]

Только что, Justme сказал:

Assuming this is not done for whatever reason. What are the default rules?

->A drop of item could happen in parties outside of dungeons aswell and I don't want to discuss lootruns when questing. 

It's up to you. If you need this item or you think that you can have a good cash on it then why not? I'm sure that all group members should have the same rights for valuable loot. But as you see we still dont have the aggreement on this question so you are risking to see some butthurts.

Also if you're up for some charity / you are running with good guys and you are willing to help them / you are running with guildmates and the whole guild will benefit from it then you can pass this item.

[Oakenlix 79]

44 minutes ago, Justme said:

Can someone just please tell me how much gold an item should be worth for me to be allowed to Need on it for the gold?
Cause there are BOPS that vendor for more then some BOE auction for.

Or can I just Need on anything purple colored?

This doesn't have anything to do with how much gold an item is worth. Just know that any BoE item is as valuable to you as it is to any other player. This is not the case with BoP however. The conclusion about how to act is up to you.

42 minutes ago, Justme said:

So I should only roll on Need if I intend to do comptetitive auctioning with it?

No, you should only roll Need on BoE if you need it, in one way or another. 

31 minutes ago, Justme said:

Assuming this is not done for whatever reason. What are the default rules?

->A drop of item could happen in parties outside of dungeons aswell and I don't want to discuss lootruns when questing. 

There is no common default. As you can see, different people have completely different opinions on that matter, for whatever reason. 

[Oakenlix 79]

2 hours ago, Bluntski said:

I just don't understand why people don't want to help their party mates even if it is a PUG. I guess being self-centered and greedy is the new norm? I would have had no issues giving the tank this item.

1) Gold is great, but I'd rather help someone gear themselves

2) Helping people is good. It fosters respect and friends. People remeber the favors you do for them

3) I don't like putting montetary gain over someones need for BIS gear.

There's nothing wrong with being nice to people, helping people and passing a good item to them, it makes them happy and so on. 

What is wrong, however, is blaming people who don't do that (because they don't have to) and calling them ninjas. This is what this thread is about.

ps: sorry for double post.

Edited February 2, 2017 by Oakenlix

[Bluntski 13]

OK so hes just greedy and not necesarily a ninja.

[flowqz 34]

12 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

There's nothing wrong with being nice to people, helping people and passing a good item to them, it makes them happy and so on. 

What is wrong, however, is blaming people who don't do that (because they don't have to) and calling them ninjas. This is what this thread is about.

ps: sorry for double post.

u still dont understand, that the majority makes the rules, just like irl society. if u dont adept u might get punished one way or the other.

if u can handle that its totally fine.

[Oakenlix 79]

2 minutes ago, flowqz said:

u still dont understand, that the majority makes the rules, just like irl society. if u dont adept u might get punished one way or the other.

if u can handle that its totally fine.

What makes you think I don't understand that?

[flowqz 34]

3 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

What makes you think I don't understand that?

arguing about your logic and the logic of other people again and again, while this stuff isnt about logic.

 

edit: he did something wrong according to the majority of players on this server, no need to defend the standpoint unless u want some kind of "greed = need" revolution. so this argument is totally pointless.

Edited February 2, 2017 by flowqz

[Oakenlix 79]

1 minute ago, flowqz said:

arguing about your logic and the logic of other people again and again, while this stuff isnt about logic.

It is. It's about whether or not rolling "Need" on BoE should be ok, which I argue it should, based on a simple logic. I do realize a lot of people would disagree, and I act accordingly in game, but it doesn't change my opinion. 

Furthermore, not only it should be acceptable to do that, I would argue that if everyone always rolled "Need" on any BoE, it would even be a better and more fair system. But I don't even bother explaining this part for now, seeing how people struggle with even simple things here.

[Wazte 2]

This is a question that divides people, always make sure the group agrees on the loot rules before starting the run. If the group has agreed on a Need before Greed rule on BoE's beforehand and the person who is after the gold goes ahead and Needs on it anyway, then yes, they are assholes and it is not justifiable in any way.

[Beerwizzard 13]

1 час назад, Wazte сказал:

This is a question that divides people, always make sure the group agrees on the loot rules before starting the run. If the group has agreed on a Need before Greed rule on BoE's beforehand and the person who is after the gold goes ahead and Needs on it anyway, then yes, they are assholes and it is not justifiable in any way.

If you read the previous pages you should know that everyone equaly need boe epics. If you can equip it then you just wana save ur money and that is the same greed.

If you wana discuss the loot rules with your group then better  separately discuss super rare BoEs

[Justme 9]

if a BOP item drops and not a gear upgrade we should all NEED on it because the gold value is the same for everyone.

I personally make sure I am among the first to NEED so nobody can ninjaneed it after I greed

 

I'm gonna pug MC and need on all that sweet T1 BOE for gold :D

Edited February 3, 2017 by Justme

[Beerwizzard 13]

Только что, Justme сказал:

if a BOP item drops and not a gear upgrade we should all NEED on it because the gold value is the same for everyone.

I personally make sure I am among the first to NEED so nobody can ninjaneed it after I greed

If bop drops (what means that ppl are coming for this item) then it should be rolled by someone who can use it. The other loot rules grp should decide by itself (like ms>os etc.). I think everything is clear about bop

The vendor price is not a real item's value. Please read the whole thread, dont make me call you a retard :)

If you want to ask something pls make sure that it was not discussed yet.

[Justme 9]

15 minutes ago, Beerwizzard said:

If bop drops (what means that ppl are coming for this item) then it should be rolled by someone who can use it. The other loot rules grp should decide by itself (like ms>os etc.). I think everything is clear about bop

The vendor price is not a real item's value. Please read the whole thread, dont make me call you a retard :)

If you want to ask something pls make sure that it was not discussed yet.

But I didn't ask you anything. I just stated my rules. You don't have to agree to them.

[Beerwizzard 13]

41 минуту назад, Justme сказал:

But I didn't ask you anything. I just stated my rules. You don't have to agree to them.

State ur rules with your group before starting a dungeon run.

Edited February 3, 2017 by Beerwizzard

[Justme 9]

42 minutes ago, Beerwizzard said:

State ur rules with your group before starting a dungeon run.

You mean how you stated its ok to roll on BOE before startingOP's run?

Edited February 3, 2017 by Justme

[Beerwizzard 13]

Только что, Justme сказал:

You mean how you stated its ok to roll on BOE before startingOP's run?

 

39 минут назад, Beerwizzard сказал:

State ur rules with your group before starting a dungeon run.

You can roll whatever you want if ur grp agreed to it :)