Horde Mage Beerwizzard ninjas Stockade Pauldrons

[debrye 0]

5 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

I'd rather be guildless than be in a guild that kicks its member out over something stupid like that.

You can try looking for guilds that accept ninjas then, most likely not raiding guilds.

[Beerwizzard 13]

10 минут назад, debrye сказал:

You can try looking for guilds that accept ninjas then, most likely not raiding guilds.

The only thing i've been trying to explane is that it was not ninjaing and you (and ur friends) still cand understand it. You are surprisingly dumb and im sure that i dont wana raid with people like you.

[debrye 0]

15 minutes ago, Beerwizzard said:

The only thing i've been trying to explane is that it was not ninjaing and you (and ur friends) still cand understand it. You are surprisingly dumb and im sure that i dont wana raid with people like you.

You can ''explain'' you are not a ninja all you want, its not gonna change the fact of how you are branded right now and how you are seen by the rest of the community.Insert other media

[Beerwizzard 13]

Только что, debrye сказал:

You can ''explain'' you are not a ninja all you want, its not gonna change the fact of how you are branded right now and how you are seen by the rest of the community.Insert other media

 

54 минуты назад, Beerwizzard сказал:

Anyway im very pleased that you and ur friends are following my ingame activities, you are the first members of my fanclub. Unfortunately you did not ruined my life (like crying Mokes promised me) and im not realy sure that you will. But anyway please keep trying because sometimes its realy funny

Please keep me in touch about your further research, maybe you will uncover any new interesting facts about how you ruined my life  xD

 

Edited January 29, 2017 by Beerwizzard

[Hegrometh 3]

Beerwizzard did nothing wrong. You should always roll "Need" on BoE rares and epics. It's the only way to avoid ninja looting (when all roll greed and the last person to roll rolls "Need", thereby forcefully gaining the item) and it's perfectly legal and legitimate. If a BoE item doesn't upgrade your character directly (equipping the item) it can upgrade him indirectly by selling the BoE item (especially a very expensive one such as Stockade Pauldrons) and then buying gear which improves your character. Also, if Beerwizzard is a ninja, then the other players who rolled "Need" are also ninjas. Everyone had an equal chance of winning that. Mokes is just mad because he lost and that's it. That's the only reason he ever made this thread. 

Also, who can guarantee that Mokes would've even equipped Stockade Pauldrons if he had won them? Maybe he'd just say "w00t, screw you guys I'm out" and leave. You can't give someone an item of this caliber for free, relying on his/her good will. It's totally stupid and you risk being cheated.

Also, gz Beerwizzard.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Hegrometh

[debrye 0]

15 minutes ago, Hegrometh said:

Also, who can guarantee that Mokes would've even equipped Stockade Pauldrons if he had won them? Maybe he'd just say "w00t, screw you guys I'm out" and leave. You can't give someone an item of this caliber for free, relying on his/her good will. It's totally stupid and you risk being cheated.

 

If that was the case, any person that does that can be branded a ninja.

[salamachala 1]

I dont know any1 in here, just giving you my thougts. If I follow the logic that your action isn't ninjaing and just gaining gold, you can put this logic onto every BOP. The amount you will gain is lower, but a good 2hander vendors for a lot. Passing on any BOP is the same than passing on a BOE loot, you just let the other guy have an item (=money). So your logic is not correct Beerwizzard. Apparently you try to say that an Item, which is above x amount of Gold, is ffa.

sry for badzzz English

[Oakenlix 79]

23 minutes ago, salamachala said:

I dont know any1 in here, just giving you my thougts. If I follow the logic that your action isn't ninjaing and just gaining gold, you can put this logic onto every BOP. The amount you will gain is lower, but a good 2hander vendors for a lot. Passing on any BOP is the same than passing on a BOE loot, you just let the other guy have an item (=money). So your logic is not correct Beerwizzard. Apparently you try to say that an Item, which is above x amount of Gold, is ffa.

sry for badzzz English

No, re-read the thread, what we're talking about does NOT apply to BoP items. It's not the same.

[salamachala 1]

On 27.1.2017 at 5:43 PM, Beerwizzard said:

 

Every item (ingame or irl)  could be considered as a currency and all of them have a different liquidity. Ofc the most universal one is gold and usually we are using it in wow. If the epic item is BoE it becomes pretty liquid and could be turned into the other boe item (item - gold - item). In this case we had a rare drop of a value of X. What means that your shoulders a someone else's devilsaur set / robe of winter night / whatever. Im pretty sure that all group members should have a right to roll on this value.

 

Just read this, he is not talking about BOE or BOP, he just talks about the amount from a BOE is higher. And Item - Gold - Item works for everything, BOP as well. If I follow this logic, every1 needs gold and has a right to roll on everything.

I know that this item was BOE and not BOP, but its bis (pre-raid) for a warrior so he has a need (equip) for that Item, the other guy had a need (money) for that item. So where is the difference on rolling on an Ashkandi as mage to vendor it?

[Oakenlix 79]

2 minutes ago, salamachala said:

Just read this, he is not talking about BOE or BOP, he just talks about the amount from a BOE is higher. And Item - Gold - Item works for everything, BOP as well. If I follow this logic, every1 needs gold and has a right to roll on everything.

I know that this item was BOE and not BOP, but its bis (pre-raid) for a warrior so he has a need (equip) for that Item, the other guy had a need (money) for that item. So where is the difference on rolling on an Ashkandi as mage to vendor it?

The difference is that the value of BoE item is equal for everyone since it's tradable between players, and so everyone should roll "Need".

The value of a BoP item is much bigger for someone who can wear it than someone who can't, because the only alternative would be vendoring it. And I hope you agree that vendor prices are lower than the actual value of items. This is why you roll "Greed" on a BoP items if you can't wear it, so if nobody needs it you can win the roll and vendor/disenchant it.

Yes, you could roll "Need" for a BoP to vendor it. Now THAT would be a ninja move, because the amount of gold you get out of it is miserable compared to its value to someone who could wear it. That's the difference.

 

[Cephei 8]

Can you please stop arguing about this, he's already been blacklisted from 15 guilds so far, actions speak louder than words. He obviously doesn't care or want to learn that his opinion is simply a tiny minority and not acceptable, no matter how much he thinks it is.

I hope the 200g was worth trashing your char for.

[Oakenlix 79]

13 minutes ago, Cephei said:

Can you please stop arguing about this, he's already been blacklisted from 15 guilds so far, actions speak louder than words. He obviously doesn't care or want to learn that his opinion is simply a tiny minority and not acceptable, no matter how much he thinks it is.

I hope the 200g was worth trashing your char for.

How is that even relevant to the topic we're arguing about? Get the fuck out of here with your "He's blacklisted!" bullshit. If actions speak louder than words, shut up and try to get him blacklisted in another 15 guilds.

[Cephei 8]

Just now, Oakenlix said:

get him blacklisted in another 15 guilds.

I will

It's relevant to the topic because we don't care what your opinion on the topic is, or if you think what you're doing isn't ninja looting.

There will be consequences when you do it. That's all.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Cephei

[RadiantRay 1]

3 hours ago, Oakenlix said:

No, re-read the thread, what we're talking about does NOT apply to BoP items. It's not the same.

What about BoE greens? BoE terrible blues that won't sell in AH?  Only the good BoE gear?

[фткyн 1469]

Guys anyone know good add-on for player notes? Vanakos good for tracking gankers and bully players from opposing faction, but  not good for tracking bad players or ninjas from your faction, ct player notes also doesn't suitable bcz need to add players to friend list. 

[salamachala 1]

10 hours ago, Oakenlix said:

The difference is that the value of BoE item is equal for everyone since it's tradable between players, and so everyone should roll "Need".

The value of a BoP item is much bigger for someone who can wear it than someone who can't, because the only alternative would be vendoring it. And I hope you agree that vendor prices are lower than the actual value of items. This is why you roll "Greed" on a BoP items if you can't wear it, so if nobody needs it you can win the roll and vendor/disenchant it.

Yes, you could roll "Need" for a BoP to vendor it. Now THAT would be a ninja move, because the amount of gold you get out of it is miserable compared to its value to someone who could wear it. That's the difference.

 

Actually I care on his oppinion cause I have never seen somebody who even tries to justify such a behaviour with arguments. I want to know why they think its ok. In retail Vanilla I have never seen anything like this, rolling on this and even try to argue your way out .

 

The price of a BOP lower, I agree, but what is the amount where its ok? 20g? 50g? 200g? There is literally no difference, Item=Gold 

[Cephei 8]

4 hours ago, фткyн said:

Guys anyone know good add-on for player notes? Vanakos good for tracking gankers and bully players from opposing faction, but  not good for tracking bad players or ninjas from your faction, ct player notes also doesn't suitable bcz need to add players to friend list. 

http://addons.us.to/addon/notesuneed

[Newts 6]

There is literally 4 people who have read this that agree and argue with Beer, yet everyone else disagrees...
Maybe the people agreeing with Beer should take some time, think about the actions and maybe just start to think like 95+% of the population, that they are wrong!

Unfortunately toxic people generally believe what they are saying is right and will continue to justify it.

This topic and thread will not alter their thoughts or mindset, however more and more people will see their actions are dishonest and crappy. In vanilla, it would have had a hard effect on them and they would have been blacklisted, they will probably get away with it on these servers due to the population.

Someone stated it earlier which is what the majority of people playing servers believe are the generally "rules" and "best practice" -

NEED - It is a direct item upgrade for the character and will be worn

GREED - It is not going to be worn and is a monetary (gold) gain

I understand your argument, that you believe everyone has the right to the gold gained from the BoE items, however that isn't what the majority of players believe is the way to play the game, this is why it is branded as ninja'ing.

You have differing opinions, but yours happens to be the minority.

[Oakenlix 79]

8 hours ago, RadiantRay said:

What about BoE greens? BoE terrible blues that won't sell in AH?  Only the good BoE gear?

Doesn't matter, any BoE items are tradable. If it's a bad item - its price on AH would be lower, but so would its value for the wearer.

 

1 hour ago, salamachala said:

The price of a BOP lower, I agree, but what is the amount where its ok? 20g? 50g? 200g? There is literally no difference, Item=Gold 

You're still missing the point.

The whole basis for me saying everyone should roll "Need" on any BoE is that everyone needs it equally. Therefore everyone should have equal chance of getting it via a roll.

With BoP items, the one who can wear it as a gear upgrade needs it much more than whoever else who can only disenchant/vendor it. So it's not equal anymore. No matter what the vendor price is (20, 50, 200), I'm sure you agree any BoP blue/epic item is worth more than that.

This is why whoever can use a BoP as a gear upgrade has more rights to it than other players, so others should roll "Greed" as opposed to "Need".

 

22 minutes ago, Newts said:

You have differing opinions, but yours happens to be the minority.

This doesn't bother me as long as I'm right. No one has yet proven any of my argument to be wrong, unfortunately. All I get is just people saying "this is how it should be" or "this is how it was" with nothing to back it up, like this:

22 minutes ago, Newts said:

Someone stated it earlier which is what the majority of people playing servers believe are the generally "rules" and "best practice" -

NEED - It is a direct item upgrade for the character and will be worn

GREED - It is not going to be worn and is a monetary (gold) gain

Edited January 30, 2017 by Oakenlix

[Newts 6]

On a community level it is given that it is correct, I can't understand why you don't get this. We can't offer you proof because no one can validate this (because it is just a given) however you believe it doesn't exist.
It's the way of life, you could visit hundreds of places and do thousands of things, that an age old tradition exists but because you believe it should be otherwise you don't see it as a valid argument... Admittedly this is a game and not life.

I'm sorry that this isn't engraved into stone that this is the correct way to play wow, however it is not engraved in stone for your way either. So we have to base it on public opinion and it is of the opinion you are in the wrong by the majority.

Can you provide me with any information that leads to your argument being RIGHT. Or is it just because you are of the opinion that your monetary gain is the same as someones gear gain.

This game is essentially about wearing gear and not actually about stacking up tonnes of gold. A gear gain should always be regarded above a gold gain. You need to forget about the fact that the ah sale will then turn to gold which COULD buy an item for yourself, you are looking too far ahead - the item needs to be looked at in the present. If you think like this, we could look at everything for the future and everything should be available to anyone and there is no need requirement for anyone at all.

Everyone should just need everything BoP or BoE by your stance, because even if I can vendor something for gold, it is still a gold need, just because it is lower than an AH price or the need of the wearer. I have already seen your defence on this topic though and you say that because the vendor rates are much lower so it isn't fair, all need should be regarded as equal, otherwise we will next be looking at calling people out because they have needed something which they don't need as much as another party member.

[Oakenlix 79]

You didn't read the thread, did you? Oh boy...

2 minutes ago, Newts said:

I'm sorry that this isn't engraved into stone that this is the correct way to play wow, however it is not engraved in stone for your way either. So we have to base it on public opinion and it is of the opinion you are in the wrong by the majority.

No, my way of seeing it comes from simple logic, and you only have to appeal to public opinion if you lack the logical thinking, which is really unfortunate.

2 minutes ago, Newts said:

Can you provide me with any information that leads to your argument being RIGHT. Or is it just because you are of the opinion that your monetary gain is the same as someones gear gain.

I have. Read the thread. A drop of a BoE item is the same as a drop of X amount of gold, which everyone obviously needs equally, so roll "Need". When talking about BoE, gear gain = gold gain and vice versa, and you're being a hypocrite right now by pretending one is more important than the other.

2 minutes ago, Newts said:

You need to forget about the fact that the ah sale will then turn to gold which COULD buy an item for yourself, you are looking too far ahead - the item needs to be looked at in the present. If you think like this, we could look at everything for the future and everything should be available to anyone and there is no need requirement for anyone at all.

I don't need to forget shit, we have a good healthy market with nice player population, all tradable items have their monetary value, and we have to take it into consideration. If that's "too far ahead" for you, I'm sorry you can't see one step ahead.

2 minutes ago, Newts said:

all need should be regarded as equal, otherwise we will next be looking at calling people out because they have needed something which they don't need as much as another party member.

Good job contradicting yourself. If you say "all need should be regarded as equal", then why do you call my need of BoE to sell it on AH "ninja looting" as opposed to other player's need to wear it? You fucking idiot.

 

Please learn how to read. After you're done, re-read this thread and see how stupid you looked.

 

[salamachala 1]

^This (2posts above) sums it up perfectly. I mean there will never be a 100% agreement on everyone to this topic, but be aware that some part of the serverpop will avoid your name as much as they can if u roll on items like that. It's not surprising that someone is raging about your action cause it is seen as shady for a big majority of the population.

Edit: I am not amazed that the guys who are using the toxic play style are always the ones who are cursing and flaming others.

Just accept it, if you do it, you will most likely get exposed. You write "naaah im ok, dont be butthurt, idc, I have my guys etc." but your name will always been dodged by a lot of people.

Pretty sure u never played real vanilla, just came in in woltk or cata and try to justify everything by your own logic

Edited January 30, 2017 by salamachala

[TheDruidCode 28]

99% of the forum think this thread has been going on for way too long.

[Beerwizzard 13]

Только что, Newts сказал:

Can you provide me with any information that leads to your argument being RIGHT. Or is it just because you are of the opinion that your monetary gain is the same as someones gear gain.

 

It is the same as long as you can buy this item on the AH instead of taking the same amount of value from the group.

2 минуты назад, Newts сказал:

 

This game is essentially about wearing gear and not actually about stacking up tonnes of gold.

Yes it is. The same thing is irl. Money is a commodity that is usually exchanged for something (like buying something that you need: gear / mount / flasks etc.). No one is collecting gold just to own it. Anyway you will get the same upgrade for you char in a short time after getting an item.

7 минут назад, Newts сказал:

Everyone should just need everything BoP or BoE by your stance, because even if I can vendor something for gold, it is still a gold need, just because it is lower than an AH price or the need of the wearer. I have already seen your defence on this topic though and you say that because the vendor rates are much lower so it isn't fair, all need should be regarded as equal, otherwise we will next be looking at calling people out because they have needed something which they don't need as much as another party member.

In case with BoE epics everyone needs and item for greed, thats clear and logical. And to prevent ninjaing you should better  press need to make a fair roll.

[gustanoid 2]

added to ignore list. There is some small border between rules and being decent person

Edited January 30, 2017 by gustanoid