Weaponskill & hit according to the source code

[Aderlass 1]

From the source code:

else if (skillDiff < -10) missChance -= (skillDiff + 10) * 0.4f - 2.0f; // 7% base chance to miss for big skill diff (%6 in 3.x)

else missChance -= skillDiff * 0.1f;

 

So with 300 weaponskill against a 315 defense skill, I would have +4% miss (on top of the 24% normal miss chance with DW).

And with 305 weaponskill only +1% miss. Am I reading this right?

 

This would mean that weapon skill (being >=305) is really really important on this server, since it gives extra hit (>3) in addition to improving glancing blow dmg.

Or am I misinterpreting the data?

Edited March 17, 2017 by Aderlass

[Nocturn 4]

I'll let one of the smarter math guys answer this, but that's how i've always interpreted it myself, having 305 is almost like having 3% hit in some ways, (Having said that you can easily reach max hit with gear and still focus enough on all other core stats so don't get caught up on Humans/Orcs)

[Adeline 2]

7 minutes ago, Nocturn said:

I'll let one of the smarter math guys answer this, but that's how i've always interpreted it myself, having 305 is almost like having 3% hit in some ways, (Having said that you can easily reach max hit with gear and still focus enough on all other core stats so don't get caught up on Humans/Orcs)

Nobody goes for full hit cap.

[Nocturn 4]

5 minutes ago, Adeline said:

Nobody goes for full hit cap.

Not really the point of what i was saying...but thanks for the contribution?

[Aderlass 1]

Well you talked about reaching "max hit with gear" easily, which probably refers to the "yellow hit cap" whilst the source code posted above is used for whitehits only afaik.

[Storfan 24]

From my understanding of "+hit" gained from weapon skill is that it works kind-of the opposite of what "normal" +hit does? 

Normal +hit: Gives increased chance to hit, both specials and white hits.

Weapon skill +hit: Decreases the chance of a white miss, but doesnt affect yellows at all?

I could be completely wrong. I havnt done any serious fury theorycrafting for quite some time.

[Nocturn 4]

yellow cap is 5% i believe while white cap is like 8.5%ish (talking 1h here). Hit is still the same though, their caps are just different (and easily reached btw, with many people reaching max hit, so not sure what the first false comment was about either). Both Weapon Skill and Normal hit is not about increased chance to hit, but only decrease the chance a white or yellow miss (But im not sure exactly how Weapon Skill affects hit or the hit% completely other than interpreting it like OP) So my original point(s) still stand 

1. I agree with OP because that's how i've interpreted it (not saying its right and someone can confirm or deny)

2. 305 weap skill is automatically reached with Human/Orc and i was only saying you can reach the required hit you need and focus on other stats without getting caught up on those 2 races (Since it's their weapon skill that influences people usually picking those races and the topic of so many forum posts).

Cool topic though, i'll wait for the smarter guys.

[Aderlass 1]

8 minutes ago, Nocturn said:

yellow cap is 5% i believe while white cap is like 8.5%ish (talking 1h here). Hit is still the same though, their caps are just different (and easily reached btw, with many people reaching max hit, so not sure what the first false comment was about either).

Well, the situation is different for Dual Wield with yellow hit cap being 8,6% and white hit cap being 24% (and apparently even 28% with 300 weaponskill against a 315 defense enemy). It's impossible to reach the white hit cap as a dual wielding fury.

[Zarant 2]

They use the TBC formula, which basically translates into a 9% hit cap. If you are below 305 weapon skill each point gives 0.4% hit each and then at 305 weapon skill the hit formula changes, resulting in a 6% miss chance and each subsequent skill point after the 305 threshold reduces the chance to miss by 0.1% each.

Also, the dual wield miss penalty is exactly 19%.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Zarant

[Adeline 2]

31 minutes ago, Nocturn said:

yellow cap is 5% i believe while white cap is like 8.5%ish (talking 1h here). Hit is still the same though, their caps are just different (and easily reached btw, with many people reaching max hit, so not sure what the first false comment was about either). Both Weapon Skill and Normal hit is not about increased chance to hit, but only decrease the chance a white or yellow miss (But im not sure exactly how Weapon Skill affects hit or the hit% completely other than interpreting it like OP) So my original point(s) still stand 

1. I agree with OP because that's how i've interpreted it (not saying its right and someone can confirm or deny)

2. 305 weap skill is automatically reached with Human/Orc and i was only saying you can reach the required hit you need and focus on other stats without getting caught up on those 2 races (Since it's their weapon skill that influences people usually picking those races and the topic of so many forum posts).

Cool topic though, i'll wait for the smarter guys.

It's usually fury warriors that care about this, and for them the yellow hit cap is 8,6 % and the white hit cap is 24 %. No decent warriors reach the white hit cap. So unless you're speaking solely about tanks I don't see your point here.

People don't pick human or orc for the small hit increase since edgemaster's is part of the bis regardless of your set which puts you at 307. It's because of the reduced effect of glancing blows.

Edited March 17, 2017 by Adeline

[Guybrush 11]

32 minutes ago, Adeline said:

It's usually fury warriors that care about this, and for them the yellow hit cap is 8,6 % and the white hit cap is 24 %. No decent warriors reach the white hit cap. So unless you're speaking solely about tanks I don't see your point here.

The formula is right there in OPs post why are you making numbers up.

Yellow cap is 9%, white cap is 28%.

[Adeline 2]

4 minutes ago, Guybrush said:

The formula is right there in OPs post why are you making numbers up.

Yellow cap is 9%, white cap is 28%.

Not with the weapon skill added in (Which by the way only applies to level 63 mobs, aka bosses).

edit: Or rather, It's 24 % against a level 60 opponent (300 skill vs 300 def) but 28 % vs a 63 (boss level, 300 skill vs 315 def).

Edited March 17, 2017 by Adeline

[Guybrush 11]

57 minutes ago, Adeline said:

Not with the weapon skill added in (Which by the way only applies to level 63 mobs, aka bosses).

You make no sense.

Skill and defense calculations apply to everyone, players, bosses and regular mobs. There is a different formula for pvp and pve, OP pasted the pve one.

300 vs 315 the cap is 9% / 28%

300 vs 300 the cap is 5% / 24%

305 vs 315 the cap is 6% / 25%

[Adeline 2]

4 minutes ago, Guybrush said:

You make no sense.

Skill and defense calculations apply to everyone, players, bosses and regular mobs. There is a different formula for pvp and pve, OP pasted the pve one.

300 vs 315 the cap is 9% / 28%

300 vs 300 the cap is 5% / 24%

305 vs 315 the cap is 6% / 25%

I haven't gone by the the formula posted in OP, but if you've calculated that out of it then I suppose Elysium runs their own version of the hit table because according to all previous sources the yellow hit cap is as stated by several earlier posters including OP 8,6 %.

[sarro 0]

i think he posted pvp/pve

Edited March 17, 2017 by sarro

[Guybrush 11]

5 minutes ago, Adeline said:

I haven't gone by the the formula posted in OP, but if you've calculated that out of it then I suppose Elysium runs their own version of the hit table because according to all previous sources the yellow hit cap is as stated by several earlier posters including OP 8,6 %.

Just because other people said so doesn't mean its right.

There were 3 competing formulas during vanilla that never were properly tested: 8, 8.6 and 9.

Extensive testing during TBC determined that the 9% formula was right, so it became the accepted formula for tbc and vanilla.

The majority of vanilla servers are using the TBC formula so its not Elysium's version of the table, its what everyone uses (Kronos had to be a special snowflake and uses the 8% one).

[Adeline 2]

2 minutes ago, Guybrush said:

Just because other people said so doesn't mean its right.

There were 3 competing formulas during vanilla that never were properly tested: 8, 8.6 and 9.

Extensive testing during TBC determined that the 9% formula was right, so it became the accepted formula for tbc and vanilla.

The majority of vanilla servers are using the TBC formula so its not Elysium's version of the table, its what everyone uses (Kronos had to be a special snowflake and uses the 8% one).

Then I stand corrected, thanks for the information.

Is there anywhere I can read about the testing that was done?

[Guybrush 11]

32 minutes ago, Adeline said:

Then I stand corrected, thanks for the information.

Is there anywhere I can read about the testing that was done?

https://web.archive.org/web/20071221081132/http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t11885-rogue_warrior_weapon_skill_adjustment_discussion/p16/

[Plask 4]

17 hours ago, Adeline said:

I haven't gone by the the formula posted in OP, but if you've calculated that out of it then I suppose Elysium runs their own version of the hit table because according to all previous sources the yellow hit cap is as stated by several earlier posters including OP 8,6 %.

This. If I run less than 8% hit I miss special attacks as human.

The cap for specials is def not 9. I think it's 8. Just My observation as human warrior tank.

Im aware some sources state that diff weapon formulas are used depending on wep skill vs def skill but this was never the case on nost.

Edited March 18, 2017 by Plask

[Zarant 2]

9 hours ago, Plask said:

This. If I run less than 8% hit I miss special attacks as human.

The cap for specials is def not 9. I think it's 8. Just My observation as human warrior tank.

Im aware some sources state that diff weapon formulas are used depending on wep skill vs def skill but this was never the case on nost.

Well since the project went open source, anyone can look up the combat formulas, for this particular case, the hit cap is definitely 9%, if what you're saying is true you either found a bug or you haven't thoroughly tested your hypothesis. I'm sure they use the TBC miss formula for their calculation, if you don't believe me you can have a look at it yourself: https://github.com/elysium-project/server/blob/development/src/game/Objects/Unit.cpp

Edited March 18, 2017 by Zarant

[Plask 4]

I tested it with recap on bosses and I dont miss specials with 8% hit. I do when I run less nost was the same. As I Said from observation, if you got a different result feel free to post.

Or the last 0.6% doesnt matter enough I Guess.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Plask

[Exeqtt 0]

Does anyone else feel like there is a difference in the hit cap since ~last week? Before I never had problems but since around last week I feel like im missing a whole lot more attacks. I am playing with 8% hit and edgemasters so I have 307 weaponskill. Last raid I also had 2,38% miss on Bloodthirst according to legacy logs. I never had missed special attacks before... Anyone having the same impression?

[Alrik 6]

Didnt had a miss with 8% yesterday.

Are you sure that you're rocking 8%? Maybe delete your WTB Folder and see if you have a funky Item that got updated and doesnt provide +hit anymore? (For example Naglerring on Anathema?)

Edited March 23, 2017 by Alrik

[Storfan 24]

2 hours ago, Alrik said:

Didnt had a miss with 8% yesterday.

Are you sure that you're rocking 8%? Maybe delete your WTB Folder and see if you have a funky Item that got updated and doesnt provide +hit anymore? (For example Naglerring on Anathema?)

Naglering still provides +hit on anathema to my knowledge.

Speaking of +hit, has anyone confirmed if hitscope works for melee on Elysium? I know for a fact that it didnt on Nostalrius before but on Elysium core I dont know for sure.

[Exeqtt 0]

3 hours ago, Alrik said:

Didnt had a miss with 8% yesterday.

Are you sure that you're rocking 8%? Maybe delete your WTB Folder and see if you have a funky Item that got updated and doesnt provide +hit anymore? (For example Naglerring on Anathema?)

Hm yeah I definetly have 8%. Never was an issue for me before as well. But I thought because ppl said yellow hitcap is 9% according to source code that it is maybe connected to this.