Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Smashlol

Elemental Shaman PVE

Recommended Posts

Was wondering if anyone has spent time researching different approaches to Elemental Shaman PVE as a reliable Constant RAID DPS. 

As like many other people i want to take a chance and invest my time in researching the best approach but I'd like to get the opinions and knowledge from other people first. 

My initial thoughts are that Elemental Would be a decent DPS spec in raids if you stack spell damage and intellect you can keep up with the group simply by casting lightning bolt and flame shock/searing totem.  However after playing the class I have learned that DPS can easily be sustained by stacking Fire Spell Damage and conserving mana using only searing totem flame shock and flame tongue weapon. Only casting lightning bolt when clearcastjng procs. 

Please leave your thoughts and any other advice so I can begin to pave the way for the few unicorns that are Elemental raid dps!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Smashlol said:

However after playing the class I have learned that DPS can easily be sustained by stacking Fire Spell Damage and conserving mana using only searing totem flame shock and flame tongue weapon. Only casting lightning bolt when clearcastjng procs. 

You'd do horrible DPS. Flametongue does scale with spell damage, yes, but only a small amount. I think 10 or 15%. Flame Shock also does little damage and will get pushed off by other debuffs very quickly. Hardcasting lightning bolt will also reset your swing timer.

 

You'd be doing pitifully low DPS while bringing nothing extra to the raid, that a resto shaman couldn't.

 

That's the reason why Ele is not viable in PvE: You do crap DPS and you don't bring anything special to the raid. A resto shaman can bring all the same totem buffs while actually being useful, with great healing.

 

Though it's not so much that Ele has bad damage, it's more that you can't really sustain that damage for long periods of time, because you have no mana restoring abilities like Mage/Warlock do. Even spamming runes/major mana, you'd still run OOM in under 2 minutes of spamming lightning bolt.

Edited by gotmilk0112

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yeah, Ele does fine in PvP. It's just really bad for PvE. Either you do shit DPS, or you go OOM in 2 minutes.

 

There's a reason why people are reluctant to have non-healer priest/shaman/druid/paladin in raids: they're not very good in PvE.

Edited by gotmilk0112

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, gotmilk0112 said:

(...)

There's a reason why people are reluctant to have non-healer priest/shaman/druid/paladin in raids: they're not very good in PvE.

IMHO, there's a sort of so-called conventional wisdom that limits the way in which this game can be enjoyed and this is one of such limits.

Pre-wotlk Wow had a fourth role apart from tank/heal/dps. It was the support role, the jack of all trades who can perform a rotation of dps-offheal-offtank.  It makes everything much easier in a challenging context.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Fladrif said:

IMHO, there's a sort of so-called conventional wisdom that limits the way in which this game can be enjoyed and this is one of such limits.

Pre-wotlk Wow had a fourth role apart from tank/heal/dps. It was the support role, the jack of all trades who can perform a rotation of dps-offheal-offtank.  It makes everything much easier in a challenging context.

You would have loved our lay-back hilarious guild in vanilla. We were mostly a wpvp/bg guild the second best on alliance side. We raided in pvp specs and use shadowpriest/paladins/ele sham (our guild leader was ele). We didn't care about being server 1 or 10th... we did it for the hell of it 40 of us and it was an absolute blast.

One of our greatest moments was the supressors room. Our guild first time through and our guild leader says in vent " how are we suppose to zerg this?"  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Fladrif said:

IMHO, there's a sort of so-called conventional wisdom that limits the way in which this game can be enjoyed and this is one of such limits.

Well sure, if you want to gimp yourself with subpar DPS classes, more power to you. It's just that most people don't want to spend 5 hours in MC due to having lots of hybrid DPS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Csant if I was a guild leader I would be exactly like the one you described. I am all for having fun and destroying shit the most fun way possible. 

Add me in game smashlol. I'd love to talk with you guys some more. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Csant if I was a guild leader I would be exactly like the one you described. I am all for having fun and destroying shit the most fun way possible. 

Add me in game smashlol. I'd love to talk with you guys some more. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, gotmilk0112 said:

Well sure, if you want to gimp yourself with subpar DPS classes, more power to you. It's just that most people don't want to spend 5 hours in MC due to having lots of hybrid DPS.

They're not subpar dps classes: they are support classes able to perform a rotation of roles.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Fladrif said:

They're not subpar dps classes: they are support classes able to perform a rotation of roles.

The problem is that they're really bad at "supporting". An Ele shaman does crap DPS and crap healing and doesn't bring anything that a Resto shaman can't. It's not like Spriest where you bring a useful buff for the other DPS, or Feral where you can offtank things. Ele is not a good "support".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion, it depends on many variables: "dps" is a slang that doesn't describe properly the DD roles.

For example, we should consider the "burst damage" and the "slow damage", meaning how long it can sustain a certain "damage per second" output.

Ele shaman isn't a caster dps: it's a melee DD with good burst damage, powerful totemic buffs, an off-heal component and the armor+shield to off-tank minor adds.

Shamans are like paladins who traded some of their armor with some nice DD abilities.

It's rare to find people who play hybrid classes by rotating their roles. If you have a Ele shaman that doesn't throw a single healing and can't off-tank a minor add, then you're absolutely right.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Fladrif said:

For example, we should consider the "burst damage" and the "slow damage", meaning how long it can sustain a certain "damage per second" output.

Many other DPS can sustain full DPS much longer than a Shaman can.

6 hours ago, Fladrif said:

Ele shaman isn't a caster dps: it's a melee DD with good burst damage, powerful totemic buffs, an off-heal component and the armor+shield to off-tank minor adds.

"good burst", while having terrible "non-burst", crappy "off-heals", and crappy "armor". Why would you use an Ele shaman to tank ANYTHING? Even a properly "tank" specced Enhancement shaman is still vastly less tanky than a Warrior.

6 hours ago, Fladrif said:

It's rare to find people who play hybrid classes by rotating their roles.

Because they're terrible and there's no reason to have one. This idea of a "hybrid" spec that tanks, heals and damages, doesn't fit in vanilla raids, because there's no reason to bring someone who is inferior at everything they do. And Ele shaman does less than half the DPS of a normal DPS, and less than half the healing of a normal healer. It is much better to just bring a normal DPS or normal healer. There's no point in bringing this weird, clunky "hybrid" into the raid.

 

They're rare because they suck and nobody uses them, outside of ultra-casual guilds that take 2 months to progress through MC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, gotmilk0112 said:

 

They're rare because they suck and nobody uses them, outside of ultra-casual guilds that take 2 months to progress through MC.

Thats the magic ticket right there... everyone is in a hurry. 

That's why I love my vanilla guild we took our time and had fun while raiding and guess what we eventually caught up to those guilds that rushed through shit. We did it with shadowpriest healing, ret pallies, ele sham, feral. Was it easy fuck no, but we had fun with all 40 people. I remember one our shadowpriest left during MC cause the bg queue pop'd. LOL 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, quasexort said:

Damn ret pallies AND ele shamans in the same raid in vanilla.

Yeah, we did it the wrong way, but fun for us. We used to have Karaoke night on vent... our pallies would pop the tanks. One time at BWL while on my mage... I say over vent cause no one was paying attention... "help me summon" and half the raid ported to stormwind. LOL  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can't have Ret Pallies and Ele Shaman in the same raid in Vanilla. In fact, you cannot have Pallies and Shaman in the same raid in Vanilla...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didnt mean at once. My guild started off as horde (Firetree) and switch to alliance when a rp-pvp server opened up (Maelstrom). 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ele shaman is sustainable through long fights but you need right gear and bufs. 6k mana unbuffed at least and all int buf you can stack. Mana saving/free cast/ regen trinket and a good potion rotation. Being in grp with resto shaman helps alot too. Use LB only, shock/CH cost too much. Maybe even start the first phase with lower rank LB and save top rank for nukephase or when you know the tank has enough aggro to hold your continous crits. Drink after dropping totems and know your class!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, tefrin said:

Ele shaman is sustainable through long fights but you need right gear and bufs. 6k mana unbuffed at least and all int buf you can stack. Mana saving/free cast/ regen trinket and a good potion rotation. Being in grp with resto shaman helps alot too. Use LB only, shock/CH cost too much. Maybe even start the first phase with lower rank LB and save top rank for nukephase or when you know the tank has enough aggro to hold your continous crits. Drink after dropping totems and know your class!

Possible later in naxx gear year, at current content you cannot sustain

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/27/2017 at 7:05 PM, gotmilk0112 said:

The problem is that they're really bad at "supporting". An Ele shaman does crap DPS and crap healing and doesn't bring anything that a Resto shaman can't. It's not like Spriest where you bring a useful buff for the other DPS, or Feral where you can offtank things. Ele is not a good "support".

Have you actually tried playing an ele sham? You mention that they can't bring anything that a resto shammy can't healing wise..... yeah, because resto is the healing spec. That being said the only talents an elemental shaman really miss out on is the 10% to heals, not really a big deal.

Anyways in terms of damage ele shammies do just fine when properly geared and are competitive on short fights. Not to mention if a healer dies on the fight you can switch roles and everything will still be fine.

As for "not bringing anything" Shammy totems are always going to be useful, whether it's tranquil air for casters or wind fury for the melee. Not to mention stuff like resist buffs and mana spring. Ideally every raid would have a shammy for each group.... the problem is that 8 people casting chain heal is overdoing it. That's where the hybrid specs come in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also for OP, the big thing is shammies need spell pen since they don't benefit from curse of the elements or shadows, like all other casters do. The tricky part here is actually obtaining the gear because most of what you need doesn't really come out until AQ40. Being in a guild that has more than one tank with thunder fury (for the debuff) can help out a lot here. That being said you'll definitely want to have a healing off set for certain fights and you'll want to be prepared to spend a lot of time farming potions.

That being said elemental spec when played to it's fullest is probably one of the most interesting specs out there when raiding, besides the fury warrior spec of course. You essentially can do 2 roles at once which is a lot more interesting when raiding.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ele shamans are pretty crappy for progression, since you will certainly be oom in every bossfight and probly even most of the harder trash packs.

In speedruns whatsoever, eles can do really really nice dps. Mages for examples will spend time buffing the raid, handing out water and decursing. You will do none of that. Fights won´t last that long but the time between pulls and the tanks building aggro is enough to refresh your manapool with drinking. If you want to raid as elemental, you might want to offer your raidleader to play resto in progression (already get that sw33t ele loot) and then respecc once the instance is on solid farm, since he would then anyways want to swap out some heals for dps, since otherwise the healers will be bored af :D

 

As stated above spellpen is probly the best stat you can get. Also downranking LB is not really that much of a dps loss compared to the mana spend.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/10/2017 at 4:57 AM, ShaqPack said:

You mention that they can't bring anything that a resto shammy can't healing wise....

No, I said that ele cannot bring anything that a resto shaman can't.

 

Meaning, totems and other such raid support. Ele does not bring anything new. They have all the same totems, all the same spells, as a Resto shaman does.

 

Except, Resto also brings Mana Tide which is a large boon to your other healers.

On 4/10/2017 at 4:57 AM, ShaqPack said:

Anyways in terms of damage ele shammies do just fine when properly geared and are competitive on short fights. Not to mention if a healer dies on the fight you can switch roles and everything will still be fine.

Keyword: "short fights"

 

The only raids with "short" fights are MC and ZG. Everything above that has longer encounters, which Ele cannot survive through, unless you downrank your lightning bolt and do even worse DPS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×