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Azuregos Bug abuse

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Hi,

there was an Azuregos raid about 30 minutes ago on Elysium PVP.

Horde had him at 15% - Alliance killed Horde, then finished off Azuregos who still was at 15%.

Of course, I'm  just concerned about the part where the boss is not reset and still drops loot ...

Just for the future - is this a mechanic that can be used without sanctions?

 

Cheers

 

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It is currently under the GM Teams belief that "THIS IS NOT AN EXPLOIT" bosses are not supposed to immediately regenerate back to 100% health when reset.

You may use PvP tactics to take down a raid and take the kill for yourself so long as there is no Exploitation and Grieving taking place In the sense that the TOU is being broken.

This is considered BLIZZLIKE and promoted PVP within the zones.

We want you to fight for a kill, but we DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT want you To Exploit, grief, or bug the encounter out to your benefit.

Doing so will result in a sanction. I recommend all who are attending World Boss Events please record the encounters for evidence of TOU breakage.

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23 minutes ago, Indormi said:

It is currently under the GM Teams belief that "THIS IS NOT AN EXPLOIT" bosses are not supposed to immediately regenerate back to 100% health when reset.

You may use PvP tactics to take down a raid and take the kill for yourself so long as there is no Exploitation and Grieving taking place In the sense that the TOU is being broken.

This is considered BLIZZLIKE and promoted PVP within the zones.

We want you to fight for a kill, but we DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT want you To Exploit, grief, or bug the encounter out to your benefit.

Doing so will result in a sanction. I recommend all who are attending World Boss Events please record the encounters for evidence of TOU breakage.

Well, can you make an unblizzlike change to it so that if it resets it is actually evading it's health back to 100% or something? This kind of mechanic, though blizzlike, is not good for the health and enjoyment of world boss encounters.

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I'm sorry to say that the guild in question is perfectly within its rights to kill outdoor raid bosses to its collective heart's content while engaging in open World PvP, so long as its members employ legitimate tactics to secure the encounters for themselves. If, however, the guild in question is purposefully causing same-faction groups to fail in their own attempts to ensure that its "sovereignty" remains unchallenged, that may be cause for concern. Should you observe such behavior, I would encourage you to bring it to our attention via in-game petition, and be sure to include as much of the following information as you can recall, so that a thorough analysis of the situation may be conducted by our department: 
 

  • The names of any players involved in the inappropriate or unsportsmanlike behavior 
  • A video of the activities in which they are engaging themselves to warrant being reported 
  • An approximate time-frame during which this occurred 

 

If you would like a change to the rules... I recommend going over to the suggestions forum and submitting it formally.

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3 hours ago, Indormi said:

It is currently under the GM Teams belief that "THIS IS NOT AN EXPLOIT" bosses are not supposed to immediately regenerate back to 100% health when reset.

This is the key point. So what IS supposed to happen when a Boss is reset?

 

There is currently a feature in LAVA RUNS where if you pull emp, and then reset the encounter exactly like Azuregos's tag is getting switched you will avoid all the adds in the emperors room (they pull with the event, and when you reset the pull but mantain aggro, you negate that event)

 

We need a great deal of clarification on what is and is not allowed, because the BRD farm sounds like an exploit to me so I haven't attempted it. But the azuregos reset is the same tactic, and allowed? Am I allowed to be farming an Iron Foe like the above?

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20 minutes ago, pre said:

We need a great deal of clarification on what is and is not allowed, because the BRD farm sounds like an exploit to me so I haven't attempted it. But the azuregos reset is the same tactic, and allowed? Am I allowed to be farming an Iron Foe like the above?

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/45957-pulling-the-emperor-only-in-brd/

An answer to your question. BRD pull you described is an exploit.

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Thanks Muldreg!

According to that thread:

On 5/3/2017 at 10:13 PM, Stodola said:

This is an exploit that we actively look for and sanction.

You may not use this kind of "creative use of game mechanics" on any boss.

 

So what we need clarification on is what are "creative use of game mechanics".

3 hours ago, Indormi said:

You may use PvP tactics to take down a raid and take the kill for yourself so long as there is no Exploitation and Grieving taking place In the sense that the TOU is being broken.

This is considered BLIZZLIKE and promoted PVP within the zones.

We want you to fight for a kill, but we DO NOT and I repeat DO NOT want you To Exploit, grief, or bug the encounter out to your benefit.

So is the difference here that it is two seperate factions competing? If Azuregos had been un-contested, and two horde raids were fighting it, one gets wiped and the other picks the tag up at a low %, would that also be allowed?

 

And the same is with any sort of Boss encounter that doesn't have a unique event tied to the pull, it's allowed to switch the tag on the encounter?

 

The dragons of nightmare arn't released on Elysium yet, but they have abilities they only use at at 25/50/75 hp left; the sort of abilities that this pull would allow you to completely avoid.

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There is no "Creative us of Mechanics" on this encounter.  This boss has a aggro table that checks all who encounter it for threat...

If a raid wipes another raid, while having someone on that threat table... the tag will change. 

 

After further looking into this matter, the reset you are you are speaking of when players are gaining a tag with low hp happens when the raid is wiped, and the boss returns to the spawn locations in which he was pulled from.  After he has begins to evade, he begins to regen HP.  The way they are achieving the tag is that the boss has not had the time to fully regen the HP as the raid was wiped either ON or NEAR the initial location of the boss when it was pulled.

 

So by me saying there is no use of "Creative Mechanics" specifically refers to your example of the BRD boss reset vs this one just to clarify.

Furthermore, there is no "RESET" mechanic on Azurugos that even remotely resembles BRD Emperor.  The Emperor is tied to an entire room, where if engaged properly a group can avoid that test entirely.  Azy doesnt employ such a method.

 

You may use ANY and ALL PvP methods to dethrone a guild from a boss kill... As long as there is no EXPLOITATION!!

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21 minutes ago, Indormi said:
21 minutes ago, Indormi said:

There is no "Creative us of Mechanics" on this encounter.  This boss has a aggro table that checks all who encounter it for threat...

So there is no general ruling on this? It is entirely "per" encounter?

 

21 minutes ago, Indormi said:
21 minutes ago, Indormi said:

If a raid wipes another raid, while having someone on that threat table... the tag will change.

Is this a unique mechanic to world bosses and cross faction? Because mobs stay tagged by the initial tagger until the threat table is completely empty or the mob is reset manually.

 

21 minutes ago, Indormi said:
21 minutes ago, Indormi said:

Furthermore, there is no "RESET" mechanic on Azurugos that even remotely resembles BRD Emperor.  The Emperor is tied to an entire room, where if engaged properly a group can avoid that test entirely.  Azy doesnt employ such a method.

So for world bosses that resetting the encounter would avoid a mechanic, this would be considered an exploit? Like the dragons of nightmare or does the 75/50/25 ability not fall under the same type of "event"

 

21 minutes ago, Indormi said:
21 minutes ago, Indormi said:

You may use ANY and ALL PvP methods to dethrone a guild from a boss kill... As long as there is no EXPLOITATION!!

That's not in question, I'm just trying to clarify what is supposed to happen - if anything, during a world boss reset; or if a reset is even necessary to switch the tag?

 

Edited by pre
sorry for double quoting, no idea how to fix

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2 hours ago, pre said:

Is this a unique mechanic to world bosses and cross faction? Because mobs stay tagged by the initial tagger until the threat table is completely empty or the mob is reset manually.

I would love to get a response to this specifically.  My experience has been the same as pre's, where the agro table needs to clear before a tag change can occur.  If this is specific to Azuregos then I think we understand what is going on, if not then something is broken somehow.

 

2 hours ago, Indormi said:

There is no "Creative us of Mechanics" on this encounter.  This boss has a aggro table that checks all who encounter it for threat...

If a raid wipes another raid, while having someone on that threat table... the tag will change.  

I have a video that directly contradicts this.  You can see in the following clip our entire raid is wiped except one person who is out of combat with Azuregos.  Azuregos is still in combat with many alliance yet the tag is still assigned to our raid group.  Roughly 41 seconds into the video, well after our raid is completely off the agro table, the boss magically switched.

Here is the video showing Azuregos switching:  

 

Here is a video showing how every other mob's agro table works:  https://youtu.be/5q9IBO7pNgo

 

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this is how I always experienced mob tagging on vanilla. I have never seen this so called tag stealing on bosses even when I killed Kazzak or Azuregos with my guild back then. The bosses only reseted their tag when there was no-one else to kill. It didn't matter if the group was different.

If I died to a npc while the tag. was mine, it would not change until everyone in the threat table was dead. Most of times I died to mobs while a horde player helped me kill it and the tag would remain mine for me to loot and even get the experience.

The only tag stealing I ever heard of, was only when people mob tagged to get kill credit, pissing others off :P

However, I think there was a mechanic in place where if you dealt a certain damage % on the mob then everyone else, the tag would switch to you, but I do not remember where I heard of this.

Edit 1:

Retail mechanic: There is another mechanic that is called shared mob tagging that only happen per faction raid groups and works as the following: Person A joins raid A, then tags the mob. Person A leaves raid and joins raid B. Raid B now also had tag on the boss (Person A needs to be leader or have started the raid).

About that damage % tag switching, it occurs on NPCS and I think its like 70% hp.

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After further looking into this matter, the reset you are you are speaking of when players are gaining a tag with low hp happens when the raid is wiped or a teleport is bugging out, and the boss returns to the spawn locations in which he was pulled from.  After he has begins to evade, he begins to regen HP.  The way they are achieving the tag is that the boss has not had the time to fully regen the HP as the raid was wiped either ON or NEAR the initial location of the boss when it was pulled.

 

So by me saying there is no use of "Creative Mechanics" specifically refers to your example of the BRD boss reset vs this one just to clarify.

 

I apologize for the mix-up on the answer.  

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On 5/7/2017 at 7:49 AM, Indormi said:

This is considered BLIZZLIKE and promoted PVP within the zones.

Going to quote a member of the Azuregos kill group that was robbed:

Quote

It doesn’t matter if it’s blizzlike or not. Our gameplay has changed over the past couple of years and sometimes adjustments have to be made. It’s not blizzlike either to increase herb spawnrates due to high server pop, to lock whispering for lvl <10 players or to change mob/boss mechanics to prevent solo farming in DM. It might be a known bug from vanilla days but I’m sure that kill-stealing bosses on this level was not INTENDED by blizzard and if it had become such a huge (and common) problem like now on elysium they would have fixed it.

My expectation is that the mob is tagged, and the raid with tag tries to kill it.  an enemy faction raid is free to try to kill us.  If they are successful and do so, the boss should evade, regenerate it's health, and return to the spot where it was tagged.  This npc is being stolen, before it returns to the spot where it is tagged.  It does not have any time to regenerate health.  You (staff in general, not you specifically Indormi) have already made unblizzlike changes to the server, including changes which I quoted above, and even specifically changes to npc regeneration in the past (polymorph) in the effort to make a better experience.

You can't play the "blizzlike" card when your server is only "selectively blizzlike when we feel like it"

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The changes that we make that aren't blizzlike are due to inflated populations that a vanilla server never had to handle. Changes like herb spawnrates are increased because the amount of herbs available vs the amount of players was an unsustainable amount and in the end made the server feel not blizzlike. Just because we make changes that we feel give players a more realistic, blizzlike experience despite having a larger population does not mean we just pick and choose when to be blizzlike when we like to. This is something that was a feature in vanilla wow, and will continue to be a feature here.

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Would you entertain me by explaining how changing npc/boss mechanics in dire maul to prevent solo farming supported by a higher population and an intangible "blizzlike feel"?  How is changing the npc regeneration when afflicted with polymorph supported by those same reasons?

Blizzlike is an objective description.  "Blizzlike feel" is subjective.  You choose what "blizzlike feel" means whenever the as-close-as-possible-to-retail-vanilla-wow "blizzlike" definition doesn't fit what you want.  If you won't admit that it doesn't matter.  It's self-evident.

I'm cracking up when you un-ironically call a bug a feature.  Azuregos is not travelling to the spot he was tagged at.  He's not regenerating health at all.

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ppl who are not in your raid should not be able to generate threat on mobs that you pulled - it is simple

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1 hour ago, Tunes said:

Would you entertain me by explaining how changing npc/boss mechanics in dire maul to prevent solo farming supported by a higher population and an intangible "blizzlike feel"?  How is changing the npc regeneration when afflicted with polymorph supported by those same reasons?

Blizzlike is an objective description.  "Blizzlike feel" is subjective.  You choose what "blizzlike feel" means whenever the as-close-as-possible-to-retail-vanilla-wow "blizzlike" definition doesn't fit what you want.  If you won't admit that it doesn't matter.  It's self-evident.

I'm cracking up when you un-ironically call a bug a feature.  Azuregos is not travelling to the spot he was tagged at.  He's not regenerating health at all.

This is not a debate topic over this vs that, blizzlike DM vs unblizzlike ....

Changes are made in regards to certain aspects of the game to better set things in line with the server as a whole.  During retail certain classes had hugely distinctive advantages over others in regards to farming gold, just to answer your question.  Our slight tweaks are to bring everyone done to a more level notch. 

 

If we were to go and fix everything wrong with the original vanilla wow... things like the Honor System would have to be completely restructured, certain battlegrounds tweaked to make them more fair, class balances brought back in line with some of what happened in TBC ect ect.  Keep in mind... Expansions brought a lot of what you are asking for, fixes to the broken parts of vanilla.  We are playing the original because we enjoy how raw it was, we enjoyed the crude mold that produced the franchise we so cling to this very day.  IF we begin fixing things... we may as well end up going back to live where those changes are made for a "broader audience."

 

We are aware of a teleportation bug with Azuregos, but at this current time... it is 100% blizzlike and remained unchanged for quite some time.  If you however feel so inclined as to push forward a change, I recommend you visit our suggestion forums.  Our staff does look at those, and bounces ideas off one another to see what can and cant be done.  Im sorry you disagree with the Vanilla feel of vanilla... but we are here to play vanilla in all of its brokenness.  

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56 minutes ago, Indormi said:

This is not a debate topic over this vs that, blizzlike DM vs unblizzlike ....

Changes are made in regards to certain aspects of the game to better set things in line with the server as a whole.  During retail certain classes had hugely distinctive advantages over others in regards to farming gold, just to answer your question.  Our slight tweaks are to bring everyone done to a more level notch. 

I wonder if you understand what cognitive dissonance means.  I don't mean to play the contrarian here, and I won't revisit this again in the thread as I think we're getting dangerously offtopic, but you're literally saying two conflicting things at one time.  You can't defend your unblizzlike mechanic changes for whatever circumstance and then use blizzlike mechanic stasis to defend not fixing a bug.

57 minutes ago, Indormi said:

If we were to go and fix everything wrong with the original vanilla wow... things like the Honor System would have to be completely restructured, certain battlegrounds tweaked to make them more fair, class balances brought back in line with some of what happened in TBC ect ect.  Keep in mind... Expansions brought a lot of what you are asking for, fixes to the broken parts of vanilla.  We are playing the original because we enjoy how raw it was, we enjoyed the crude mold that produced the franchise we so cling to this very day.  IF we begin fixing things... we may as well end up going back to live where those changes are made for a "broader audience."

Yea... Yea... your first two sentences are true.  But back up a second. Expansions brought a lot of what I'm asking for?  I'm asking for Azuregos to be fixed.  I haven't asked for any of the changes to herb spawn rates or dire maul or anything else.  I wish that unblizzlike changes had never been made and I think that it continues to be one of the worst parts of Elysium.  I realize though that ship has already sailed.  I get that if you begin "fixing things" that in the end, a lot of vanilla was demonstrably broken and you never run out of things to "fix" until we're all playing Legion.  That is EXACTLY MY POINT on this particular issue.  You've already, by your own admission, begun "fixing" things.

1 hour ago, Indormi said:

We are aware of a teleportation bug with Azuregos, but at this current time... it is 100% blizzlike and remained unchanged for quite some time.  If you however feel so inclined as to push forward a change, I recommend you visit our suggestion forums.  Our staff does look at those, and bounces ideas off one another to see what can and cant be done.  Im sorry you disagree with the Vanilla feel of vanilla... but we are here to play vanilla in all of its brokenness.  

Ok, thank goodness I've got a useful sentence here, that you're aware of a bug.  OK.  With the teleport, apparently. But not with Azuregos' regeneration or evade mechanics when the boss returns to where the boss was pulled from.  but there you go using that word again, blizzlike.  And as to what I disagree with, the vanilla feel of vanilla, I don't think you've been paying attention.  I'd be pleased as punch if all the unblizzlike changes that have been made to this server were reverted so it was actually blizzlike, and not just a "blizzlike experience".

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I will place this in the bug-tracker for the dev team to look at, and lock the thread to avoid it going off topic any further.  Thank you all for your concern on the matter.  Again please post in the suggestions forums, and Bug-tracker if you wish to see this fixed.  Enjoy your time playing the game!


Thank you!

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