Un-nerf farms?

[Zaltec 0]

Seriously why would you nerf farms,  It only hurts your average player and benefits gold sellers.  Lock boxes no longer drop anything 90% of the time?  Cannot loot pickpocket targets with only money on loot table?  Resist rates for pick pocket are not calculated via hit?  Really?  

First off you cannot create a blizz like experience stop pretending, Too much information available to ever be able to do that.  Many design decisions when I ask myself who these kind of nerfs help I cannot help but see that your gold sellers are only people on winning side.  A 5k population on elysium means you could easily up azuregos spawn rates and kazzak or perhaps make world notifications when they spawn to prevent monopolies on them.  Also farming for dark runes is pretty fun getting 30 kills an hour because 10-20 people always there.

Just my thoughts best of luck in vanilla scene.  I understand most of you will come to the defense of these decisions.

[Invictuslol 0]

There are 3 servers as part of the Elysium project. I know they are on different patches but all your problems seem to be based around a overloaded player base? Surely you'd be better off rerolling to one of the less populated servers? There is still full raiding and PvP opportunities on the servers. Ideally it would be perfect for one of the other two servers be chosen to take a third of the player base from Elysium?

In truth I have been thinking the similar though; leveling 20-30 this weekend has been rough and I've had to devote at least 4/5 hours into herbalism to keep its level in harmony with my player level and questing zones. This can get frustrating with a distinct lack of nodes to level up on (let alone trying to farm for money!). But then the answer for me is to reroll now, before getting too settled on Elysium.

Its definitely a very complicated issue on how to balance it though, the answer is not as simple as, "Up the drop rates and respawn rates"

[flowqz 34]

its to counter inflation, also blizzlike doesnt mean a "exact copy".

 

if you want a more detailed response please use the search function on that matter.

[Invictuslol 0]

@flowqz Actually it wasn't even a conscious decision, it is a bug 

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/50104-herb-spawn-buff-is-gone/

[Zaltec 0]

I highly doubt lockboxes containing nothing is intentional.   Opened only 30 got 1 jade and a star ruby.

[Guest]

Lockbox changes were entirely intentional, as most of the lockbox contents you were getting were added in the Rogue Review of patch 1.12 - IE, lockboxes not containing the items is Blizzlike for Elysium PvP.

[Zaltec 0]

I played in vanilla mained a rogue i pretty much always remember greys being in every single lockbox.  I dont remember dust and rogue poisons mats in them though.

[Hudson 16]

44 minutes ago, Zaltec said:

I played in vanilla mained a rogue i pretty much always remember greys being in every single lockbox.  I dont remember dust and rogue poisons mats in them though.

If you can find some vanilla evidence to support your memory from 11 years ago, you should post that in a bug report on our bug tracker. A good place to start looking for evidence would be Allakhazam using the Wayback Machine. Check the comment dates for the items against the dates for patches, and also check the Item ID of the items against items added during a similar patch.

For example, the item I linked above is contained in Heavy Junkboxes, but has an item ID of 24281, which is in the range of item IDs created in the 1.12 patch. Furthermore, you can see a comment in the link above that says, "omg! new item!" that was posted on August 23rd, 2006. For reference, patch 1.12 was released on August 22nd, 2006.

Using evidence like this in your bug report will be much more effecting than attempting to cite your memory 11 years after the fact.

[Zaltec 0]

I wish i had something more than my memory.

Patch 1.1.0 Pick pocketing now has a chance of getting you a locked Junkbox, which is a locked item that generally has money in it.

Patch 1.3.0 Very high-end gems will no longer be acquired from junk boxes or pickpocketing.

Patch 1.12.0 All manner of rogue reagents can be found in locked junkboxes (obtained from pickpocketing).

Only information available from blizzard site  Allakhazam was unreliable for drop rates since it was gathered from people donating data they logged.  I do remember 100% of all lockboxes having silver inside.

This information is from blizzard website patch notes.

[Zaltec 0]

Moral of the story lockboxes containing nothing is not WAI

[Zaltec 0]

Also this means that star rubies in lock boxes isn't WAI it should contain the lower level gems.

[Ravid 8]

On 7/17/2017 at 3:54 AM, flowqz said:

its to counter inflation, also blizzlike doesnt mean a "exact copy".

 

if you want a more detailed response please use the search function on that matter.

Inflation implies new money being created. More money = inflation.

DME drops herbs, herbs vendor for nothing. DME nerf = less herbs = more expensive herbs = average player being poorer.

DME grey drops = new money = inflation.

If you want to fight inflation nerf the greys, not the herbs that keep them cheap. Gromsblood is sitting at 75s EACH, plaguebloom 75s EACH. You think 75s/ea herbs are affordable to the average player? I'm a mage with a lot of money but I'd never spend 75s for a gromblood lmao, I'd farm it myself.

Nerfing lashers across the board = less herbs AND less greys. So you now just did a double whammy to the server.

Also, lashers are something everyone can farm (more or less), not just mages. So now the average joe-shmo shaman/warrior/etc. gets less money. 

 

Mages make a lot of money off of DMN skins. So you nerfed wolves across the board, but the skins are still the same (and they better stay that way). Bugs are still the same. Skins + bugs = new money = inflation. Most mages I know farm DMN, espcially if they have skinning like me.

 

On a side note, rogues aren't the biggest source of inflation by far. I had no idea that they nerfed lockboxes AND pickpocketing. That's fucking stupid, coming from a mage. A huge source of income for rogues are those two sources. 

 

If they decide to go even more after mages and nerf DMN more, mages just move to BRD farm. It's fucking whack a mole you aren't going to win. If you want to fight gold selling then fight gold selling. IP ban China, there goes most of it. Stop making life hell for regular players and harder for mages.

[Glemtlol 1]

U got Whitekidney on ur team a known gold seller, ofc They do stuff that benefit gold sellers. Also can u guys make my ignore list bigger? Being spammed by gold sellers 24/7

[Undertanker 88]

Reposting my post from another thread here as it is more relevant.  (was in response to a complaint about Tribute nerf for Hunters)

It pretty much explains the adverse effects on these farming nerfs on the economy, increased time investment for raid consumables, and forcing additional competition for resources in open world, as well as limiting alt creation.

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Don't forget ZG solo bijou farming from mages. DM East AoE farm route.  Rogues pick-pocket.

I get the intentions of why certain changes (not fixes) were implemented with the ideology of limiting the GPH a specific class can insert into the economy.  However, the negative effects are greater than the positives.

Major Mana Potions tripled in price shortly after this change (not fix).

Large Brilliant Shard prices doubled shortly after this change.

Bijou prices in increased greatly before the lack of ZG runs due to increased amount of content.

 

These "farm classes" which used to supply the server with an abundance of raid consumables (potions, herbs, enchant materials, buff regents)  can no longer do so, adding scarcity to said items, increasing demand, and increasing the out of pocket cost across the board for ALL classes.   Changes were implemented to make things more "fair" for other classes, though only increased the required hours farming per week for non-farm classes to get the same items they were obtaining from AH at 1/3 the cost.  I don't get a shit who the seller is, I care about the listing price.

Unfortunately the changes implemented extend well beyond the items obtained from these farm methods.  Think of the gold flow as a flowing river.  These changes are comparable to building a dam to contain this water flow.  Now that the water is restricted, everybody down stream is thirsty.  "But how?", you may ask.

These changes have effectively pulled a large percent of the classes in the game out of proficient instanced farming (Hunters - Tribute, Rogues - BRD, Mages/Locks/Priest/Pally/Druid (spec dependent) - DM East) and pulled them into farming open world locations.   This has added additional competition for camps/nodes which lowers resources gained per hour by individuals that would of had less competition if other GPH farmers where in instanced locations.  The lower resources gained per hour translates into higher AH listing prices for all modestly sought after materials/resources/consumables for all classes across the board.  Elemental Earth, Elemental Fire, Essence of Water, Herbs, DS Leather, so on and so on.

It also creates less of an incentive for other non-farm classes to roll alts that are better at such task, since comparable (not as good) GPH can be obtained with healing/tank/solo DPS builds.  With less reason to roll alts, this limits the economic activity and AH item diversity of low - mid level gear/resources.  Unfortunately this also feeds into promoting sticking with one toon - farming your needed GPW (gold per week) to maintain your consumables and log off.  Why put 200 hours into an alt farmer if my GPH is only a 20% difference between 40g and 50g.

I could farm at 40g per hour for 900 hours on my already level 60 toon for 36,000g.

I could farm at 50g per hour for 700 hours (200 leveling estimation = 0 gold) on my farming alt for 35,000g.

So even at 37.5 days played on my farming alt, I don't even break even yet for the time investment of what this alt toon even is, a farm alt.  

So unless you have the time to raid full time on two different toons, the reasons for leveling an alt are limited to level 20 summoners.

[Justme 9]

You guys are assuming you have to use consumables/flasks for every encounter. This is not the case,

There is no encounter in Elysium atm that requires you to fully buff up. Doing so should be the exception, not the rule.

This isn't Retail where you can blow everything you've got all the time. You should make your flask matter and only use it for the bosses you struggle (read: 20+ attempts) with,

[Lazias 1]

5 hours ago, Justme said:

You guys are assuming you have to use consumables/flasks for every encounter. This is not the case,

There is no encounter in Elysium atm that requires you to fully buff up. Doing so should be the exception, not the rule.

This isn't Retail where you can blow everything you've got all the time. You should make your flask matter and only use it for the bosses you struggle (read: 20+ attempts) with,

True but alot of raiding guilds will get on you if you don't have all your consumables ready each week, for every raid. Some guilds are trying to break their best speed, others maybe just want to farm through it faster.

[Justme 9]

5 hours ago, Lazias said:

True but alot of raiding guilds will get on you if you don't have all your consumables ready each week, for every raid. Some guilds are trying to break their best speed, others maybe just want to farm through it faster.

Sounds like a guild problem and not a spawn problem Just because demand is high doesn't mean the supply should be upped.

[Undertanker 88]

@Justme

What does the amount of consumables used have to do with their GPH restrictions for certain farm locations being nerfed with custom changes having adverse effects on ALL classes, and on the economy - not just for lvl 60s.  Also giving less incentive to roll alts to farm with?

What does it have to do with it causing open world farm locations now being crowded with individuals what would have been instanced farming?  You see a Hunter/Mage/Rogue/Priest/Pally/Druid/Lock always grinding elementals and now you can't, herbs are hard to comeby?  They are been forced to such locations since other sources of income have been nerfed.

Preventing people select people/classes from making gold in specific ways has directly attributed to the cost of all items (not just consumables), and forced a longer HPW (hours per week) of the average player to maintain the same buying power.

 

[Justme 9]

You're under the assumption that you need to gain a certain amount of gold every week. Why is that? You don't need all the consumables to clear current content.

Every class can make 50g/hour in an instance. But not being able to should promote world pvp.
Making gold shouldn't be the incentive of rolling an alt. We already have way too many level 60 mages (in fact, I don't know anyone who doesn't have a mage alt).

If a farm location is too crowded then kill them. If they're your faction then it should lower the price of the stuff they're farming, so you can farm something with less GPH


 

[flowqz 34]

atm the best way to farm gold is rolling a hunter and farm maraudon (which didnt get nerfed). best case you even have enchanting.