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Theloras

Improved Seal of Righteousness talent

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interesting find here by Vigete on github:

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/2064

It would appear that Imp SoR should scale with +spell dmg

Re: A Guide to Paladin Tanking | 3/13/2006 2:52:11 PM PST

Improved Seal of Righteousness - Tier Two: 5 Talent Points

Increases the damage done by your Seal of Righteousness by 15%. Our basic holy damage generator and our main proactive ability to hold aggro. While an additional 15% may only add 6-7 damage with a fast weapon at level 60, thats an additional 6-7 of holy damage thats helping you generate threat and keep that mobs attention. Also, the 15% is factored in after +spell damage is calculated, meaning that this bonus can potentially be much greater.

http://web.archive.org/web/20060531113342/http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com:80/thread.aspx?fn=wow-paladin&t=929373&p=1&tmp=1#post929373

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1 minute ago, Whitewolf said:

This is huge if it gets implemented. Might be worth actually farming those crowd pummelers now.

kek!

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You get 3. I haven't bothered farming them because of the JotC decision so I don't know if they suffer from the weapon swap cooldown (most likely). Even then the 1.5 minutes of 50% increased attack speed with the 2.0 attack speed modifier for SoR is just icing.

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32 minutes ago, Whitewolf said:

You get 3. I haven't bothered farming them because of the JotC decision so I don't know if they suffer from the weapon swap cooldown (most likely). Even then the 1.5 minutes of 50% increased attack speed with the 2.0 attack speed modifier for SoR is just icing.

do you keep the normal SoR dmg amount or the hasted SoR dmg amount for the 30 seconds?

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13 hours ago, Nirinia said:

they shouldn't have a cd since theyre based on charges, except ofc the individual cd

Its the item swap cooldown I'm unsure of.

14 hours ago, Theloras said:

do you keep the normal SoR dmg amount or the hasted SoR dmg amount for the 30 seconds?

I don't think I understand what you are asking. The SoR damage stays the same regardless of having the buff or not as its based off the base weapon speed. Because of this it returns more mana and benefits 50% more from spell damage ( weapon damage and ap) while the buff is active.

I can't tell you that spell damage becomes better than swinging a slow two hander but the pummeler definitely gets it close.

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26 minutes ago, Whitewolf said:

Its the item swap cooldown I'm unsure of.

I don't think I understand what you are asking. The SoR damage stays the same regardless of having the buff or not as its based off the base weapon speed. Because of this it returns more mana and benefits 50% more from spell damage ( weapon damage and ap) while the buff is active.

I can't tell you that spell damage becomes better than swinging a slow two hander but the pummeler definitely gets it close.

so u keep original SoR damage even under the haste effects?

2.0 swing speed with 100 SoR dmg

1.0 swing speed with 100 SoR dmg as well?

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1 hour ago, Theloras said:

so u keep original SoR damage even under the haste effects?

2.0 swing speed with 100 SoR dmg

1.0 swing speed with 100 SoR dmg as well?

Technically a 1.33 speed, but yes. It's like you using any other speed increasing item or enchantment. SotC is the only special case I know of as it was considered too strong when it didn't reduce damage (it really wasnt, but eh).

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1 hour ago, Xaph said:

Does the buff remain after a weapon swap?

no it doesn't unfortunately - but at the same time that would literally be OP AF

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True haha. Given that buff though, the dps is somewhat similar to IF factoring in the proc. I imagine that most endgame 2h will out dps it by a good chunk, not to mention having to enchant every single one you farm haha.

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12 hours ago, Xaph said:

True haha. Given that buff though, the dps is somewhat similar to IF factoring in the proc. I imagine that most endgame 2h will out dps it by a good chunk, not to mention having to enchant every single one you farm haha.

If abilities scaled cost with the speed of the weapon as the damage does it would probably be the best weapon in the game. The buff is that strong. At 140 dps without the buff you start to surpass the damage put out by naxx weapons.

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On 8/17/2017 at 10:16 AM, Whitewolf said:

If abilities scaled cost with the speed of the weapon as the damage does it would probably be the best weapon in the game. The buff is that strong. At 140 dps without the buff you start to surpass the damage put out by naxx weapons.

I'm not sure what you mean by abilities scaled cost.

Some rough calculations using 500 SP and 800 AP

2.0 base speed

1.33 hasted speed

500 * .108 = 54

54 * 2 = 108 / 1.33 = 81.2 * 1.15 = 93.38

93.38 - 54 = 39.38 DPS from the proc and sp scaling

I'm not sure what the base SoR dmg is for 2.0 speed but lets be generous and give it 40 per hit

40 * 1.15 = 46

46 / 2 = 23

46 / 1.33 = 34.59

34.59 - 23 = 11.59

So the proc would give for SoR scaling, at 500 SP, a dps increase of 11.59 + 39.38 = 50.97

AP scaling

800 / 14 = 57.14

57.14 * 2.00 speed = 114.28 damage

114.28 / 1.33 = 85.92 dps

A dps increase of 85.92 - 57.14 = 28.78

Factoring in the base dps of the weapon we can figure out the dps of the hasted weapon (base + sor + hasted ap scaling) from the proc alone.

Base DPS = 58 / 1.33 = 43.61

43.61 + 50.97 + 28.78 = 123.36

Hasted dps of the weapon with SoR scaling at 500 sp and 800 ap would be 123.36. An incredible dps score. If we also factor in the added strength you'd get an extra 2.51 dps for a total of 125.87. This is incredible.

Let's take a look at 2 other examples for comparison, IF and Kalimdor's Revenge because they both have procs that scale with SP.

IF

2.4 speed

43.5 base dps

Proc's DPS value @ 5% proc rate:

I'm not sure but let's use 5% for the IF proc rate because that's what seems to have been floating around. The dps of the proc at 500 SP, not including the scaling of the white hit, but using the base 43.5 dmg is as follows.

500 * .092 = 46 * 1.15 = 52.9

We'll be conservative and say the base SoR dmg is 20 so 20 + 52.9 = 72.9.

Again, let's be conservative and give the pally 800 AP.

Added white DPS would be 800 / 14 = 57.14

IF gives 2 attacks which means (((43.5 + 57.14) * 2.4) + (72.9 * 2.4)) * 2 = (241.54 + 174.96) * 2 = 833 damage

At 5% proc rate, we'd have 60 / (2.4 / 2) = 50 attacks with SoR

50 * .05 = 2.5

(2.5 * 833) / 60 = 34.71 DPS

The IF proc would bring the base DPS of the weapon to 43.5 + 34.71 = 78.21

Now, this is a considerable difference between the two weapons.

Kalimdor's Revenge

3.2 speed

81.9 dps

This one is pretty straight forward to calculate.

Proc DPS at 5% rate is as follows.

258.5 + 500 = 758.5

60 / (3.2 / 2) = 37.5

37.5 * .05 = 1.875

1.875 * 758.5 = 1422.19 / 60 = 23.7 DPS

The added dps from strength would be 3.77

The base DPS of the weapon including proc would then be.

81.9 + 23.7 + 3.77 = 109.37

The MCP clearly wins out in the scaling department. The IF calculation is missing the added benefit of an OH but I think given these numbers we can see that the MCP is clearly the best.

Comparing to the best weapon out of Naxx for us Corrupted Ashbringer which the dps is ~ 110 I think you're right about MCP as the best weapon in the game for Ret with SoR scaling.

To make it even clearer, IF @ 2000 ap and 500 sp would be 95.35 and the MCP would be scaling much higher as well.

As a side note, comparing that number to other prominent 2h weapons I think shows that the 1h spell dmg build is actually entirely dependent on maximum consecrate uptime as even with the increased uptime on vengeance, the dps difference is quite large. 

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The spell damage build has always been about using your spells and therefore increasing the contribution of that spell power. The trick is maximizing mana per second (possible to get over 100 on average) and balancing the need for spell damage and the necessary stats for melee combat, eg. hit.

My statement about scaling was about the cost for abilities, eg. Mortal strike costing 15-16 rage when manual crowd pummeler is equipped as it attacks so much faster that it isn't penalized by that speed. But, getting ~50% more rage than other 2 handers is definitely a consideration.

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I really hope this change goes through. To give you an idea of what the buff means, currently for 1hand 1 SP = 2.75 AP and for 2hand 1 SP = 2.97 AP.

With the buff, 1hand 1 SP = 3.07 AP and for 2hand 1 SP = 3.33 AP.

This would mean 30 sp would be equivalent to 100 ap for 2h SoR. Pretty awesome.

This is with full consecrate and JoR usage and doesn't account for hit or crit.

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2 hours ago, Drakova said:

Dude can we get Imp SoR to scale with spellpower so I can become a god? That would be so insane.

god wills it

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Imp SoR will be good addition when you get plenty Spell Damage, unless you hit the number 300+ (including the JoTC) , it wont make big difference in the damage gained by the Spell Damage.

T2.5 Paladin with JoTC is op with this ;) , but 1h Spell Damage will still be far from doing DPS compare to 2h Ret in PVE , the only better option with 1h Sp is PVP version , which is indeed big big op ;)

In other hand , it will be powerful tool for Tanking.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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My end game suit with trinket up will be about 490 SP. Can we fix this? How can I get help get this going. What proof do we really have? What do we need?

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