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Zazabi

Lupos vs BT

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How bad is the camping for BT compared to Lupos?

I'm on Elysium and it seems like every other hunter, 60 or not, is camping all of the four spots.

 

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He was camped back on Nost 1.0 and I'd be surprised if that actually were the case, Myllz. If you go and tame BT for yourself, Zazabi, and confirm that no one cares for that wonderful cat, I might just have a heart attack. Good luck.

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On 9/24/2017 at 8:57 PM, Raziya said:

He was camped back on Nost 1.0 and I'd be surprised if that actually were the case, Myllz. If you go and tame BT for yourself, Zazabi, and confirm that no one cares for that wonderful cat, I might just have a heart attack. Good luck.

I run through Blasted Lands fairly often and see him up walking around.  When I tamed him on Ely I was the only one there.

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4 hours ago, Myllz said:

I run through Blasted Lands fairly often and see him up walking around.  When I tamed him on Ely I was the only one there.

You mean the Badlands?

How bizarre! It took me a week to get the little guy back on Nost 1.0. On Kronos, I was the only person camping at a given time, but I've very rarely seen him just up, even on Anathema. Oh, woe is me! My darling Broken Tooth has no one to love him. :(

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18 minutes ago, Raziya said:

You mean the Badlands?

How bizarre! It took me a week to get the little guy back on Nost 1.0. On Kronos, I was the only person camping at a given time, but I've very rarely seen him just up, even on Anathema. Oh, woe is me! My darling Broken Tooth has no one to love him. :(

Sorry, yeah.  I say the wrong name for those two zones all the time. :p  Lupos is just way too good on Elysium to bother with BT.  He might get more attention once Lupos stops doing shadow damage.

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1 hour ago, Myllz said:

Sorry, yeah.  I say the wrong name for those two zones all the time. :p  Lupos is just way too good on Elysium to bother with BT.  He might get more attention once Lupos stops doing shadow damage.

Well, Lupos is the best PvE pet, and BT is a popular PvP pet. While BT can be used for PvE, I don't think that's the main reason folks would want him, hence the confusion. Don't hunters want a great PvP pet on a PvP server? :P

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When I was leveling my mining in Badlands on Elysium, I've seen 2-3 hunters camping Broken Tooth spots almost all the time.

I did randomly run into it and tame it when there was noone around though, but I guess I got really lucky with that.

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Come to think of it, didn't they drop the respawn time from 7.5 hours to 4 hours when they added the other two spawn points for him? I remember it was exactly 7.5 hours back on Nost 1.0, while it was in that one spot, so wandering near that spot at 37+ as a hunter was a death sentence.

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4 hours ago, Raziya said:

Well, Lupos is the best PvE pet, and BT is a popular PvP pet. While BT can be used for PvE, I don't think that's the main reason folks would want him, hence the confusion. Don't hunters want a great PvP pet on a PvP server? :P

Lupos > BT for PvP right now.  Like I said, he's just far too good.

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4 hours ago, Myllz said:

Lupos > BT for PvP right now.  Like I said, he's just far too good.

I've never heard that about him, although I can imagine he's fair for prot warriors or some high-armor class. What's so good in particular about him for PvP?

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On 9/25/2017 at 2:57 AM, Raziya said:

He was camped back on Nost 1.0 and I'd be surprised if that actually were the case, Myllz. If you go and tame BT for yourself, Zazabi, and confirm that no one cares for that wonderful cat, I might just have a heart attack. Good luck.

Almost had a heart attack myself! Was just passing through Badlands on my way to Searing Gorge when NPCscan goes off.

There he was, all by his lonesome. Needless to say I instantly abandoned my old trusty King Bangalash and tamed BT. <3

Never really got to see if he was being camped.

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36 minutes ago, Zazabi said:

Almost had a heart attack myself! Was just passing through Badlands on my way to Searing Gorge when NPCscan goes off.

There he was, all by his lonesome. Needless to say I instantly abandoned my old trusty King Bangalash and tamed BT. <3

Never really got to see if he was being camped.

Wow, congratulations!! Level him up real good. :D

If you need locations to level him up, my pets tutorial provides some recommendations. You can find a link to it in the Hunter Macros & Tips thread.

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1 minute ago, Raziya said:

Wow, congratulations!! Level him up real good. :D

If you need locations to level him up, my pets tutorial provides some recommendations. You can find a link to it in the Hunter Macros & Tips thread.

Thanks! Already did.

Spent an afternoon leveling him with poor results and then decided to keep him stabled for the time being as I'm more interested in reaching 60 as soon as possible. :D

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6 hours ago, Raziya said:

I've never heard that about him, although I can imagine he's fair for prot warriors or some high-armor class. What's so good in particular about him for PvP?

He crits any class for 500 and that's not as BM.  His damage output is too good to ignore, especially when most good casters will find a way to circumvent the pushback from BT.

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21 minutes ago, Myllz said:

He crits any class for 500 and that's not as BM.  His damage output is too good to ignore, especially when most good casters will find a way to circumvent the pushback from BT.

Damn. That's pretty incredible, if that's true. I've never had the chance to use him pre-nerf, myself.

5 hours ago, Zazabi said:

Thanks! Already did.

Spent an afternoon leveling him with poor results and then decided to keep him stabled for the time being as I'm more interested in reaching 60 as soon as possible. :D

You could grind mobs to level yourself and your pet up simultaneously! :O

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11 minutes ago, Raziya said:

Damn. That's pretty incredible, if that's true. I've never had the chance to use him pre-nerf, myself.

You could grind mobs to level yourself and your pet up simultaneously! :O

From a random fight in AB right now.  That's on a rogue.

Lupos.png

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24 minutes ago, Myllz said:

From a random fight in AB right now.  That's on a rogue.

Lupos.png

Hah! That's beautiful. I had no idea it was THAT wonderfully powerful. Pity he gets nerfed...

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Lupos>BT. after the nerf it should only be WS.cats are only useful at lvl 19 pvp as every class get a shield/absorb/anti-pushback mechanic past lvl 20

otherwise you should always be using a wind serpent. putting warriors in combat 40yd away. check. 

BT does not have the time on target a serpent has. also since its pure physical damage it is completely nullified by mana shield which mages learn at lvl 20. unless you have a friendly priest following you and dispelling the mana shield, you should always go with wind serpent because it actually bypasses it and causes pushback/damage

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So, let's break this down.

 

What makes Broken Tooth so desirable over other Pets?
1.00 attack speed offers greatest synergy with Frenzy talent, which is 26-30 talent points deep into Beast Mastery, and the greatest degree of pushback on spellcasters.

Is Broken Tooth the only Pet in the game with a 1.00 attack speed?
NO.  The Bloodseeker Bat and the Frenzied Bloodseeker Bat found in Zul'Gurub also have a 1.00 attack speed too.

What can Cats do that Bats can't?
Cats can Claw and Prowl.  Claw is a Focus Dump skill that will drain Focus as fast as it can be recovered, leaving your Cat with low amounts of Focus at nearly all times.  Bestial Discipline in the Beast Mastery tree will increase the rate at which Claw will be used on autocast.

What can Bats do that Cats can't?
Screech. Bats don't have a Focus Dump skill and will thus always have plenty of Focus available to them since their Focus Recovery will always exceed their Focus Costs over time due to cooldowns, so Bestial Discipline in the Beast Mastery tree is essentially wasted on Bats.

What's the difference in Diet for Cats and Bats?
Fish and Meat for Cats ... Fruit and Fungus for Bats.

 

In PvP, fast kills are often given the highest priority so putting Claw on Broken Tooth is the way to generate the greatest damage in the shortest amount of time while ALSO causing the highest amount of spellcasting pushback possible.  This then explains why Broken Tooth is so highly prized for PvP, while also being particularly good for PvE as well, especially for Beast Masters.  Broken Tooth is an "all in" on Offense styled Pet that is just about completely optimized for PvP.  Extra bonus points for having Broken Tooth Prowl for a Night Elf Hunter using Shadowmeld so as to ambush from stealth.

The two Bloodseeker Bats from Zul'Gurub can Screech, which offers a significant Attack Power debuff, making these Pets a bit more "defensive" in nature than Broken Tooth's "all in" on offense capabilities.  The Screech debuff is MUCH more effective against NPCs than it is against PCs, due to the way that the Attack Power calculations differ greatly for NPCs and PCs.  This difference makes the Bloodseeker Bat types better in PvE than in PvP relative to the performance profile of Broken Tooth.

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1 hour ago, Roxanne Flowers said:

...putting Claw on Broken Tooth is the way to generate the greatest damage in the shortest amount of time...

I'm pretty sure GCD of pets is 1.5s and the attack speed refers only to their auto attack.

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Yes, the auto attack speed is 1.00 and the global cooldown of Pet Skills is 1.5 seconds (assuming the Pet casts a Skill that invokes a global cooldown on the Pet).  This means that a Tamed Broken Tooth can attack every 1.0 second on auto while ALSO casting Claw every ~1.5-2 seconds or so in addition.  Bestial Discipline ought to increase Focus Recovery per tick to exceed the cost of using Claw, meaning (slightly) net positive recovery while using Claw every 2 seconds ... all while auto attacking every 1.0 seconds (until Frenzy procs, at which point Broken Tooth attacks even faster).

Net result is a LOT of dice rolling in extremely rapid succession, all of which is doing pushback on spellcasting.

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