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killerduki

Gyrofreeze Ice Reflector (how it should work)

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I see so many complains on how it used to work in Nostalrius , beside the fact their advertisement shown opposite , in reality it was working incorrect even in Nostalrius.

Posting Nostalrius Video is not Valid Source.

 

I personally don't like new Bugtracker because i can't post proper comments using proper form.

 

Here is what i will give as analyze:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20061215122310/http://www.thottbot.com/?i=37247

 

15 december 2006 Dates written in Text are from before 2006

 

by daego, 1.3 years ago (which mean this is since October 2005)

This doesn't work with AOE spells (so no frost nova, blizzards, etc). This only reflects directed spells.

 

 

by fauxhammer, 1.2 years ago (which mean november 2005)

 

And to answer questions...

This is how these work. Any spell that is a single target spell hitting you will bounce back to the caster. That means frostbolt, frost shock, Icy enchants, and hunter's freezing traps (for example).

Anything that is a frost AoE will not bounce back, but you will be immune. This means frost nova, Cone of Cold, Blizzard, etc. So if a mage frost novas while i have this active, I will be immune, but it won't root the mage. However, if he frostbolts me, it will bounce off of me, hit him, damage him, and snare him.

 

by Andreander, 3.1 months ago (september 2006 Patch 1.12).

 

if you bother to read all the replies, its said multiple times that it dosnt reflect AoE spells...

 

 

 

I believe there is problem in the server with this Item and there should be fix according to the Thottbot comments from 2005/6 explained , but not in the way of how it used to work in Nostalrius.

 

I Hope Developers will read this message.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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And to add one more thing regarding Reflection :

 

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.11.0
 

 

Patch 1.11.0

 

Reflection: Effects which cause reflection will no longer reflect triggered effects separately from their base effects (e.g. Impact, Improved Shadow Bolt, Aftermath, etc.)

 

 

Spells should not trigger their Talented Procs such as Ignite , Stun from Mage etc (for Fire Reflection) or from Frost similar behavior.

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It should reflect.

 

If you used reflector while frost bolt is flying it's doesn't reflect it.

 

Any spell that is a single target spell hitting you will bounce back to the caster. That means frostbolt, frost shock, Icy enchants, and hunter's freezing traps (for example).

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It will bounce if you used reflector before end of frost bolt cast, anyway it's worked on valk as must.

 

It doesn't say before or after the end of cast , it say it will bounce when activated.

 

Valkyrie or other private server examples are invalid.

 

This is description written by Retail back in 2005/6 .

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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Just check pvp moovies

Link please.

 

Make sure 2005/6 or maximum 2007.

 

Higher than 2007 is not Valid.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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You are Correct it should affect only Before Cast .

 

Btw you should be Immune on Frost/Fire (depend on the Trinket/Reflector) when this Effect start (Before Cast) .

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20070509151657/http://www.thottbot.com/i18638

May 9 2007

 

by aderthad, 11.2 months ago (Which mean he wrote this at June 2006)

She is immune to fire

 

 
/Kind regards Killerduki
Edited by killerduki

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And to add one more thing regarding Reflection :

 

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.11.0

 

Spells should not trigger their Talented Procs such as Ignite , Stun from Mage etc (for Fire Reflection) or from Frost similar behavior.

 

Wait wait wait wait wait waaaaaaait, please.

 

Let's check that again. The Patch Notes refer specifically to "Triggered Effects" such as Stuns. NOT Talented Procs such as Ignite. That's an entirely different thing. Also,  Snares/Frost effects 100% reflect, since they are not Procs at all. The spell reflects and if it isn't resisted, it snares.

 

Please watch at 4:25 of Laintime 2006: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rGdz3PYuwo

 

Reflects Frostbolt, with snare - seen briefly at 4:30 before he puts on Hamstring

 

Effects were possibly being reflected while the spell itself was resisted, resulting in an Impact stun being reflected while the spell itself not landing. This change caused effects to not be separated from their spells while reflected. Note the wording stating that the 

 

Again, to restate - the Patch Notes say that the mechanics will no longer reflect Triggered Effects separately from their base effects - meaning that going forward from that patch they are now bound together and not separately reflected (previously resulting in the possibility of Reflecting a Mindblast, having it Resist, but having Blackout Stun proc -- or any Trigger/Proc based spell effect. After that patch, the spell and the triggered effect remain together in the reflect. The wording is a bit vague, and until you get to the word "separately" you're under the impression that triggered effects are entirely off the table, which is the opposite of the outcome of the patch.

Edited by Xom

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Let's check that again. The Patch Notes refer specifically to "Triggered Effects" such as Stuns. NOT Talented Procs such as Ignite.

 

 

Stuns from Mage is "Talented" procs same as Ignite .

 

Please watch at 4:25 of Laintime 2006: 

 

Reflects Frostbolt, with snare - seen briefly at 4:30 before he puts on Hamstring

 

 

The Video shown was the effect from the "Spell" but not from "Talents" .

 

 

After that patch, the spell and the triggered effect remain together in the reflect. The wording is a bit vague, and until you get to the word "separately" you're under the impression that triggered effects are entirely off the table, which is the opposite of the outcome of the patch.

 

 

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.11.0

 

Reflection: Effects which cause reflection will no longer reflect triggered effects separately from their base effects (e.g. Impact, Improved Shadow Bolt, Aftermath, etc.)

 

 

Patch is clear , no separate effects such as  Improved Shadow Bolts , Ignites ,  Stuns ,  Blackout.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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Stuns from Mage is "Talented" procs same as Ignite .

 

 

The Video shown was the effect from the "Spell" but not from "Talents" .

 

 

 

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Patch_1.11.0

 

 

Patch is clear , no separate effects such as  Improved Shadow Bolts , Ignites ,  Stuns ,  Blackout.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

 

I am attempting to address a couple things. I first thought above that you were saying snares from Frostbolts wouldn't reflect but I think you were mentionting Frost reflection. I wanted to post a video first to be sure that was cleared up that snares are reflected.

 

Mostly though  - the patch does not say anything about "separate effects" as you put it; and this is an important distinction. It says it will no longer reflect proc effects separate from the base spell. This results in having all reflected spells/effects bound together instead of having a separate chance to land the proc/spell.

 

It is important to notice their wording in specifics. Above you use the term "Talented procs" but that lumps a heap of things in there that shouldn't be. The patch says "triggered effects" or procs which have a chance to happen, not things which are Talented. They never use the word Talent; they're speaking about procs - a very different thing from something like Ignite or Shadow Weaving which are Talents and become baseline in the spell when cast.

 

The patch notes never mention "separate effects" nor "talented..." anything - they are talking about procs. Please be wary of the wording, as it can be misconstrued and other effects are lumped into the proc category.

 

I remember many times having my Fire spells reflected at me and having the resulting Ignite from a crit occur - having a Pyroblast crit you and burn you to death doesn't fade from your memory. But I realize you can't really just take my word for it.

 

I want to make clear that Ignite is absolutely different from a Triggered Proc (their wording) - it happens to all targets which are crit by a Fire Mage. It's akin to Shadow Weaving for Priests, in that if the spell lands (or crits for FMage) the resulting Talented effect is applied. Please be clear: they are talking about Triggered Procs - NOT Talented Everything.

 

Ignite and Shadow Weaving are Talents which are not "triggered procs", they are Talents which give an effect to a spell which wasn't there initially. As we know, Procs are Impact/Blackout type things with a chance to occur.

 

It is an important distinction to note the wording in the patch notes, as they do not say "reflection will no longer reflect triggered effects" quite the contrary:

 

: Effects which cause reflection will no longer reflect triggered effects separately from their base effects (e.g. Impact, Improved Shadow Bolt, Aftermath, etc.)

 

Again, the key way to look at this is the placement of the words "no longer" and  "separately from" since they speak to what will no longer be the case (the fact that they used to be reflected separately with two chances to resist, and will now be combined into once chance on reflection). 

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base spell

 

 

Base spell mean "base effect" , Improved effects as Patch said won't apply.

 

Anyway i will agree 100% with you , only if you bring me evidence from 2005/6/7 .

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

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It isn't just the reflectors. Many Engineering things didn't work right on Nost, despite them claiming otherwise in their promotions. The MC cap rarely ever worked, when on retail, it worked almost every cast, even on players over your level, as if it didn't take player levels into account. So it was worthless on Nost. The combat chicken by contrast was OP because it literally stayed out forever, having an infinite duration until killed. They couldn't even script its duration. With the Death Ray, it didn't do hardly any damage on Nost, making it mostly worthless unless it dinged a crit. On retail, it did far more, making it a great weapon. The cables must have had a lower percentage than normal, because they'd sometimes work, but not as often as they did back on retail. It's as if they scripted it properly, but didn't put in the correct success percentages. You could literally use them a dozen times on Nost and never see a revive. On retail, it'd be 1 in 5.

 

Some things they did seem to script right, such as the parachute, which didn't have a fail chance by design, and the dragon gun, which would often CC/burn you. Using the teleporters, I'd sometimes get dropped from the sky or debuffed. I used all 3 dragons on Nost, and all 3 felt useless, but they were useless back on retail. With dual engineers, I used pretty much everything. Both of the rocket boots seemed to work fine. I mainly used the gnomish ones on my engineers, then stacked the goblin ones on my next alt, who burned them regularly to run faster in his lower levels. I'd tend to get a few uses out of each before they exploded. Sometimes they'd explode on the first use, other times they'd get up to 10 shots. It was a big range. On some explosions, I got back the fused wiring, which is where most of their cost goes, so not every explosion was a full loss.

Edited by Drain

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I also noticed the Death Ray was very weak compared to how I remember it on retail. I remember there being a much higher baseline damage amount for when you take more damage. Like if you fired it off and saw yourself taking more than usual damage, you knew that shot was going to be pretty good - but on Nost it seemed every single time was a wet noodle regardless of how much health it drained from you. It was barely worth the trinket slot, where it used to be something which could turn a close-fought battle with an Elite mob or higher level player into your favor.

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Reflectors should make u immune to all things in that school (ex: immune to nova and frost armor slow) and only projected targeted spells or traps actually 'reflect' back. Also should not work if used mid air (like on feenix).

 

I hope all these engineering items can be fixed before Nost launch :)

Edited by Zetox

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Right, also it's must doesn't work vs flying things, only if reflector was used while bolt casting. 

This is wrong, watch vurtne and you'll see

Edited by Jayseric

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Could you post a video? I've watched vurtne 1 and 2 specifically hunting for those reflect moment but every time he activated it either before or like 0.1 sec before cast.

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