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killerduki

Gyrofreeze Ice Reflector (how it should work)

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The question is, do they work like this on here?

no. they dont make you immune .... at least the last time i played 

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How it currently works on Nost PvP:

- You will not be immune to AoE spells. Example: you use frost reflector, mage casts frost nova, you will be novaed instead of being immune to it.

- You will only reflect targeted spells cast on you after you used the reflector. Example: Wlock casts Death Coil, you use shadow reflector before it lands on you, you will get afflicted by Death Coil.

- Reflecting a freezing trap does not freeze the hunter sometimes (and no resists shenanigans included).

How it should work:

- Immunity to AoE spells of the relevant school of magic for the duration of the reflector buff.

- Targeted and "flying" spell casts on you after you used reflector should be reflected if they haven't landed yet.

The game is supposed to do the resistance/immunity/etc. check once a spell lands on a target and not while it is being cast. This is not obvious for everyone but please keep in mind a spell be interrupted/canceled during its casting time and vanished when connecting to a target. Also its result will be affected by the casters' stats before the spell actually lands. For instance using a trinket like spellpower ZHC when a dmg spell (direct or DoT) is flying should still improve the damage it will deal when connecting to its target.

There is a way bigger issue in that regard on the server. Spell casting and how it interacts with immunity and resistance effects is completely fucked up. A mob casting an AoE fear will sometimes fear a warrior even though he used Berserker Rage during that cast time. 

It looks pretty close to this previous issue (now solved) when it was possible to finish and apply a fear, a polymorph, etc. cast even though you get stunned/cced before its end. Or when a paladin would get seduced by a wlock succubus even though he's bubbled.

 

Edited by Slicy

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Well, this is actually proving my 2nd point, not the 1st one.

Gnome casts Fireball. Undead trinkets the poly when Fireball cast is ending. Undead casts Fire Reflector at the same time Fireball is landing (watch closely, he gains the reflector buff bit after the casts ended and when Fireball is flying*). Fireball gets reflected (gnome even gets the baseline fireball debuff). 

At exactly 11:22, he pressed Fire Reflector, doesn't have the reflection buff yet and the other mage fireball cast IS ENDED (just spam read/stop on youtube button and check the cast bar + undead buffs every time you paused).

At 11:23, he gains the reflection buff and the fireball is flying towards him. The fireball is then reflected upon connecting with undead.

Different case but there are also example of reflection with the buff being up before the end of a cast at 16:43 (Human casts Frostbolt, Undead gains Frost Reflector, Frostbolt flies and gets reflected) and 18:36 (Gnome casts Fireball, Undead trinkets poly, gains reflection buff few miliseconds before cast ends and reflects it upon landing). 

18:36 also showcases how debuffs (from talents, not baseline like fireball dot and frostbolt slow which are reflected*) linked to reflected spells should work. Undead reflects the 2 fire spells toss at him but he does get afflicted by Ignite even though reflection buff is still up. *See 19:32, same example of reflection before casts end.

19:10 is yet another proof of reflection of targeted spell, but this time for one without any travel time. He gains reflection buff at the same time the fear cast is done. There is barely 0.2 / 0.1 sec left on fear cast bar when he activates Shadow Reflector. Yet, by the time his character actually gains the buff (just like the 11:22-23 example), the cast has ended.

3:40 in the 2006 Laintime video also proves how reflection should work for spells whose cast is already finished. He gains Frost Reflector few miliseconds after the spell goes off the mage hands and reflects it.

This behavior matches the idea of the resist/immune/relect/etc. check should be done once whatever cast connects to a target. There is a reason why you are able to resist or reflect a hunter's freezing trap by using Frost Reflector and walking on the trap. The trap cast happened way before you gained the reflection buff, yet you will still reflect it. See Grim - Path of Blood at 8:28 for instance.

 

TLDR

Until proven otherwise (don't bother with "it worked like this on peenix" please, it's worthless) with retail vanilla videos, you can safely assume the reflection should work

- for targeted spells, even if reflection buff is gained during the spell travel/flying time to its target,

- for non targeted spells such as traps ;

but will only make you immune to AoE effects (howl of terror, frost nova, cone of cold, etc).

 

Edited by Slicy

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Adding a screenshot showing how the reflection mechanic behaves currently on the server and why the "no reflection if spell is already flying" doesn't make any sense according a combat log chain of events :

uDXWmL5.jpg

(hi Goth :p)

Will add a screenshot displaying the AoE immunity not working properly soon(tm).

 

Long term memory never fails you. Please find below a perfect video proof that reflection should work with flying spells. Video is from retail vanilla, server Archimonde EU (FR), by the most famous french pom pyro mage, Gegon from <Ascendance> :

The Last Ovski Part 2, at 7:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVthFqt_UsE

7:37 Fierce cow in sight. Bald gnome press IWIN macro (including Presence of Mind - next spell cast is instant).

7:39 Bald gnome press Fireball + Fireblast buttons. Fat cow uses Fire Reflector (notice how the fiery animation of the reflector has not even ended when the Fireball connects with him). Fat cow reflects both the Fireball and the Fireblast.

- "Renvoie" in white means "reflect"

7:40-41 Bald gnome gets damaged from reflected Fireball & Fireblast.

- In combat log, "Votre Boule de feu est renvoyé par Mav" > "Your Fireball is reflected by Mav"

- In combat log, "Votre Trait de feu est renvoyé par Mav" > "Your Fireblast is reflected by Mav"

7:42 Bald gnome dies (but they will rule Azeroth soon).

7:50 Fat cow BMs. 

 

 

 

Edited by Slicy

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10 hours ago, Slicy said:

Adding a screenshot showing how the reflection mechanic behaves currently on the server and why the "no reflection if spell is already flying" doesn't make any sense according a combat log chain of events :

uDXWmL5.jpg

(hi Goth :p)

Will add a screenshot displaying the AoE immunity not working properly soon(tm).

 

Long term memory never fails you. Please find below a perfect video proof that reflection should work with flying spells. Video is from retail vanilla, server Archimonde EU (FR), by the most famous french pom pyro mage, Gegon from <Ascendance> :

The Last Ovski Part 2, at 7:35

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVthFqt_UsE

7:37 Fierce cow in sight. Bald gnome press IWIN macro (including Presence of Mind - next spell cast is instant).

7:39 Bald gnome press Fireball + Fireblast buttons. Fat cow uses Fire Reflector (notice how the fiery animation of the reflector has not even ended when the Fireball connects with him). Fat cow reflects both the Fireball and the Fireblast.

- "Renvoie" in white means "reflect"

7:40-41 Bald gnome gets damaged from reflected Fireball & Fireblast.

- In combat log, "Votre Boule de feu est renvoyé par Mav" > "Your Fireball is reflected by Mav"

- In combat log, "Votre Trait de feu est renvoyé par Mav" > "Your Fireblast is reflected by Mav"

7:42 Bald gnome dies (but they will rule Azeroth soon).

7:50 Fat cow BMs. 

 

 

 

Bro , i know what you mean but sadly blizzlike engineering mechanics really work like that

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Have the fire/shadow/ice reflectors been removed? 

I went to the vendor in everlook that should sell the ice reflector and is not there.

Anyone know if they have been removed or where they are sold/drop?

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