AoE Threat Generation

[Shaylin 6]

So, something I never knew tanking as a prot warrior in retail, is  that in order to increase your AoE threat on multiple targets, since we do not have that many AoE taunt abilities, is to use Battle Shout.

 

Battle Shout increases AoE Threat by 55 per person it hits, so if you multiple melee in your group, and multiple mobs coming at you, Battle Shout will increase your threat, to keep it on you instead of everyone else.

Demo Shout increases by 43 per mob demo'd

 

I'll try to find the article again where I read that, but I found it the other day and that it was a private server only deal, but it was on wow wiki or something to that affect.

 

Below is the list of threat values for the important warrior moves in vanilla.

Sunder: 260
Revenge: 315 (if the revenge stun procs, adds 25 more threat value)
Shield Bash: 180 (if interrupted a cast, adds 50 more threat value)
Shield Slam: 307 (increases with Block Value)
Shield Block: 0,5,10 (if each successful block generates 1 rage from talents, each rage point will generate 5 threat)
Thunder Clap: 130 (not usable in Defensive Stance, has a 0.8% threat modifier)
Demo/Battle Shout: 43/55 (43 applied to each mob for demo, 55 multiplied by each party member buffed for battle)
Cleave: 130 (this is split equally if hitting two mobs, so each one gets 65)
Heroic Strike: 196

Edited November 18, 2016 by Shaylin

[Nocturn 4]

Correct. After a bow/gun pull, Bloodrage as this will increase your threat as well, then pop BS while you're near your party and this will effectively be the equivalent of a sunder on each mob. (assuming proper scripting, this has been an issue on every private server). 

[Shaylin 6]

will this increase threat on all mobs pulled or just the one that is hit with the gun? Any other helpful hints for ape threat generation and keeping mobs stuck to me?

[Undertanker 88]

The threat will split to all mobs.

[Nocturn 4]

If you're curious on aoe tanking or full rotations to hold threat on multiple mobs let me know

[killerduki 54]

Demo/Battle Shout: 43/55 (43 applied to each mob for demo, 55 multiplied by each party member buffed for battle)

 

 

Keep in mind that Threats gained from Battle Shout (5 people affected maximum) should spread among mobs either , not a good Shout for AoE unless it is bugged

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited November 20, 2016 by killerduki

[Shaylin 6]

If you're curious on aoe tanking or full rotations to hold threat on multiple mobs let me know

Yes, please, would love to learn more about tanking in vanilla. Did most of my tanking TBC and later

Keep in mind that Threats gained from Battle Shout (5 people affected maximum) should spread among mobs either , not a good Shout for AoE unless it is bugged

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Duki, yeah I figure as much, but the only way I have been able to hold aoe threat in say VC when running it was to spam BShout/Demo Shout to keep the mobs on me. But this is also on Kronos, so.. who knows lol

[gotmilk0112 10]

Does Battle Shout grant threat, even if the party members already have the buff active?

 

Basically, can I just sit there spamming Battle Shout and it will keep generating threat?

[Undertanker 88]

Does Battle Shout grant threat, even if the party members already have the buff active?

 

Basically, can I just sit there spamming Battle Shout and it will keep generating threat?

 

Depending on server scripting, yes.     On Nost I faired better spamming demo shout in BWL Suppression room.   On Kronos I faired better spamming Battle Shout with my group in range of me, would only demo for the debuff.

[Shaylin 6]

Depending on server scripting, yes.     On Nost I faired better spamming demo shout in BWL Suppression room.   On Kronos I faired better spamming Battle Shout with my group in range of me, would only demo for the debuff.

I agree on Kronos I get better threat generation with pull, blood rage, then Battle Shout when in range of my party. Didn't get a chance to play Nost, but since its Nost server scripting/core, I would assume Demo would give you better rage.

[Nocturn 4]

Seems like rage will be the same as it was on Nost. In which case holding threat will be pretty easy. Rage for days... 

 

If it were corrected to proper blizz like values then here's a couple basic tips for holding threat on multiple mobs:

 

The spec: http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#LVzLZVZEizoeMzVo

 

This can be used to dungeon and raid tank, even MT but you may want to put a point or 2 into improved shield wall if you were MT. But only the MT needs to change and think about this. It is the best overall rounded spec (in my opinion, its fine if you disagree). I don't put any points into imp revenge and i'll go on to explain why.

 

Impale spec is very different and gear dependent; wont get into that. Also a MT spec  

 

 

1. Charge Pull

• Use a 2H weapon (Yes a 2 hander) pop Berserker Rage-->Battle Stance->Charge-->Berserker Stance (switch to this immediately right after you hit charge, [this will generate roughly 23 rage when your first attack hits] all the mobs, most likely 3 or more will hit you and you'l now have more than the 25 rage needed for)->WW-->Defensive Stance (here you want a macro to quickly equip your 1h+shield)->Taunt initial kill target (skull)->tab and revenge/sunder->come around to skull (who should still be on you) Taunt again or Mocking blow.
• Using a 2hander with WW will cause more damage and thus generate more threat (the more hit and crit you have and the better the 2h the better this works)
• I don't put points into imp revenge because i think all the points put into TM and improved charge are critical and more important to get that burst damage and initial threat at the very start of a pull
• Using the WW method you will have enough initial aggro dps can go all out and for those few seconds you wont loose aggro.
• By popping taunt on the first target instead of using revenge or sunder, you guarantee that target is on you for at least 3 seconds and can use your rage and abilities to hold aggro on the other mobs. By the time you come around to the first target it should be close to dead anyways and you can either taunt it again or throw a shield slam/ revenge/mocking (by this point with all those mobs hitting you you'll have a lot of rage) or just ignore it, dps can finish it off.
• Yes imp revenge gives a little more threat but if you stun the mob on your first hit you're also loosing out on inc damage/rage to hold more threat on other mobs and again with the WW method, you'll gain more threat anyways.
• You'll take some extra damage but not so much that your healer can't cope and not so much that he'll have to stop and mana up after every other pull.
• Easier for the dps to AOE as well and go all out, killing things faster and shortening the run.

2. Ranged Pull

• Berserker Rage-->Defensive Stance->Shoot->Bloodrage->Battle Shout (be near your group)->Demo Shout right when mobs hit you->Taunt first target->tab and Revenge/sunder->Come back to first target and Revenge/Shield Slam/Taunt or leave for dps->Continue rotation on the other mobs.
• There may be more difficult mob encounters, for example, the mobs in the Emperor Room in BRD where the mobs hit hard and are quick to loose aggro while trapping you in place. It'l just take practice, make use of mocking blow as often as you can too (it only costs 10 rage and with the spec provided you'll keep 20 and can swap right back and have rage to hit the next mob)
• Also intercept for the ranged mobs hitting you or the group or running away.
• Taunt as often as you can and switch targets. This really helps and is underutilized by a lot of tanks who only use it when they LOOSE aggro.

Lastly be vocal and tell your group to use appropriate CC if and when needed and pull your targets away from the CC'd targets and away from you casters.

[Jabona 0]

Interesting read.  Thanks for the info!

[Calibur 0]

I had a thought - if the players in your group that didnt need BS kept removing and then it was reapplied, would this generate more threat than just laying an new one on top of the exsisting.

 

PS - great thread BTW..

Edited December 9, 2016 by Calibur

[Metabolomics 2]

Great info - thanks Lurker. Just out of interest - what are you hot keying your stances too? Or is everything part of a macro? 

[northborn 1]

Battle Shout should give you continuous threat, even when it is already applied. On retail vanilla, we used a tank who spammed Battle Shout to keep aggro on all the mobs in the Nefarian fight in BWL. Note that I am not sure this is how it works on this server.

[gotmilk0112 10]

Yeah, just like Sunder, it still gives threat even if the target already has the debuff applied, or in this case, the buff applied. If your group is nearby, you can just spam battle shout and it'll keep generating more and more threat on the mobs.

 

That's what I'd do when фекал got crazy in Deadmines and 5+ mobs pulled. Worked quite well.

Edited December 11, 2016 by gotmilk0112

[Tanked 2]

Yes, on retail or if scripted correctly, Battle Shout is a very effective tool for generating AOE threat, but from my personal experience, on Nost they changed it as if it was like a future patch when it was nerfed. I had tested it many times there and was not working properly as it should in 1.12. and even reported it in their bug tracker with no progress. Hopefully it will function correctly here, as it is a huge help.

 

I will check the bug tracker here to see if there is an issue, otherwise I will be on tomorrow when the realms are ready to go. Still fighting this 500 internal server error trying to get my characters transferred at the moment.

 

EDIT: The old bug tracker has a report of it not generating threat at all, which I am hoping this is from an old core. I will test it as soon as possible.

 

Just for reference: (http://vanilla-wow.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_Shout)

 

Threat generation

Before Patch 2.0.1, Battle Shout generated 55 threat for every party member who received the buff. This made it better than Demoralizing Shout for gathering groups of mobs for AoE. It was also used frequently in Phase 1 of the Nefarian fight in BWL.

However, as of patch 2.0.1, Battle Shout has been 'fixed'. It now generates about 50 threat total^{[citation needed]}, no matter how many party members got the buff. The old days of Battle Shout tanking are quite over.

The threat generated is not restricted by range (unlike Demoralizing Shout), and is divided among all the mobs that have the warrior on their hate list.

Edited December 17, 2016 by Tanked

[killerduki 54]

Vanilla-wow.wiki is edited and completely wrong on everything , even the dates says that was some people writing there from private servers.

 

Kenco's threat Guide is from 2006 , Battle Shout should divide it's generated threats to all enemy;s in hate list , this make it completely useless aoe threat generator.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Tanked 2]

Vanilla-wow.wiki is edited and completely wrong on everything , even the dates says that was some people writing there from private servers.

 

Kenco's threat Guide is from 2006 , Battle Shout should divide it's generated threats to all enemy;s in hate list , this make it completely useless aoe threat generator.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

I played a Prot Warrior back on classic wow, on the retail servers. Prior to patch 2.0.1 Battle Shout WAS a beast for AOE threat generation. You can ask any warrior that played back then. Regardless of what any website says. From my own experience on retail (during classic/vanilla times) Battle Shout was very useful until it was nerfed in 2.0.1, On Nost (before Elysium) it did not work correctly and barely generated any threat if any, also on the old bug tracker here there is a report of it not working correctly.

 

And regardless of numbers or how it was divided, it should generate more threat than spamming Demo Shout. Your statement saying Battle Shout is a useless AOE threat generator tells me you DEFINITELY did not play a prot warrior on the live servers back then.

[gotmilk0112 10]

And regardless of numbers or how it was divided, it should generate more threat than spamming Demo Shout. Your statement saying Battle Shout is a useless AOE threat generator tells me you DEFINITELY did not play a prot warrior on the live servers back then.

The guy's delusional. Claims that prot paladins should be main tanks and that Ret is good DPS.

 

He also is dead set on the idea that Int is the best stat for Shadow Priests, so it's no surprise that he's spewing blatantly incorrect info for other classes as well.

Edited December 17, 2016 by gotmilk0112

[killerduki 54]

The guy's delusional. Claims that prot paladins should be main tanks and that Ret is good DPS.

 

And you are what? Biggest internet retard hero?

 

Let see what happens now with all that Rage nerf, enjoy in your AoE Warrior Tanking.

 

Back to the Topic and Demo Shout , it is about time to end this фекал :

 

Kenco's Threat Guide

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20061023002703/http://evilempireguild.org/guides/kenco2.php

 

October 23 2006

 

 

October 23 2006

 

October 23 2006

 

Battle Shout generates 55 threat for each player that is buffed; up to 5 people in your party and their pets, as long as they are on the relevant mob's threat list. For example if you buff a player that is out of combat, no threat is generated. Therefore in a tightly packed group, Battle Shout can rival Sunder Armor for threat, but as a buff the threat is split amongst all the mobs that are aware of you.

 

 

October 23 2006

 

October 23 2006

 

October 23 2006

 

October 23 2006

 

October 23 2006

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Asherdoom 5]

my personal suggestion:

1) IF pull is aoe but safe (e.r. you dont risk to pull a whole instance) start in battle stance. Charge>thunderclap>switch to defensive (i got them binded in mouse wheel up and down for easier usage) >demo shout+battle shout. this should solve your aoe problem.

2) IF IN UNDEAD AREA (stratholme for example) use HOLY WATER to help you aoe tanking

3) remember if you start in battle stance your threat multiplier is 0.8 if i recall correctly it means you must act quickly as most dps will aoe to see big numbers on screen (hi mages/locks lol) so practice with non elite mobs outside instances

 

with this method i never had any threat prob in aoe in other servers

[Tanked 2]

Yes, unfortunately alot of warriors do not know to stance dance. Tanking is extremely easy if you have a decent group and know how to use the appropriate skills.

 

As far as killerduki, nobody is denying the threat is divided amongst the mobs, but learn basic math bud. 55 PER PARTY MEMBER BUFFED, then split that amongst the mobs. SO, if you are tightly packed enough/get all five members (not even counting pets) buffed that is 275.

 

Now take that 275 and you can for example say we have even 6 mobs on you. That's 45.83 threat per mob. even if rounded down to 45, that is still more than the 43 per mob from Demo Shout. The other benefit is Battle Shout doesn't have a range like Demo Shout does.

 

So with 6 or less mobs, Battle Shout clearly outweighs spamming Demo Shout, and the less the better, so on 3 mobs with 5 party members buffed it would put 91.6 threat on each mob.

 

Anyways I am rambling, @Killerduki, you should really not post about things where you cannot even do basic math.

 

@OP the only thing now is to see if Battle Shout works properly here. I was able to finally log on my warrior, but not long enough for any testing. I will report back later today whether it is bugged or not.

[Tanked 2]

UPDATE: I have been able to test this in game today. Battle Shout unfortunately is bugged and not producing any threat generation at all.

 

In addition, trying to add a bug to the tracker is giving a 500 internal server error, so I have temporarily posted it in the help and support section of the forums. Please feel free to comment there as to bring attention to this major bug for warriors

 

https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=25797

[Whiskyjack666 2]

I will have to try spamming demo/BS.. i did use this on Nef for a tactic back in the day... tab sunder is what i did most of the time for AoE.