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cryofsorrow

PvE Shadow Priest Basics

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According to my spreadsheet, with bis BWL gear equipped, 5/5 imp MB, and setting fight length to 90 sec, 1% crit is worth 2.44 spell damage. Using maximum mana consumables you would be oom shortly after the boss dies (100 sec), meaning you'd be waiting for consumable cooldowns for around 30 sec if the fight went longer. Your encounter DPS would drop by approximately 120-150 (about 15% loss) if you get into this situation of regularly waiting for mana cooldowns. 5/5 Imp MB is not worth taking when your average fight length is over 90 sec. 0/5 is the better choice for AQ/Naxx.

 

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59 minutes ago, Maxvla said:

According to my spreadsheet, with bis BWL gear equipped, 5/5 imp MB, and setting fight length to 90 sec, 1% crit is worth 2.44 spell damage. Using maximum mana consumables you would be oom shortly after the boss dies (100 sec), meaning you'd be waiting for consumable cooldowns for around 30 sec if the fight went longer. Your encounter DPS would drop by approximately 120-150 (about 15% loss) if you get into this situation of regularly waiting for mana cooldowns. 5/5 Imp MB is not worth taking when your average fight length is over 90 sec. 0/5 is the better choice for AQ/Naxx.

 

Do you mind sharing your spreadsheet? 

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It is a spreadsheet made by another, that I have expanded. I need to do some housekeeping on it before posting, but I will try to do so tonight.

While starting said clean up I noticed that improved Mind Blast was said to not be effective in the calculations, so what I said before would be higher dps, but run OOM even faster. I'd revise the 90 sec down to perhaps 60-75 sec if running 5/5 imp mindblast.

Also, while messing about, I noticed a naked unbuffed, priest, with boss debuffs active (weaving/curse), 1% crit is worth about 1.3 damage. So you can see it scales extremely poorly 1.3 to 2.44 (naked vs ~800 dmg).

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Here is the spreadsheet. Deathlace did the core work and layout. I populated most of the gear and added missing enchants/buffs.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F1IVqSt1MEJ9yjZ9rn1aKGIWNkJiA_CNmn6fLUpakb4/edit?usp=sharing

You can make a copy for yourself, and freely adjust the inputs. It is not perfect, but I haven't found any conflicts with expectations of gear performance (except where noted examples could occur). The spreadsheet, of course, exists in a vacuum where there is no ping/input lag/etc. Achieving 90-95% of what it shows should be possible on a Patchwerk/Ebonroc style fight.

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3 hours ago, Maxvla said:

Here is the spreadsheet. Deathlace did the core work and layout. I populated most of the gear and added missing enchants/buffs.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F1IVqSt1MEJ9yjZ9rn1aKGIWNkJiA_CNmn6fLUpakb4/edit?usp=sharing

You can make a copy for yourself, and freely adjust the inputs. It is not perfect, but I haven't found any conflicts with expectations of gear performance (except where noted examples could occur). The spreadsheet, of course, exists in a vacuum where there is no ping/input lag/etc. Achieving 90-95% of what it shows should be possible on a Patchwerk/Ebonroc style fight.

Great, thanks. I will review this tomorrow and mess around with it. 

 

 

And to anyone else that wants to use this, MAKE A COPY OF THE SPREADSHEET BEFORE MODIFYING VALUES. 

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amazing. thanks a lot. this confirms my own (poorly done) math somewhat, meaning that for example in bwl mishundare should be bis over hexxer's cover by a very slight margin. or at least equal in bwl.

finally a spreadsheet. you are my hero.

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No, it confirms the opposite, that mishundare isn't something a priest should go for. If it is at best even with Hexxer's Cover, then it should always go to a mage or warlock, for whom it is a large upgrade over T2 or Hexxer's Cover. Unless you are getting mishundare helms every kill, there will probably always be a mage or lock in need of one before you can get a Hexxer's Cover.

In full bis full consumables, crit is worth about 2.7 spell damage, making mishundare worth approximately 41 dmg (Inc the crit from the extra int). But you would not be using mishundare in a naxx geared setup, so that comparison is moot. In bwl bis, crit is worth about 2.4, so you are now certainly below the 41 dmg of Hexxer's Cover.

In AQ, the tier helm is godly, so even then, you would not use mishundare. 

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thats what i said. it is theoretically equal or marginally better. which was what i was trying to find out. not whether or not priests should get it

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You say it could be marginally better. I explain why you would never want to use one. That is the difference.

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i was looking for better mathe to see how good crit really is in those short bwl fights with mb on cd. so yes you confirmed my suspicion that it is marginally better. what i do with that info isn't the point. you dont have to explain why i dont take mishundare from a mage (or a paladin for that matter).

we were in the spot where most mages had it, warlocks should be getting t2.5 so it was about what to do with additional drops. but as i said that is really my concern.

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The problem with crit is it is worth nothing on long fights since you don't use mind blast, or use it very little. If both helms are equal in their respective ideal situations, the one that is most effective in the worst case should be the one to wear.

Anyway, you mentioned people were getting T2.5, so I'm guessing you are on anathema and in AQ, so the debate is moot, get T2.5 helm and you don't have to worry. Adjust your gear so that the hit is useful and there is nothing short of naxx that can touch the value of T2.5. A shadow priest should have little trouble being at the head of the line for the helm token. Every other class' T2.5 helm is less valuable.

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it is not moot. because there are other items with crit that i want to evaluate. t2.5 chest respectively. it isn't about mishundare alone. i think the stat values in your sheet work out nicely, tho. my problem was the severe lack of decent theorycraft on this forum and in general. this thread is pretty dead sometimes.

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On 5/27/2017 at 0:14 PM, Maxvla said:

Every other class' T2.5 helm is less valuable.

In A proper LC, mages would be fed Mish (2crit), Shadow Priest T2.5, Locks T2.5 (1 hit 1 crit).

There competition for that token, I should just get it out if the way for the priest imo, but not everybody will feel that way.

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I'd like to discuss the power of spirit on spriest gear when accounting for druid innervates. This would make 2.5 a little more valuable mana-wise, What would the math work out when accounting for an innervate on spirit's value? Twenty seconds of mana regeneration is equal to 24-28 normal ticks of mana, roughly 2500-3000 mana for myself, but with 2.5 pieces in place it would be more.

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В 28.11.2016 в 12:55, cryofsorrow сказал:

Mind Blast: 1.5 second cast spell sounds great but it has 8 seconds cooldown, it has threat multiplier by 1.5 and it's mana inefficient for the 1.5 crit damage multiplier it has. Best critical strike I've gotten so far is around 2,000 with 470 spell power. Sounds good but it really is no match to pure DPS specs' crits.

Скрытый текст

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And even there, that's still no match to warlocks' 8.000+ crits in here :-(

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Doesn't matter what you say here, if the Mind Flay fix never happens which it probably won't then your damage will be gimped immensively anyways and you'll remain as a slave in your raids. 

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On 25.5.2017 at 3:21 AM, Maxvla said:

Here is the spreadsheet. Deathlace did the core work and layout. I populated most of the gear and added missing enchants/buffs.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1F1IVqSt1MEJ9yjZ9rn1aKGIWNkJiA_CNmn6fLUpakb4/edit?usp=sharing

You can make a copy for yourself, and freely adjust the inputs. It is not perfect, but I haven't found any conflicts with expectations of gear performance (except where noted examples could occur). The spreadsheet, of course, exists in a vacuum where there is no ping/input lag/etc. Achieving 90-95% of what it shows should be possible on a Patchwerk/Ebonroc style fight.

can you explain why your spreadsheet gives 0 value to hit?

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I put together a math formula for calculating your DPS as a shadow priest assuming all debuffs and buffs are up (shadowform, darkness, shadow weaving, warlock debuffs). Some of the numbers are rounded but otherwise accurate:

y = 1.7((.055x+47.33)+(.15x+142)+1.025(.0573x+55))

where x is your spellpower. ((buffs and debuffs) x (SW:P)+(mind flay)+(mind blast considering cooldowns and cast time))

I did this with a smite build as well (assuming you are in a group with a ret paladin with sanc aura and improved judgement of crusader:

y=1.3(.055x+47.33)+1.175(.357x+240)+1.3(.0452x+55)

((buffs and debuffs) x (SW:P)+(smite)+(mind blast))

These formulas:

  • assume certain specs: 3/5 Mind Blast, Shadowform, Darkness, Shadow Weaving for shadow and Improved Smite, Force of Will for holy; and
  • do not take hit into account and;
  • do take crit into account. This means the holy formula is slightly higher than realistic as you will never be hit capped with current itemization as holy without gimping dps; and
  • unrealistically assume 100% SWP uptime and mind blast usage without interrupting mind flay or smite.

Someone will have to double check my math but at ~430 spellpower you should come ahead of shadow in pure dps. Of course, you will have to get a lot more to make up for the warlocks not having shadow weaving. Still if you are a priest on loatheb and want to put out some extra DPS shoot for a lot of spellpower and you will equal the shadow priest in raw damage!

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