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cryofsorrow

PvE Shadow Priest Basics

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Didn't see such thread on the old forums nor on these here, so I decided to compile one containing the basics.

1. General

  The Shadow Priests are probably the best utility specs in vanilla WoW. Not only they bring additional Power Word: Shield and Dispel but their 15% shadow damage debuff is great for the warlocks and it's usefulness grows exponentially depending on the number of warlocks in the raid. Both classes complement each other with the Shadow Weaving and Improved Shadow Bolt debuffs. Your job as a Shadow Priest is to keep the debuff up, not go out of mana while still do some damage and most importantly - not die because you are the lone wolf of the raid and dying in the beginning or the middle of a fight just devaluated your raid spot by 100%. Be aware that some guilds bring Shadow Priest to their raids, some do not, which mainly depends on the raid composition they usually go with.

  The writings below are simple basic information on the shadow tree of the Priest class. Not only I am not a Priest guru, but I think we all can agree that guides should just give you the general idea of certain class or spec and it's up to the player to figure out what's missing, what can be improved and how he or she can tackle a fight better. Otherwise said, "feel" out the class.

2. Race

PvE

Horde: Undead is the better choice because Will of the Forsaken and Cannibalize are really handy on a couple of fights. The extra shadow resistance is always good even if it's just 10. Troll's Berserking affects only Mind Blast which is 1.5 seconds cast spell and this will throw you into a Global Cooldown halt.

Alliance: Dwarf is the superior choice here because of the infamous Fear Ward. Sadly, you will have to drop out of Shadowform to use it and thus gimping your already low DPS. Stoneform is great on poison based boss fights or trash packs. The 5% bonus Spirit as a Human matters only by a tiny amount if you are fully buffed. Humans' Feedback ability has no application in PvE to my knowledge. Night Elves have extra nature resistance and Shadowmeld which is cute but makes almost no difference in PvE. Starshards can be used on Arcane damage based fights.

PVP

Horde: I have little PvP experience but I would put my dibs on Undead because of the immunity of fear, charm and sleep abilities. Devouring Plague is insanely good, only downside is it costs way too much mana. Touch of Weakness can be nasty if it makes a Blackout proc. Troll's Hex of Weakness and Shadowguard have their places in PvP but hardly outmatch Will of the Forsaken and Devouring Plague.

Alliance: Dwarves being the better PvP race due to Fear Ward and Stoneform. I haven tried Humans' Perception on Nostalrius but if it works properly it's a great ability for detecting invisible units. Feedback is decent versus mana users, proccing Blackout too, but costs good amount of mana even at Rank 1. Night Elves have better usage of Shadowmeld in PvP, namely the Drink/Eat into Shadowmeld macro and being able to ambush with it.

3. Specializations

Beginner/Low gear - http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bVRhsVZZxGxzcxot - This spec is mostly for beginner shadow priests to become aware of the class or players that don't have big enough mana regen and mana pool to keep up the Shadow Word:Pain application. The 1/5 Silent Resolve is on purpose because you won't be using Mind Blast that much and won't have that much spell power to overaggro. Useful for progression raids as well when you are learning and still accommodating to the fights where your damage output won't matter much.

Standart - http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxgosZZxGxucxot - The spec I use at the moment. Enables you to do the usual MindBlast->2xMindFlay->MindBlast rotation while still having Improved Fortitude for buffing. Lacks reduced mana cost on instant spells such as Dispel and Shadow Word: Pain but as shadow priest you're only helping out with dispelling (god forbid, curing) on just a few fights.

High end - http://db.vanillagaming.org/?talent#bxxosZZxGxtcxot - This spec requires full consumables usage and good gear. You'll probably need an Innervate or Mana Tide Totem to make it work to full extent. But even if you get all of the aforementioned stuff and use all your consumables properly you unavoidably will go out of mana on long fights.

Questionable talents - These are talents that are either rarely used, or might be picked just because they look good at first sight.

Improved Vampiric Embrace - The only fight this talent is a must is Loatheb in Naxxramas. Vampiric Embrace in combination of Mind Blast generates a lot of threat even if you are specced into full threat reduction. It eats up a debuff slot, too. Do NOT use this spell on Nefarian. Even if there is no Priest class call at the moment.
Improved Fade - At first glance this talent looks really good; reduces the cooldown of your ability to drop aggro for certain amount of time but it's not really worth it. Not only it's additional spell to cast but you gain the aggro back after it's effect wears off. The only time you'll be using Fade is if you screw up on pulls, the tank misses or something like that.
Improved Psychic Scream and Silence - Both are PvP talents. Silence is useful on small amount of trash packs and one fight in ZG but you need to waste 2 talent points to get it. You have tons of interupts and disables supplied by other classes.
Spirit Tap vs. Blackout - Both have little to no usage in raiding. Blackout is useless since bosses are immune to stun and it can do you more harm than good on trash packs with stunning a mob before the tank has gained enough rage to use his skills and enough threat on the target. Spirit Tap has small usage on fights with adds like Nefarian and some Molten Core encounters.
Unbreakable Will vs. Wand Specialization - I chose Unbreakable Will over Wand Specialization in all specs but the first mainly because I never wand. Mind Flay Rank 1 with enough gear outdamages every wand in the game and keeps the damage flowing and it has small mana cost. The additional 15% resist on stun, fear and silence effects comes in handy on few boss fights, some trash mobs and in world PvP while farming. Feel free to replace Unbreakable Will with Wand Specialization if you feel like it.

4. Consumables

Soft consumables:

Wizard Oil/Lesser Mana Oil - While applied to target weapon it increases spell damage by up to 24/restores 8 mana to the caster every 5 seconds. Lasts for 30 minutes. Choose one of those depending on your mana pool, gear and mana management.
Superior Mana Potion/Combat Mana Potion - Restores 900 to 1501 mana. (cooldown 2 min). Use those on shorter fights or on trash packs if you're doing a speed run so you don't burn your major potions.
Night Dragon's Breath - Restores 394 to 457 mana and 394 to 457 health. (cooldown 2 min). Shares cooldown with runes. You can get these by cleansing Night Dragon flowers in Felwood after completeing this quest. For short fights or trash packs as well.
Major Mana Potion - Restores 1350 to 2251 mana. (cooldown 2 min). This and the runes below will be your drugs that you can't live without. You'll eat them like cookies.
Dark/Demonic Rune - Restores 900 to 1501 mana at the cost of 600 to 1001 life. (cooldown 2 min). Another thing you won't be able to raid without. Be careful with these. Gluth's Decimate #neverforget.
Sagefish Delight - Easy to fish, not really expensive on AH and gives you 6 mana per 5 seconds food buff. Doesn't stack with Nightfin Soup. Unavailable untill patch 1.9.
Kreeg's Stout Beatdown - +25 spirit, -5 intellect. You buy those from Stomper Kreeg in Dire Maul North after completeing a Tribute run. Price is just 15 silver each and you can have as many as you want in your inventory.

Hard consumables:

Greater Arcane Power Elixir - Increases spell damage by up to 35 for 1 hr.
Elixir of Shadow Power - Increases spell shadow damage by up to 40 for 30 min.
Mageblood Potion - Regenerate 12 mana per 5 sec for 1 hr. This becomes available with ZG patch.
Nightfin Soup - Gives you 8 mana per 5 seconds food buff. A bit of hassle to fish Raw Nightfin Snappers and they're somewhat expensive on AH.There is no shool of fish for this specific fish. I catch mine in the waters of Azshara. Doesn't stack with Sagefish Delight.
Brilliant Wizard Oil - While applied to target weapon it increases spell damage by up to 36 and increases Spell Critical chance by 1% . Lasts for 30 minutes. Unavailable untill patch 1.9.
Spirit of Zanza - Increases the player's Spirit by 50 and Stamina by 50 for 2 hr. Used mainly for speed runs since it costs 3 Zandalar Honor Tokens to get (3 coin sets returned or 3 bijous destroyed). After ZG patch.
Cerebral Cortex Compound - Increases Intellect by 25 when consumed. Effect lasts for 60 minutes. A potion rewarded by finishing The Basilisk's Bite/Infallible Mind (Repeatable) quests in Blasted Lands. Requires Vulture Gizzard x 2 and Basilisk Brain x 10 that can be either farmed near the quest NPC or bought from AH. Used mainly for speed runs. Stacks with Arcane Intelligence.
Flask of Supreme Power (Distilled Wisdom) -  Increases damage done by magical spells and effects by up to 150 for 2 hr. You should flask up only on progression raids or speed runs. If you have severe mana problems, you may want to use Distilled Wisdom one but I wouldn't recommend it.

Survavability consumables:

Limited Invulnerability Potion - Imbiber is immune to physical attacks for the next 6 sec. Eventhough you're not a hard DPS spec, bringing few of these every raid is a must. Cheap to make and it'll save you for that one time where Fade is not enough.
Heavy Runecloth Bandage - A consumable every raider should have. Helps out to relieve healers.

There are few more survivability consumables that I didn't mention as they're mostly situational/optional. You can check taladril's full consumables list here.

5. Items

The pre-raid list may differ a bit for 1.3 patch players. This is a list for 1.6 patch.

Pre-raid best in slot:

Head: Crimson Felt Hat
Felcloth Hood
Neck: Dark Advisor's Pendant
Anastari Heirloom
Shoulders: Burial Shawl
Felcloth Shoulders (Tailoring craft)
Cloak: Archivist Cape of Shadow Wrath
Amplifying Cloak
Deep Woodlands Cloak - Horde only.
Chest: Bloodvine Vest (Tailoring craft) - After ZG patch.
Robe of Winter Night (Tailoring craft)
Wrist: Sublime Wristguards
Weapon: Blade of the New Moon or Scepter of the Unholy
Off-Hand: Tome of Shadow Force - Requires AV exalted.
Drakestone of Shadow Wrath
Umbral Crystal
Swampchill Fetish
Wand: Dragon Finger of Shadow Wrath
Skul's Ghastly Touch
Bonecreeper Stylus
Hands: Felcloth Gloves (Tailoring craft)
Gloves of Shadowy Mist
Waist: Thuzadin Sash
Oddly Magical Belt
Legs: Bloodvine Leggings (Tailoring craft) - After ZG patch.
Skyshroud Leggings
Feet: Bloodvine Boots (Tailoring craft) - After ZG patch.
Maleki's Footwraps
Finger: Maiden's Circle
Underworld Band
Eye of Orgrimmar
Ring of Demonic Guile
Trinkets: Briarwood Reed
Mindtap Talisman - Get two of these if you can. Great for dispel/cure heavy and longer fights.
Burst of Knowledge - For short fights.

Pre-AQ patch best in slot:

Head: The Hexxer's Cover
Mish'undare, Circlet of the Mind Flayer - Short fights.
Neck: Choker of the Fire Lord
Shoulders: Mantle of the Blackwing Cabal
Cloak: Cloak of Consumption
Cloak of the Brood Lord - If you get 1% hit elsewhere.
Chest: Jade Inlaid Vestments - World boss drop, hard to get.
Robe of Winter Night (Tailoring craft)
Wrist: Bracers of Arcane Accuracy
Weapon: Lok'amir il Romathis
Off-Hand: Tome of Shadow Force - Requires AV exalted.
Wand: Touch of Chaos
Hands: Ebony Flame Gloves
Waist: Firemaw's Clutch
Legs: Fel Infused Leggings - World boss drop, hard to get and you'll need 1% hit elsewhere.
Bloodvine Leggings (Tailoring craft)
Feet: Snowblind Shoes - World boss drop, hard to get.
Betrayer's Boots
Finger: Band of Dark Dominion
Band of Forced Concentration
Trinkets: Neltharion's Tear
Talisman of Ephemeral Power
Zandalarian Hero Charm - For multi-dot fights.

Items worth noting:

Anathema - One of the best looking staves in the game, both versions. Didn't fit in either list, this is more of a honorable mention as it's the best you can get for shadow priests before Lok'amir.
Shard of the Scale - Great trinket for really long fights like Nefarian. 960 mana over 5 minutes? Sounds good to me.
Champion's Investiture - Priest PvP set gives good mixture of spell power and mp5.
Zanzil's Seal - Good ring to have if you're missing spell hit.
Zanzil's Band - If you have both it's even better.
Ring of Blackrock - Good mixture of spell power and mp5.
Bloodtinged Gloves - Spell power and spell hit gloves.
Jin'do's Bag of Whammies - Good to have if need the spell hit.

Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon - Use this only if you are extremely lucky with the procs. Shard of the Scale outperforms this trinket since it doesn't rely on 2% chance.

Enchants:

Head: +8 Healing and Spell damage from this quest that has this as pre-quest.
Shoulders: +18 Healing and Spell damage. Requires Exalted with Zandalar Tribe. If no ZG patch - Argent Dawn shoulder enchant by choice.
Cloak: +5 All Resistance or +10 to specific one. After AQ enchants are in game get Subtlety on your cloak even if it's just 2% threat reduction.
Chest: +100 Mana or +4 Stats.
Wrist: +7 Intellect or 4 Mana per 5 seconds.
Weapon: +30 Spell Damage.
Hands: Minor Mount Speed Increase untill AQ enchants get in the game. +20 Shadow Damage once AQ hits.
Legs: +8 Healing and Spell damage from this quest that has this as pre-quest.
Feet: Minor Speed Increase. Some people prefer the +5 Spirit one. No big difference.

6. Stat priority

Spell Hit > Spell Power > Mana per 5 sec. > Intellect > Spell Crit >= Spirit

Spell Hit - You will need 6% from gear to get hit capped if you are specced 5/5 Shadow Focus which gives you 10% already. However, even then you will have 1% chance to miss a spell. Getting maximum hit is your biggest priority because shadow priests have big mana issues especially on longer fights and one resisted spell = mana down the drain. Keep around spell hit items even if you're not using them and keep yourself hitcapped.
Spell Power - The more the better. Start stacking this after you get hit capped.
Mana per 5 sec. - Really good stat to have but don't overdo it in exchange of spell power. Use Mp5/SP mixed items on long fights.
Intellect - Nice stat for short fights where mana regen or mp5 is not that important as it boosts your mana pool and spell crit.
Spell Crit - Almost useless stat on shadow priests. The only spell it affects is Mind Blast which is mana inefficient and causes extra threat. Also, shadow priests are stuck with the 1.5 multiplier when it comes to crits and there's no way to improve it by talents.
Spirit - You shouldn't aim for this stat because you're always casting and the 15% mana regeneration from Meditation talent is pretty low due to lacking Spirit stat on most of your BiS gear.

7. Spells, rotations and spell coefficients

Spells:

Shadow Word: Pain: Arguably the strongest ticking Damage over Time spells in the game. Deals good amount of damage even if it costs almost 500 mana without 5/5 Mental Agility. It's your primary source of DPS and as such you should reapply it every time it's down.
Mind Flay: Mediocre channeling spell but once you get more and more gear, combined with Shadow Word: Pain's ticks, you can keep up a steady 400 DPS even without using Mind Blast. It gets pushed off somewhat easily if there are too many debuffs on the boss but the damage is still ticking as the debuff itself is just the Slow effect.
Mind Blast: 1.5 second cast spell sounds great but it has 8 seconds cooldown, it has threat multiplier by 1.5 and it's mana inefficient for the 1.5 crit damage multiplier it has. Best critical strike I've gotten so far is around 2,000 with 470 spell power. Sounds good but it really is no match to pure DPS specs' crits.
Vampiric Embrace: Very situational spell. It has it's uses on Vaelastrasz the Corrupt and Hakkar to some extent. Watch your threat generation and avoid using Mind Blast on cooldown when using this spell. If the raid leader or your class leader don't require you to use it, then don't. It'll just harm your DPS output and the overall raid DPS due to a lost debuff slot. Do NOT use Vampiric Embrace on Nefarian, even if there is no Priest class call at the moment.
Devouring Plague: Do not use Devouring Plague in PvE raids. It's fine in dungeons. Two reasons not to use in raids: extremely mana inefficient spell worth almost 1000 mana and deals low damage (you'll probably have to use it with Inner Focus on and waste two 3-minute cooldowns) and it has the lowest debuff priority which means it'll be pushed off almost immediately. You can use it on multi-dot fights at your judgement.
Starshards: It's not commonly used because it doesn't benefit from Darkness, Shadowform and Shadow Weaving percentage bonuses among other debuffs. Starshards can be used on arcane damage fights, such as Chromaggus and Ahn'Qiraj Anubisath trash mobs.

Rotations:

As Alliance having Blessing of Salvation will help you out when it comes to the opening. As Horde you will have to keep it down a bit at the start of a fight but all in all the rotation should look something like this:

Short fights: Trinket if you have+SW:P>Mind Flay>Inner Focus+Mind Blast>Mind Flay x2>Mind Blast>reapply SW:P if it's down and so on.
If you're confident with your tanks and/or you are Alliance you can start with SW:P>Mind Blast...
Use Fade as you see fit but remember that you will regain the aggro you "lost" after it's effect fades. Threat lost with Rank 6 Fade: 820 for 10 seconds.

Long fights: SW:P Rank 1 x4>Trinket if you have+SW:P Rank 9>Mind Blast>Mind Flay x2...
On longer fights it's thoughtful to not use Mind Blast that much due to mana cost. Just keep Shadow Word: Pain up and keep Mind Flaying. When you get out of mana/low mana start using Mind Flay Rank 1 or just wand if you don't have the gear to regen 45 mana every 3 seconds. Play around with Inner Focus as well. This way in long fights you should have a cooldown for every 1 minute. Obviously Inner Focus + Mind Blast will have the best outcome but I suggest using Inner Focus for Shadow Word: Pain on longer fights as it is really mana expensive.

Rule of thumb is synchronizing your % mana with boss HP%.
Use your rune on 1700 mana missing and your mana potion on 2500 mana missing.

Spell coefficients:

Shadow Word: Pain: 1
Mind Flay: 0.45
Mind Blast: 0.43
Devouring Plague: 0.48

8: Addons

GridEnhanced or LunaUnitFrames - You still need to watch your raid's HP even if you are a semi-DPS spec.
eCastingBar - Cast bar addon that adjusts itself to your latency. Most cast bars do that, I prefer using this one.
ClassicSnowFall - Makes your spells being cast on button press, not on button release.
Chronometer - DoT timer.
OmniCC - Counts down cooldowns with nice, white numbers right onto your icons.
KLH/KTM meter - Threat meter, you'll need it.
TheoryCraft - Addon that shows you how your gear affects your spells, stats, mana regen in and outside combat, etc. Really useful when you want to min-max your character.

This is the first guide I've ever made, I hope I haven't missed something and everything is coherent and comprehensive. Feel free to discuss, correct and suggest.

Shout out goes to Meledyne @ Warsong who answered every small or big question I had about shadow priests few years ago and made me understand the spec better.

Edited by cryofsorrow

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I love the link you provide with old sources regarding Spell Damage Coefficient.

 

I just can add my input regarding gear if you don't mind : Go more on Intellect rather than Spell Damage , mainly because your DPS output will be via MindBlasts (the tree you have posted for High End).

 

Anathema is the best reason and example for Stats requirement as Shadow Priest PVE mainly because of "Intellect" and ofc "mana regen".

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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MB costs 350 mana (Max rank, you will never use a lowrank MB)

 

For every 350 mana you will need 23 int. You cannot stack int without forgoing ridiculous amounts of spellpower and Spell Hit.

 

For this reason you go:

Spell Hit > Spell Power > Mana per 5 sec. > Intellect > Spell Crit >= Spirit

 

Intellect you will get on your gear with Spell Power naturaly.

 

Anathema is a good example of an exceptional item for Shadow. It is good because it has everything a spriest needs (Minus the +Spell hit ofc). It isn't awsome because it has int and mana regen on it. It is awsome because it has super high Spell Power WITH int and mana regen.

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You should add some alternatives to the pre-raid BiS list, Felcloth Hood beats crimson felt hat if we're talking pure DPS, Deep Woodlands Cloak is horde only. No mention of Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon?

 

Also does Mageblood Potion and Blessing of Wisdom stack? (Not a snarky comment, I'm just not sure).

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Good guide. Only things I would note:

1: You should carry a full mp5 set into raids that have a dispelling heavy fight.

You can still keep up your debuff with rank 1-shadow spells while spamming dispels.

2: You better be close to 100%, raid attendance if you are to be rewarded the special 1 out of 40 raid spot. (Unless you and another shadow priest take turns raiding)

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You should add some alternatives to the pre-raid BiS list, Felcloth Hood beats crimson felt hat if we're talking pure DPS, Deep Woodlands Cloak is horde only. No mention of Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon?

 

Also does Mageblood Potion and Blessing of Wisdom stack? (Not a snarky comment, I'm just not sure).

 

Crimson Felt Hat. The Spirit outweighs the 2 int (30 mana) difference with Meditation [Edit: just to clarify, anything over a 2 min fight]. Regardless the difference is not noticeable.

 

Darkmoon Card: Blue Dragon should be on the list aswell for sure.

 

Could an alliance please confirm/deny if Mageblood Potion + Blessing of Wisdom stacks on Nostalrius?

Edited by Shayss

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Could an alliance please confirm/deny if Mageblood Potion + Blessing of Wisdom stacks on Nostalrius?

I do not believe it does. Same goes with spirit potion not stacking with Priest spirit buff and intellect potion not stacking with Mage buff.

Great job on the guide. A couple of points I would like to add (sorry if they were covered already)

The R10 pieces for spriest are excellent. A somewhat realistic item set for an spriest in a strong PvE raiding guild will be the Hexxers Cover (ZG) and Mantle of the Blackwing Cabaal (BWL). You should not getting Mishundare until all other caster DPS has it. The R10 pieces are a close second to this set up for PvE and are great for PvP.

It should be noted that demonic/dark runes should be used FIRST for fights (assuming you need them to not go OOM). I will generally pop a rune as soon as I am down 1200-1500 mana, then pop a major mana when I am back down 2500 mana. Repeat until the fight ends.

Generally speaking, if you believe the boss fight will last less than 9 seconds, do not reapply SW:P.

Never forget your primary focus is keeping up Shadow Weaving! I know this was covered already, but wanted to make a point of it.

If you and your guild is well geared and you are full consumes, and are potting every chance you can, you should be able to last any raid fight without going OOM in current content except for Nef, and then Hakkar, Rag, and Chromag are generally down to the wire.

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@Killerduki, that's the oldest source I could find. And I believe it should be a real vanilla one mainly because the guy doesn't mention Shadow Word: Death. If you happen to know better about the coefficients - be sure to let me know. I've mentioned the Intellect thing in the stat priority part.

@Undertanker, I thought the mp5 set is a default for every dispel/cure/decurse class that's why I didn't include it. Good note for beginner priests.

@Akirani, I've mentioned Felcloth Shoulders having more spell power but I personally like well-rounded items with both spell power and stats. I didn't mention Blue Dragon card due to couple of reasons; I've tried it more than few times in a raid environment on Nostalrius as both Holy and Shadow specs. I felt the % of the proc as quite unsatisfying for both specs and as shadow you won't have that much Spirit to make good use of it. Rather have 2x Mindtap Trinkets or Mindtap/Shard of the Scale. I'm sorry about the cloak, it's been a while since I've played Alliance. I'll try to find alternative for the other faction and add it when the edit function is fixed.

Mageblood and Wisdom blessing should work together, I've never heard anything about not stacking. We need some Alliance priest to confirm this.

@Prancinglid, both Spirit of Zanza and the Cortex potion are stacking with class buffs unless they changed something in the very last week before Nostalrius shutdown. The only thing that shoulndn't stack is the Blasted Lands Spirit buff from the same NPC and the Spirit of Zanza potion when consumed together, that's why I didn't mention it but it's a good substitude of Cortex buff if you don't go for Zanza potion.

I knew I should've added Hexxers Cover but I was too lazy to calculate the differences in DPS output so I simply slapped Mish'undare in there. Kinda sloppy on my side, sorry. And funny you didn't mention Neltharion's Tear being unrealistic in the BiS list. ^^

I'm curious on the Rune first and Potion second thing. I don't see how it makes difference which one you pop first.

Edited by cryofsorrow

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I believe Amplifying Cloak is the go-to Pre-bis for alliance.

 

I suppose we should also mention "of Shadow Wrath" +21 Shadow Spell Damage. BoE green cloak, but this will be damn expensive / rare?

Edited by Shayss

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I was just going through some capes. Archivist Cape of Shadow Wrath and as Shayss mentioned Amplifying Cloak should be the pre-raid BiS. I will make sure to put them on the list once that edit function is fixed. And yes, any green item of Shadow Wrath will yield more DPS overall on short fights with the price of having no stats and being expensive. But those are for min-maxing your gear for maximum spell power, I've made my list for a general overlook on the items.

I have no idea how I missed the Amplifying cape and I farmed that thing for so long. :D

Edited by cryofsorrow

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Two Questions regarding Stat priority :

 

1- Can we have Theorycraft Intellect versus Spell Damage versus Mana Output and Damage done Ratio ?

2- How did you got Intellect so low on Stat Priority ?

 

Just one Question regarding to your Gear :

 

On your pre AQ40 BiS Gear :

 

1- Why don't you use Transcendence 3 Pieces where you get extra 15% Mana Regeneration while Casting?

 

In combination with Discipline talent you go up to 30% Mana Regeneration which is imo something that makes you nearly impossible to oom even if you spam 5/5 improved Mindblast on CD  thanks to runes and pots.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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1. Sure we can. Feel free to compile one if you feel having more Intellect outperforms having more Spell Power. I'm too lazy to work with numbers, especially when it comes to something somewhat insignificant like this.
2. It's already explained why Intellect is with such low priority for Shadow Priests. If you come up with numbers countering this, I will change it once the edit function is fixed.
3. About using T2 3/8 bonus: It's a healing set, duh. The additional 15% mana regen while casting is okayish but I'm certain it's not worth losing so much spell power for it. And you still will get out of mana no matter what. Even Holy Priests that have good Spirit stats from their standart gear run out of mana, T2 set bonus or not. It's the same as using AQ20 Priest healing set as Shadow Priest just for that 5% damage increase on Shadow Word: Pain damage. It's simply not worth it.

If you somehow disagree with all this, post numbers we can work with and we'll discuss it over.

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Mageblood and Wisdom blessing should work together, I've never heard anything about not stacking. We need some Alliance priest to confirm this.

@Prancinglid, both Spirit of Zanza and the Cortex potion are stacking with class buffs unless they changed something in the very last week before Nostalrius shutdown. The only thing that shoulndn't stack is the Blasted Lands Spirit buff from the same NPC and the Spirit of Zanza potion when consumed together, that's why I didn't mention it but it's a good substitude of Cortex buff if you don't go for Zanza potion.

I knew I should've added Hexxers Cover but I was too lazy to calculate the differences in DPS output so I simply slapped Mish'undare in there. Kinda sloppy on my side, sorry. And funny you didn't mention Neltharion's Tear being unrealistic in the BiS list. ^^

I'm curious on the Rune first and Potion second thing. I don't see how it makes difference which one you pop first.

 

Yes, you are correct that Spirit of Zanza and Cortex should be stacking with class buffs (and I am nearly positive they were). I was referring to Elixir of Sages and Elixir of Intellect.

 

And I was only discussing Mish'undare as an "unrealistic" piece for spriests because I was talking about head and shoulder gear set options compared to the R10 pieces. To rephrase, the R10 pair of armor is AWESOME with their set bonuses and isn't far off from Mantle of the Blackwing Cabaal and Hexxer's Cover (an item that is more attainable than Mish'undare)... With the item updates for the PvP sets you gain 4 intellect, 12 stamina, 12 mp5, but LOSE 15 spell power with the R10 combo compared to the aforementioned one.

 

But yes, Mishun'dare, Choker of the Firelord, Band of Forced Concentration, and Neltharion's Tear are all items that spriests should get only after all warlocks and mages have them.

 

As far as why you want to use runes first in a fight, it all has to do with the frequency in which you are able to restore your mana pool. Since the runes give you less mana than the major mana potions, you can use them first. The faster you can use ANY item to restore mana (assuming you are getting the full benefit of the item and using the item doesn't interfere with using a similar one with a shared CD) during a fight, then you have a greater chance of being able to restore MORE mana during the entire course of the fight. To put it simply, if you are able to use a mana restoring item 6 seconds sooner than another (this being the runes compared to the major mana potion) at the START of the fight, then that is 6 seconds sooner you are able to use it at the END of the fight. Depending on the length of the fight this difference may or may not matter.

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RIght, right, makes perfect sense. I'm using Rune first and Potion second by default but never put any thought on which one is better to use first. Thanks for the input on that matter.

I agree about the PvP set pieces as well, but I'm in no way PvPer so I've never actually tried it in a raid since I've never got that set. And I guess we can put the PvP set parts being better on long fights such as Nefarian since they outperform straight Spell Power items in terms of mana gained which in turn equals more damage done. Same goes for items with Mana per 5 seconds items. Ring of Blackrock instead of a straight Spell Power ring and Shard of the Scale instead of an active trinket should outdps straight Spell Power items on longer fights. This is considering you don't get any Innervate/Mana Tide Totem.

I really need that edit function now, must edit some stuff about the mp5 stat I forgot. ^^

Edited by cryofsorrow

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Mishun'dare, Choker of the Firelord, Band of Forced Concentration, and Neltharion's Tear are all items that spriests should get only after all warlocks and mages have them.

 

I agree with 2/4 of this.

 

Mishun'dare they don't need the crit, the can use T2.5 helm Tiara of the Oracle which will help get the SPriest out of Bloodvine while keeping hit cap. A lot of the other T2.5 isn't as good as other non set items. (only need +6 hit).    After all your mages/locks get this helm, it should go to pally healers over a shadow priest.  In Naxx Shadow Priest will want: Preceptor's Hat .   Once your guild is farming AQ, locks and mages should be passing this as well to pally healers as well, the T2.5 helms are OP for locks and mages:  Doomcaller's Circlet  Enigma Circlet

 

Band of Forced Concentration for sure should be given to Spriest last as they should be going for Ring of Spell Power / Signet Ring of the Bronze Dragonflight / Ring of Blackrock / Band of Dark Dominion.   Forced Concentration, if non of your mages/locks need, might as well go to the holy priest to start building hit for Naxx.

 

Neltharion's Tear spriest should have equal priority to this as a mage, as mages get much more hit from their talents than a warlock and +2 hit from ZG enchants. Locks are the ones in dire need of hit until they have AQ/BWL/ZG hit gear.  After ranged dps get it, don't give to holy priest for naxx hit, give to pallys as it is their BiS until Naxx for hard hitting bosses, and may use Scarab Brooch on farmed raids/5 mans.  hpriest can get less desirable hit gear for Instructor - Naxx.    Now lets look at the alternatives for spriest: Hero Charm / ToeP / Darkmoon Card until Naxx Sapp: The Restrained Essence of Sapphiron.   So if a mage is allowed to bid/LC consideration, the Spriest should as well, so he can go harder on MP5/Shadow/SP damage on other slots.

 

The Choker of the Fire Lord is a really good item for shadow priest and mages equally (see less hit needed above).   With AQ locks and mages will be wanting: Amulet of Vek'nilash.  Son once AQ is out, and if your Spriest doesn't have it, give it to him.   A warlock that is lacking hit gear from BWL ZG+ should be using Diana's Pearl Necklace .   In Naxx Locks and mages will want: Gem of Trapped Innocents there is no replacement for Choker for a Shadow Priest.   A person shouldn't be Last in line for a BiS FOREVER item when other classes upgrade multiple times in the same slot.   That is called wasting your loot drops.

Edited by Undertanker

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@Undertanker, very nice dissertation on loot and BiS item slots, I agree completely. However, at the end of the day different guilds have different views on the matter. T2.5 Head is great for shadow priests, yes, but the gear lists I did is for pre-AQ that's why Mishun'dare is present in there. Also, getting T2.5 Head is almost as hard as getting Mishun'dare because it's really good for other casters as well. Almost all guilds have their shadow priests with the lowest loot priority, as they should. May be the only item that should always go to a shadow priest first is Firemaw's Clutch.

I disagree with the Darkmoon Card being viable for shadow priests. In a 5 minute fight it'll proc 2 or 3 (if lucky) times according to:

SW:P 1.5s -> MB 1.5s -> 2x MF 6s -> MB 1.5s -> 2x MF 6s -> MB 1.5s -> 2x MF 6s -> SW:P 1.5s -> MB 1.5s -> 1x MF 3s = 30seconds, 13 casts total
multiplied by 10 for 5 minutes = 130 casts total excluding any server lag
the rotation here is just theoretical in sake of calculating casts

And I'm not even sure if it can proc off a channeling spell or DoT. Also, in reality you won't be spamming Mind Blast that much, which I'm certain it can proc off, and thus lowers the % even more.

My Priest has 144 base + 22 gear + 40 Divine Spirit + 16 Mark of the Wild + 25 Dire Maul brew = 247 Spirit excluding Zanza potion which is not used every raid. Correct me if I'm missing a buff here.
247 Spirit = 247/4 + 12.5 (according to http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Spirit ) = 74.25 (74 rounded) normal regen for 15 seconds. That's roughly 370 mana for the duration. Let's say it procs twice, that's 740 mana. Shard of the Scale regains 960 mana for the same duration and it doesn't rely on 2% chance.

Edited by cryofsorrow

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Yeah I only put Darkmoon card in there because others mentioned it.   It is best for druid/priest heals if they are raid healing which means using a lot of insta-cast HoTs, more cast in less time.

 

I got it on my druid right before server shutdown.  Would be cool if I could find a marco that would detect the buff on me and auto swap my weapon to Will of Arlokk + 20 spirit enchant.  And when the buff is not on me, swap back to Jindo's Hexxer / Lei of the Lifegiver.

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Intellect vs spell damage isn't an argument, since upgrades after tier zero have intellect and spell power in wearable gear.

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Some people like to make an argument out of it when comparing items like Tome of Shadow Force vs. Master Dragonslayer's Orb for example. The 14 intellect difference here will net you 0.23 spell crit and 210 mana which is 1 additional Mind Flay at the cost of 6 Spell Power. And this is why intellect has low priority.

The reason why i requested from you Theorycrafting was this :

 

426 damage from mindflay and would be (2/3) of mindblast that might give similar results + 10% by Darkness = 468 + 15% from shadow weaving it might result either 489 or 538 (depend on how bonuses are sort) + Shadowform 15% = 618 (or something close depend on how bonuses are set) .

 

618 damage you gain by 14 intellect + 0.23 spell crit over 90 seconds duration of fight, this will result into 7 dps or even higher dps in short fight.

 

6 Spell damage will result into = 2.58 damage from Mind Blast + 2.7 damage from Mind Flay + 7.98 damage from swp

 

(assuming 5/5 Mindblast) 2.58 damage will end up 0.46 DPS + (mindflay will divide in 3 ticks) 0.9  DPS + (since your coefficient is more than 100% it mean it goes 24 seconds) 0.33 DPS = 1.69 DPS or in case i failed to calculate with all Bonuses will end up to 2.45 DPS

 

This result in 6 Spell Damage = 2.45 DPS versus 14 Intellect = 7 DPS (or even higher for shorter duration of fight than 90 Seconds, but useless in shorter fight than 25 seconds or fight like Vaelstraz).

 

As i said before , Intellect is superior stat compare to Spell Damage for Shadow Priest .

I calculated this way because main weakness for Shadow Priest is Mana where every bit of Intellect and Mp5 matters.

 

Shout out goes to Meledyne @ Warsong who answered every small or big question I had about shadow priests few years ago and made me understand the spec better.

 

 

You speak about this Guy in screenshot with me : https://scontent-vie1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/14853111_10154018844585418_4164614464901161512_o.jpg

 

He was pure noob m8 , i remember giving him lessons how to DPS as Shadow Priest back in Feenix and i wonder how people even trust his ways where before he got that gear, he had no idea how to play Shadow Priest thus was carry by his Guild.

 

"sorry for my English spelling"

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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The 14 intellect won't result in 6 DPS increase in short fights since you're not using that additional Mind Flay gained by getting more Intellect on your gear. It will in fact lower your DPS because you're lowering your Spell Power. This is for short fights. The 0.23% spell critical is almost nothing. I will do some theorycrafting later today about longer fights and we'll see what numbers I come up with.

Yes, same Meledyne. Sadly, you and I don't share the same opinion as the guy had pretty good idea on how not only shadow but overall the Priest class works. Anyway, this is not the thread's topic, I will return later today with numbers on Intellect vs. Spell Power on longer fights. I'll be using the Pre-AQ BiS gear as a stencil and I'll test Tome of Shadow Force vs. Master Dragonslayer's Orb again. Telling you this so you have the stats if you want to crunch numbers in the meanwhile.

@Av_vA, your spec doesn't have Shadowform included. I believe this is somehow related with your avatar. :)

Edited by cryofsorrow

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"Dwarf is the superior choice here because of the infamous Fear Ward. Sadly, you will have to drop out of Shadowform to use it and thus gimping your already low DPS."

Can anyone confirm fear ward not usable in shadowform ?

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