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cryofsorrow

PvE Shadow Priest Basics

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The 14 intellect won't result in 6 DPS increase in short fights since you're not using that additional Mind Flay gained by getting more Intellect on your gear. It will in fact lower your DPS because you're lowering your Spell Power. This is for short fights. The 0.23% spell critical is almost nothing. I will do some theorycrafting later today about longer fights and we'll see what numbers I come up with.

 

Also 6 Spell damage won't result into 2.45 Seconds if you "downrank abilities" or if you "oom".

It will in fact also lower your DPS for that reasons.

 

More Intellect is more Spell Casts = more Damage + Bigger Mana pool regenerating by Spirit/Mp5 Gear before it goes down + Spell Crit.

You can't deny the fact if you Max Rank on CD including 5/5 Mind Blast won't make you oom regardless how much Consumes you will use in any fight that is longer than 25 Seconds.

 

Feel free to provide me evidence of your Max Ranking on CD without getting oom over 50-60-70-80-90 Seconds.

 

14 Intellect in short fight will be even more than 7 DPS where 618 Damage / x seconds of the fight .

This will result :

 

80 Seconds fight = 7.75 DPS

70 Seconds fight = 8.82 DPS

60 Seconds fight = 10.3 DPS

50 Seconds fight = 12.36 DPS

40 Seconds fight = 15.45 DPS

30 seconds fight = 20.6 DPS

 

Meanwhile 6 Spell Damage is all the time 2.45 DPS regardless how long fight is , where in longer fights you will have risk to OOM and this will have high disadvantage to your Spell Damage.

 

The only fights 14 Intellect will not be efficient is as i said the ones that are lesser than 25 Seconds where is impossible for you to have a need to use Consumes for Mana, here is how many fights there is that are shorter than 25 Seconds?

 

WIth the high end gear best in slot Geared people: http://realmplayers.com/RaidStats/BossList.aspx?realm=NRB

 

Molten Core

3 Fights are lesser than 25 Seconds where Intellect won't matter and 1 Fight is longer than 25 Seconds where we could also include that one in list.

4 Fights are longer than 30 Seconds where Intellect is powerful tool.

1 Fight is 60 Seconds which again Intellect is powerful tool there.

 

BWL

Average fight is 30+ Seconds.

Only fight where Intellect won't matter is Vaelstraz

1 Fight is 300 Seconds which have breaks and Spirit/Mp5 Gear matter and comes into play stronger than Intellect and Spell Damage.

 

ZG

Average fight is 50+ Seconds where only 1 fight is 23 Seconds.

 

Yes, same Meledyne. Sadly, you and I don't share the same opinion as the guy had pretty good idea on how not only shadow but overall the Priest class works.

 

He have only 3-4 Years experience from Private servers only , i got 10+ years experience as Shadow Priest including retail.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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"Dwarf is the superior choice here because of the infamous Fear Ward. Sadly, you will have to drop out of Shadowform to use it and thus gimping your already low DPS."

Can anyone confirm fear ward not usable in shadowform ?

Fear ward is not usable in Shadowform because it is classified as a "holy spell".

Trust me, after having to switch out of form countless times to buff DPS on the way to Magmadar and needing to fill in to do it on Nef, not to mention numerous PvP scenarios, you most definitely can not use it while in Shadowform.

Edited by Prancinglid

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Doesn't matter that it isn't usable in shadow form. On boss fights that it is needed > than the dps loss of you being in shadow all the time. You can still keep weaving up while doing so.

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Doesn't matter that it isn't usable in shadow form. On boss fights that it is needed > than the dps loss of you being in shadow all the time. You can still keep weaving up while doing so.

 

I agree that he can be "backup" in case he is Dwarf , but :

 

I'd rather use Healer Priests to Fearward since you will possible have 4 Healer Priests during fight where only 2 Dwarfs are enough to rotate Fear War , in such case you won't have a need for Shadow Priest to waste his extra Mana for that , Human Shadow Priest is best due to Spirit and Mana regen from that thanks to T2 (3 items sets and Disc Talent that will provide him 30% extra Mana regeneration from Spirit while Casting) ;)

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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"Human Shadow Priest is best due to Spirit and Mana regen from that thanks to T2 (3 items sets and Disc Talent that will provide him 30% extra Mana regeneration from Spirit while Casting)"
That's right. Let's use healing sets as shadow priest and do "extreme dps!!! with Killerduki's tips".

"You can't deny the fact if you Max Rank on CD including 5/5 Mind Blast won't make you oom regardless how much Consumes you will use in any fight that is longer than 25 Seconds."
?????????????????

"More Intellect is more Spell Casts = more Damage + Bigger Mana pool regenerating by Spirit/Mp5 Gear before it goes down + Spell Crit."
Yeah, man, I stack intellect in order to regen mana. Kappa.

You have 10 years of experience, my попа. I was thinking on calculating the actual differences on 14 intellect vs 6 spell power but now I see it won't matter any way because I've see this happening before and I know where it goes. You are the deffinition of a troll.

I will just leave some links here so the community knows what kind of person they are dealing with. I won't respond to you any more in this forum but I won't ignore you so I keep the entertainment value out of it.

http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/88243-bunnehs-raiding-shadowpriest-guide/?page=4
http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/84545-true-pve-shadow-priest-dps-agree-with-this-and-be-superior-or-leave-it/
http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/84735-killerduki-shadow-priest-guide-pve-damage-optimize-and-easy-mana-managment/

These threads actually contain really good and valuable information for anyone interested in the Shadow Priest. Of course you should ignore Killerduki's opinions about it since they are misinformed and intented to troll. There are also quite bit funny posts so don't eat while reading.

PS: Thank you for ruining another thread with your misinformed фекал.

Edited by cryofsorrow

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Of course you should ignore Killerduki's opinions about it since they are misinformed and intented to troll.

Yep. He claims that Prot Paladins should be main tanks, while simultaneously claiming that if you're not in a tanking/healing spec for leveling dungeons, you are being subpar and he would kick you from the group.

 

:lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

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I can't understand some things in this guide.

1. Spirit Tap 5/5. Why? It procs/should proc on the killing blow only. You need last hit on every enemy to get it proc which is nearly impossible in group, especially in 40 man raid.

2. Is threat that big problem? Trade "Shadow Affinity" for "Mental Agility". Paladins have Blessin of Salvation(30%), Shamans - Tranquil Air Totem(20%). There are some enchants and a very good trinket. Avoiding "Vampiric Embrace" also reduces your threat.

3. Nobody mentioned Night Elf racial spell Starshards. There are some info here. It should be a good addition to spell rotation and since its an arcane spell, additional reason to drop "Shadow Affinity" for "Mental Agility".

 

How about this build?

1. "Unbreakable Will" can be swapped with "Wand Specialization" depending on your needs.

2. There is also an option to get a "silence" instead of 3/5 Mind Blast. Talent build here. Less dps than previous, but better crowd control.

Edited by reymond

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I can't understand some things in this guide.

1. Spirit Tap 5/5. Why? It procs/should proc on the killing blow only. You need last hit on every enemy to get it proc which is nearly impossible in group, especially in 40 man raid.

2. Is threat that big problem? Trade "Shadow Affinity" for "Mental Agility". Paladins have Blessin of Salvation(30%), Shamans - Tranquil Air Totem(20%). There are some enchants and a very good trinket. Avoiding "Vampiric Embrace" also reduces your threat.

3. Nobody mentioned Night Elf racial spell Starshards. There are some info here. It should be a good addition to spell rotation and since its an arcane spell, additional reason to drop "Shadow Affinity" for "Mental Agility".

 

How about this build?

1. "Unbreakable Will" can be swapped with "Wand Specialization" depending on your needs.

2. There is also an option to get a "silence" intead of 3/5 Mind Blast. Talent build here. Less dps than previous, but better crowd control.

I've covered the talents thing in the first post but I will do it again. Reread it if you want.

Both Spirit Tap and Blackout are useless in PvE raiding. There are few fights where you can time your Mind Blast for last hit on adds but that's about it. But it'll help you out when you farm gold/consumables. Blackout can only harm your raid by stunning a trash mob making the tank unable to gain enough threat on it and it'll go after DPS/Healers. The worst possible scenario is on Anub'Rekhan adds in Naxxramas.

Threat can be an issue even with Salvation or Tranquil Air depending on your tanks and Mind Blast usage. This is something individual as it depends on your gear, playstyle and raid group.

I forgot to add Starshards and at the moment I can't edit the first post. Starshards is useful on Chromaggus when he's vulnerable to Arcane and on Ahn'Qiraj trash mobs (can't remember their name) when they reflect Shadow. Isn't Starshards channeling spell? If so, it is not affected by Mental Agility. I've never played Night Elf Priest so may be I'm wrong on this. Also, it's not worth using in your rotation because you will have some parts of your gear with +Shadow Damage only. Also, Starshards won't benefit from Shadowform, Darkness and Shadow Weaving percentages.

You can swap Unbreakable Will for Wand Specialization if you want but know this; once you get more than 350 Spell Power on your gear Mind Flay Rank 1 will outdps every wand in the game.

I don't find wasting 2 talent points for SIlence worth it in PvE. You have other classes to silence, interupt or otherwise disable mobs.

The specs I've linked in the first post are the most standart and optimized ones and they mostly vary depending on gear, consumables and Innervate/Mana Tide. But if you feel that you need to change something to accommodate your playstyle, go for it.

Edited by cryofsorrow

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1. Sure we can. Feel free to compile one if you feel having more Intellect outperforms having more Spell Power. I'm too lazy to work with numbers, especially when it comes to something somewhat insignificant like this.

If you somehow disagree with all this, post numbers we can work with and we'll discuss it over.

 

https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=23474&p=246913

 

https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=23474&p=246999

 

I will just leave some links here so the community knows what kind of person they are dealing with. I won't respond to you any more in this forum but I won't ignore you so I keep the entertainment value out of it.

http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/88243-bunnehs-raiding-shadowpriest-guide/?page=4

http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/84545-true-pve-shadow-priest-dps-agree-with-this-and-be-superior-or-leave-it/

http://www.wow-one.com/forum/topic/84735-killerduki-shadow-priest-guide-pve-damage-optimize-and-easy-mana-managment/

These threads actually contain really good and valuable information for anyone interested in the Shadow Priest. Of course you should ignore Killerduki's opinions about it since they are misinformed and intented to troll. There are also quite bit funny posts so don't eat while reading.

PS: Thank you for ruining another thread with your misinformed фекал.

Last message for you here unless you or someone request again my opinion.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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I swear to God, if another thread gets locked because of this back and forth carp between Killerduki and you guys.....

These are beneficial threads to the community, take these rants to private message or put each other on ignore.

That said: Why am I being dismissed mentioning a dwarf shadow priest can fear ward when needed while keeping up weaving. You can't assume all of your healers are dwarf.

All I am saying is, if a mechanic needs you to do a job, jump out of shadow and do your job. Not every class gets to dps every fight.

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I will repeat what I said before so any aspiring Shadow Priests with even an inkling of common sense will walk away informed correctly.

 

Mind Blast (rank 9) costs 350 mana. 

1 x Int = 15 mana.

This means for every Mindblast you need to get 23.3 intellect.

 

You will only benifit from this extra spell at the END of your mana pool. Before this you gain nothing from your extra mana.

 

Spell Power will make your spells deal more damage. (Duh...) Over the course of a fight you are NOT only using Mind Blast, but even if you were you would still need to be on your last 350 mana to make use of that extra 23.3 Int you stacked for it whereas your spells with Spell Power you will always be doing more damage.

 

ALSO

 

Mp5 is above Int because unlike that mana that can only be seen used at the end of your mana pool, Mp5 is constantly affecting your overall mana pool.

 

ALSO

 

+ Hit should be a no brainer but since Killerdukki thinks Int is more important than Spell Power I wouldn't be suprised if he thought Hit was also less important.

 

Missing your spells is a DIRECT and MASSIVE dps loss. Not only do you not actually damage the mob you are attacking but you LOSE the mana that you used to cast the spell. This makes hit overwhelmingly important to your overall dps.

 

ALSO...

 

The gear set get with Spell Power naturally comes with Int regardless. The exception to this will be on items like Rings and Trinkets (eg; Neltharion's TearRing of Spell Power)

 

THEREFORE:

 

Spell Hit > Spell Power > Mana per 5 sec. > Intellect > Spell Crit >= Spirit

 

Lastly:

@Killerduki, I ask that kindly do not come back to the priest threads. Your 10 years of experience is wrong (also largely irrelevant in this case), regarding stat weights. The fact that you do not stop with your constant spread of misinformation though, is what I loathe the most. A new up-and-coming Spriest that doesn't really know what's up, will look at this thread and If they just glance over it and see your textwalls they will already be disadvantaging themselves.

 

For this reason I will be putting in a request for Pottu to remove your posts from this thread.

 

Thanks.

Edited by Shayss

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People arguing for Intellect over Spell power in 2016? We did it guys! THE TRUE VANILLA EXPERIENCE!

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Your job as a Shadow Priest is to keep the debuff up, not go out of mana while still do some damage

 

 

I wonder with that +Spell Damage gear you mention how you will handle with that mana , good luck with false information to people.

 

Spirit Tap vs. Blackout - Both have little to no usage in raiding.

 

Spirit Tap

Gives you a 100% chance to gain a 100% bonus to your Spirit after killing a target that yields experience. For the duration, your Mana will regenerate at a 50% rate while casting. Lasts 15 sec.

 

This thread should die for false information.

 

PS: We might as well turn this thread into music/pictures/random stuff, it has no other purpose.

 

Or i can gladly eat popcorn reading your reactions.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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Edited the first post, added pre-raid bis items and some missing info. Let me know if something is missing.

 

So you decide to switch some useless gear when you got owned by your own spread sheet.

 

Your job as a Shadow Priest is to keep the debuff up, not go out of mana while still do some damage

And he deny that Intellect is better stat than Spell Power.

 

#pathetic

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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Pre raid BiS Weapon this guy wrote are false information .

 

Energetic Rod will result in better DPS than Blade of the New Moon and Scepter of the Unholy

 

Pre raid BiS will be Ironbark Staff

 

I wonder why would anyone bother to read this crap written on the 1st Page .

 

Shout out goes to Meledyne @ Warsong who answered every small or big question I had about shadow priests few years ago and made me understand the spec better.

lol'd , the guy was biggest noob from Work in Progress that had no clue about Shadow Priest .

 

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited by killerduki

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Guys, if you need to argue - then argue about the topic of the thread. Personal attacks do not belong here. Expressing a different opinion on a spec, rotation or piece of gear is allowed and naturally other posters can then refute that.

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Problem is, killerduki keeps spewing bullshit no matter how many people tell him that he's incorrect.

 

There's "expressing opinions" and then there's "willfully spreading misinformation".

Edited by gotmilk0112

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well it is somthing "10% of total Health regeneration may continue during combat." btw if you use Berserking just before the tank pulls it will not make the Global CD as you mention as a down side :) becaus it lasts 10 sec so you can SW:P -> Mindblast/Mindflay -> Mindblast/Mindflay ( depends on fight and then as you mentions ) it all adds up in the end :)

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Jesus Christ, people please do not listen to killerduki. He spreads misinformation and lies. In a short fight where you don't run out of mana, intellect does NOT matter. It's just fucking wasted stats that you don't need, so stack SP. On long fights, sure, stack mp/5 and int, but not fights that are 30 seconds long where you don't even go below 25% mana. Also, about the original post, it says to dot, flay, THEN trinket? On nost, the trinket proc only affects dots when they are applied, so pop the trinket right before dotting a target. Other than that, the BiS list for 1.8 is the exact same as mine and everything else looks great!

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On 11/29/2016 at 10:48 AM, cryofsorrow said:

My Priest has 144 base + 22 gear + 40 Divine Spirit + 16 Mark of the Wild + 25 Dire Maul brew = 247 Spirit excluding Zanza potion which is not used every raid. Correct me if I'm missing a buff here.
247 Spirit = 247/4 + 12.5 (according to http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Talk:Spirit ) = 74.25 (74 rounded) normal regen for 15 seconds. That's roughly 370 mana for the duration. Let's say it procs twice, that's 740 mana. Shard of the Scale regains 960 mana for the same duration and it doesn't rely on 2% chance.

Apologize for bringing up an old post (and this is very much nit-picking since I don't believe Blue Dragon is amazing), but a tick is every 2 seconds, isn't it? If that's the case, with your numbers of ~74 normal regen for 15 seconds, you should be getting ~555 mana for the duration (74 x 7.5), not 370? Obviously it'll be a bit less since you can't tick in fractions of seconds, so if we assume 7 ticks in 15 seconds, that will result in ~518 mana.

Thus, if Blue Dragon procs twice, it's already better than Shard of the Scale since that will result in ~1036 mana. If it procs 3 times, it's miles ahead of Shard of the Scale. Of course, arguably Blue Dragon is still worse due to the RNG element attached to it. Did I miss something or were your numbers off?

The reason this stood out for me was because I remember doing the math on Blue Dragon and comparing it to Shard of the Scale. On paper Blue Dragon appeared to be better, but in practice I wasn't fond of relying on the proc.

Edited by Deathlace

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