Shadow Priest Theorycraft by Killerduki

[Maxvla 0]

These were the guidelines I was given to test by Killerduki, as you can clearly see in my image link in the post with the first test results. The situation is not realistic, but the gear choices are quite possible. I would not recommend it.

 

I just put together a set of gear that has 530 spell damage, and only 9 intellect (see below). Conversely I probably wouldn't have too much trouble putting together a mostly healing based set with 500 intellect (which would not have spell damage). I do not have a list of healing gear handy as my focus is shadow priest.

 

Green Lens of Shadow Wrath +36

Jeklik's Opaline Talisman +23

Felcloth Shoulders +26

Archivist Cape of Shadow Wrath +21

Felcloth Robes +36

Rockfury Bracers +27

Felcloth Gloves +33

Sash of Whispered Secrets +33

Flarecore Leggings +43

Maleki's Footwraps +27 +9 int

Band of the Inevitable +36

Ring of Spellpower +33

Briarwood Reed +29

Neltharion's Tear +44

Arathi Basin Exalted Dagger +30

Tome of Shadow Force +34

Wand of Qiraji Nobility +19

 

= 530 dmg, 9 int

 

ps. my money would be on the toddler. they are pretty quick.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Maxvla

[Docholy 4]

That is an interesting stacking of shadow gear. Yet it overlooks the BIS gearing and it manages to just so happens to be the perfect cherry picking. I suspect Killerduki choose those to make the outcome tip to his favor.  If I didn't know better I'd say Killerducki is a feminist. 

 

 

Green Lens of Shadow Wrath +36< Spellweaver's Turban  (-3 sp, +8intellect,+8spirit)

Jeklik's Opaline Talisman +23< Orb of the Darkmoon (+8 spirit, -1sp)

I can go on. This test he had you run was just a waste a time and he was working to his outcome rather than trying to contribute a real thoerycraft.

 

Edit, 

 

I appreciate the information and stats, just sad Killerducki is using you like this.  Killerduki should be doing real theorycraft. Like if a pure +damage off hand is better than an off hand with 2 less spellpower and 8 intellect.  

Edited December 7, 2016 by Docholy

[Undertanker 88]

That is an interesting stacking of shadow gear. Yet it overlooks the BIS gearing and it manages to just so happens to be the perfect cherry picking. 

 

You do realize he chose that gear so he could do SP vs Int.......

Edited December 7, 2016 by Undertanker

[Docholy 4]

You do realize he chose that gear so he could do SP vs Int.......

Yeah of course but that is not an application that is part of the debate. The debate being is what stat weights need priority for a shadow priest. No one is stacking 500 shadow damage while adding only 9 intellect to base mana. Killerduki has taken the stat weight debate (which was never a debate before) to its extreme and wants that to be definite proof intellect > Spellpower. In that very small extreme window intellect wins, but in the real game application SP beats intellect.  

 

This is like saying "Eating 10k calories a day is a great way to save myself from starvation." That extreme statement is true but wrong is many more ways.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Docholy

[Maxvla 0]

Killerduki has taken the stat weight debate (which was never a debate before) to its extreme and wants that to be definite proof intellect > Spellpower. In that very small extreme window intellect wins 

But it doesn't. Look at the figures again. Int only wins when you don't use consumables, or you don't use consumables and you don't spec for meditation or have raid buffs. Neither of these sets of circumstances actually happen in game. 

[Undertanker 88]

But it doesn't. Look at the figures again. Int only wins when you don't use consumables, or you don't use consumables and you don't spec for meditation or have raid buffs. Neither of these sets of circumstances actually happen in game. 

 

And when the fight ends right when he says it is going to.   

[Aniel 3]

How is starshards damage compared to Mind Flay?

[cryofsorrow 5]

Mind Flay should beat Starshards on damage due to percentage bonuses from talents and debuffs. No clue on Starshards' spell coefficient though. You'll be using some items with just shadow damage bonus so it shouldn't matter much.

Edited December 7, 2016 by cryofsorrow

[killerduki 54]

How is starshards damage compared to Mind Flay?

 

Starshards 156 DPS vs Mind Flay 206 DPS with Bonuses.

Mana wasted = 58.33 per second for Star Shard vs 68.33 per second for Mind Flay

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 7, 2016 by killerduki

[Aniel 3]

Starshards 156 DPS vs Mind Flay 206 DPS with Bonuses.

Mana wasted = 58.33 per second for Star Shard vs 68.33 per second for Mind Flay

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

 

Nice, any chance to have some math with average spell power and Disci build against shadow one?

 

This must be considered:

• Starshards receives ~ 171.43 % of your bonus arcane damage.
• Like Mind Flay, this spell is a channeled damage over time effect and is therefore uncapable of a critical hit.
• Due to the fact that it Starshards is in the Arcane school, it can be cast when the priests' Shadow or Holy schools have been interrupted.
• Damage dealt is dealt similiar to a Warlock's Curse of Agony, slowly at first, and builds up as the spell reaches its full duration. For Starshards, that means for the first two ticks 15%, for the two after 20% and the final tick 30% of the total damage is dealt.
• This spell can be cast in Shadowform.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Aniel

[killerduki 54]

 

Nice, any chance to have some math with average spell power and Disci build against shadow one?

 

This must be considered:

• Starshards receives ~ 171.43 % of your bonus arcane damage.
• Like Mind Flay, this spell is a channeled damage over time effect and is therefore uncapable of a critical hit.
• Due to the fact that it Starshards is in the Arcane school, it can be cast when the priests' Shadow or Holy schools have been interrupted.
• Damage dealt is dealt similiar to a Warlock's Curse of Agony, slowly at first, and builds up as the spell reaches its full duration. For Starshards, that means for the first two ticks 15%, for the two after 20% and the final tick 30% of the total damage is dealt.
• This spell can be cast in Shadowform.

 

 

Sorry dude , i don't have any theory , neither i created any theory about any other spec or class except Shadow Priest dps

 

Probably other folks can help you about that , except if you don't try to give me some more info about it so we can work together and give a shot .

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 7, 2016 by killerduki

[Aniel 3]

Sorry dude , i don't have any theory , neither i created any theory about any other spec or class except Shadow Priest dps

 

Probably other folks can help you about that , except if you don't try to give me some more info about it so we can work together and give a shot .

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

I wish there was a PTR for these things, during the few hours we been level 60 I made some priest chars and I found out several bugs.

 

However, I think I gave you all the info. What is average priest spell damage at 60? 300? It should be fine for some math.

 

SS:

-936 base damage (6 sec)

-300 Arcane Spell power: 171.43% for whole duration it is 514 more damage

 

1450 damage over whole duration.

[killerduki 54]

I wish there was a PTR for these things, during the few hours we been level 60 I made some priest chars and I found out several bugs.

 

However, I think I gave you all the info. What is average priest spell damage at 60? 300? It should be fine for some math.

 

SS:

-936 base damage (6 sec)

-300 Arcane Spell power: 171.43% for whole duration it is 514 more damage

 

1450 damage over whole duration.

 

Well you talk about  starshards dps only , need huge info like mana per holy spells , cast time on holy spells , what kind of spells you willing to use, rotation etc.

 

In your case about Starshards : 241.666 DPS you will do for 291 Mp5 and 300 Arcane Spell Power (infinite duration).

 

Over 240 seconds : 14 000 Mana need in order to do 241.666 dps with 300 Arcane Spell Power.

 

To survive with 240 seconds shooting starshards based on Intellect (disable Mp5 or any mana regen) you need over 935 Intellect .

 

935 Intellect or 291 Mp5 or (Balance)mix between those stats you need in order to survive with mana, giving maximum outcome from 300 Arcane Spell Damage that will do over 241.666 DPS output (according to your coefficient) over 240 Seconds.

 

This was written excluding "Base Stats" from Character.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 7, 2016 by killerduki

[cryofsorrow 5]

coefficients

mind flay: 0.45

starshards: 1.71

300 shadow damage = 135(spellcoefficient) damage to mind flay

300 spell damage = 513(spell coefficient) damage to starshards

mind flay:

(426base+135sp)*1.4(darkness,shadowform,shadowweaving)=785.4 mind flay damage over 3 seconds(261.8tick)

x2 =1570.8 mind flay damage over 6 seconds(261.8tick)

starshards:

936base + 513 = 1449 starshards damage over 6 seconds(241.5tick)

And once you get above 300 shadow/spell damage, the difference grows even bigger and that's not even counting curses, nightfall, etc. debuffs.

Starshards is useful for it's arcane damage and if you're conserving mana because it costs 60 mana less than 2xMind Flay. Other than that, sadly, no.

Edited December 7, 2016 by cryofsorrow

[Aniel 3]

Darkness increase base damage, not damaged added with spell power... or not?

[killerduki 54]

Darkness increase base damage, not damaged added with spell power... or not?

Not sure if it is bugged in server or not , but it should increase base damage+spell damage.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[Theloras 108]

so what was the final consensus from the spread sheet testing?

[cryofsorrow 5]

Bottom line: Intellect doesn't outperform Spell Power in any way. That's what this thread was all about.

[killerduki 54]

Bottom line: Intellect doesn't outperform Spell Power in any way. That's what this thread was all about.

 

It does, proven even on his own spread sheet.

 

14. Discussion with ones who disapproving and crusading my Formula calling me wrong or spreading miss information thru Discord and this Topic, he went to test it out with his own Spread Sheet written :

 

1.

 

2.

 

3.

 

4.

 

Now conversation regarding the DPS increased thanks to 3 Pieces T2 and thanks to Mind Blast :

 

5.

 

6.

 

7.

 

135.xxx damage versus 119.xxx damage thanks to T2 and Mind Blast .

 

8.

 

Oh , snap shot  ^^^^^^^^^ .

 

9.

 

10.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 8, 2016 by killerduki

[davfer 0]

You apparently really have an issue understanding english or real applications of theorycrafting. While he did the theorycraft to your specifications, that isn't a realistic scenario so it was a cherry picked version of an impossible and improbable scenario. You can not realistically believe that someone is going to have 500 spell dmg and 0 int on gear in progression raiding, it just isnt the natural gear progression

 

To reiterate Look at the figures again. Int only wins when you don't use consumables, or you don't use consumables and you don't spec for meditation or have raid buffs. Neither of these sets of circumstances actually happen in game. 

 

Re-read your point 9. That in no way proves that int directly outweighs spell power. All it proves is that there is an interaction between the 2 and that you can not theorycraft in that way to prove anything. It is an absolute extreme circumstance that would not occur.

Edited December 8, 2016 by davfer

[killerduki 54]

You apparently really have an issue understanding english or real applications of theorycrafting. While he did the theorycraft to your specifications, that isn't a realistic scenario so it was a cherry picked version of an impossible and improbable scenario. You can not realistically believe that someone is going to have 500 spell dmg and 0 int on gear in progression raiding, it just isnt the natural gear progression

 

To reiterate Look at the figures again. Int only wins when you don't use consumables, or you don't use consumables and you don't spec for meditation or have raid buffs. Neither of these sets of circumstances actually happen in game. 

 

Re-read your point 9. That in no way proves that int directly outweighs spell power. All it proves is that there is an interaction between the 2 and that you can not theorycraft in that way to prove anything. It is an absolute extreme circumstance that would not occur.

 

1- The cherry picked version was to compare Spell Damage versus Intellect which provide us clear picture which stat overweight and is stronger one for X duration of fight , this clearly proved Intellect > Spell Damage.

 

2- If you read my Note number 12, it says : - Keep in mind that you don't need full amount of Intellect or Mp5 explained if you combine it together, you need to find your own Balance between both.

 

3- my point 9 was explanation how much mana you need for the X duration of fight , nothing specific .

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[davfer 0]

Just wow. Again that isn't a realistic way to theorycraft. It is quite baffling that you refuse to acknowledge this is an extremely flawed way to theorycraft.

As some other people have stated take a gear list then compare the additions of 1 sp vs 1 intellect and then compare that would give you a more accurate idea of stat weighting. The whole notion that someone is going to walk into a raid with all +shadow dmg gear with no int is laughable. 

[Maxvla 0]

Killerduki won't even acknowledge when his own test parameters resulted in spellpower being superior to intellect. He keeps posting images from our conversation that actually support my position, and says they support his. I guess he thinks that if he keeps saying it's true that he believes it will become true. Math doesn't change just because you want it to. Every time he links them, I just see proof I'm right on every point, and it's funny.

[Docholy 4]

I have to give it to killerduki he is like a pitbull and wont let go.  Duki you should've stopped after your win with "HOLY RESIST" and you would've been able to ride that wave for some time. Now your dragging your name around like its a son of a cucked marriage. 

[killerduki 54]

I have to give it to killerduki he is like a pitbull and wont let go.  Duki you should've stopped after your win with "HOLY RESIST" and you would've been able to ride that wave for some time. Now your dragging your name around like its a son of a cucked marriage. 

 

Only because they like to keep their "Famous" one-sided opinion doesn't make them correct , there is no win or victory , there is correct or incorrect behavior.

Did Intellect shown better than Spell Damage? Yes it did and that is fact.

Does Intellect boost value of Spell Damage? Yes it does and that is fact.

 

I play 10 years Protection Paladin and Shadow Priest and for your or their unfortunate , those are the only 2 Class and Spec i played for that long time.

Just to remind that this situation is very similar like i used to be at beginning when i first time mention "Holy Resistance" and "Paladin Tanking".

The only difference is , i didn't had enough time to reach my shadow priest lvl 60 while i was focused on my Paladin because server went down.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 8, 2016 by killerduki