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Definitive Warlock Guide

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New to the vanilla so am I really need to upgrade my demonology talents after SM? Mainly I'm talking about DS. Is it good for farming gold after i reach level 60? Don't you think SM/Ruin is more viable or I'm wrong because on high levels Void can't take as much aggro as he would take with Imp Void?
English is not my first language, sorry

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On 6/1/2017 at 4:40 PM, Xashe said:

imp drain soul is a literal cornerstone of leveling a lock. 

I don't see it. I've tried it in the past and I tried it again this time, and the fact of the matter is that I can barely spend my mana anyway even without it. There are just no situations where I need a bunch of extra mana regen. Are you leveling by spam-SBing mobs or something? I sit at basically full mana 90% of the time when leveling a warlock, and there aren't enough mobs in this kind of environment to consistently pull two or three at a time, nor is that sustainable in terms of pet health/mana.

The only thing I ever wait for is pet mana and mob respawns. There has simply never been a situation where I needed a bunch of extra mana regen after killing a mob. Meanwhile, for large parts of the leveling process, the relationship between mob health and your own damage is such that dots frequently run out just before the mob dies and you deal the last 5-10% with wand and pet attacks. In all of those cases, finishing the mob off with just Drain Soul is unrealistic unless you re-apply dots, negating the mana gain.

Imp. Drain Soul is just not even slightly close to necessary. It wouldn't speed my leveling up at all, and the need for calling off your pet and stopping your wanding in order to Drain Soul at the end makes for an awkward rhythm compared to just continuing the wanding. Drain Soul still costs mana, takes additional time, and you or your pet will take more hits while finishing a mob in this fashion, so any hypothetical advantage is mitigated by these things. The added hassle isn't worth it, and the talent is also worthless in groups and PvP, further solidifying its superfluousness.

When I pull a mob with dots and send the pet, and wand until the mob is dead, I'm back to full mana by the time it's dead. If there's a second mob, I fear+dot that at the same time and Lifetap once after the fight to get back the extra mana that it cost to do that, which Demon Armor's regeneration easily sustains. If I pull three mobs, I can have the pet hit the third one once and tank it, but there are never enough mobs anywhere to do this more than every once in a while, which puts no real stress on my own mana balance over the course of a quest or grind session. Even so, it's nothing that isn't handled with one or two taps after the fight.

The only downtime I ever have is my pet's mana, and finding mobs. Why would I put two points into a talent that does essentially nothing for me? It certainly isn't a crucial talent to the extent where condescending remarks are warranted for people who opt out of it. You still haven't seemed to provide a reason more compelling than "it's necessary and you're stupid for thinking otherwise."

Edited by Larsen

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Shadoweave gear is very much worth getting, just probably not the full set. The shoulders and legs have stamina on them, and gloves and boots are generally low-stat slots while leveling so you can wear these as well without missing out on an unreasonable amount of health.

You probably want to wear the quested Bloodrobe or some similar 'of the Eagle' thing most of the way through, as well as a stamina headpiece since head is a high-stat slot. The rest of the Shadoweave pieces are worthwhile, you're missing out on something like 10-20 stamina compared to whatever random quest rewards you'd have worn instead. Doesn't make any real difference.

Having a good bit of spell power means you save your pet a fair amount of mana by finishing mobs off one Torment cycle earlier than normal. What else are you gonna wear in these slots? The alternative is green 'of the X' crap that does literally nothing for your leveling speed. The Shadoweave items will last you until 60 and ease your transition into high-end dungeons.

Edited by Larsen

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Mana isn't an issue at low levels but if you're full mana while grinding at levels 28+ you are killing much slower than you could be. DOTs plus wand gets surpassed by DOTs plus shadowbolt and then having improved drain soul makes a big difference.

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5 hours ago, Larsen said:

Having a good bit of spell power means you save your pet a fair amount of mana by finishing mobs off one Torment cycle earlier than normal

So are you going with the VW rather than the succubus? Is Improved VW worth it, then?

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Most people still go the standard VW build. That's what I was referring to. With the drain build, I use succubus or sometimes felhunter if I'm grinding mobs that cast annoying spells or use debuffs I want to purge.

If you use VW, you have to have the talents. It can't hold aggro at all without them. Even with, it'll struggle a lot and you'll take aggro every time it gets a resist on Torment or you get a couple of wand crits in succession. With this build, the most you can really do is put up dots and then wand, if you want your pet to hold aggro at all, so there's a hard limit to how fast you can kill things unless you want to be tanking half the time.

The biggest issue with the VW build is pet mana. You can't really do anything about that. Non-stop grinding isn't possible with this build unless you want to alternate between VW-tanking and fear-kiting when pet is OOM, or just accepting that you tank the last 30-50% of every other mob. Plus you'll need to manually use pet taunt or else it'll waste a bunch of its mana taunting mobs that are at 5% health and stuff like that.

SB-spam is pointless. Until you have real caster gear and 21 points in destruction, SB damage is fairly crap. Drain Life does similar damage per mana, heals you, and you can get 70% pushback protection for DL. The drain spec does more or less the same as SB-spam but you have unlimited mana, heal yourself to full constantly, and never have to worry about pet aggro or mana. It kills a bit faster than dots+wand and about the same speed as unspecced SB-spam, but SB-spam means you take aggro and there's no pushback protection for SB. That turns your SB into a 5 second cast when you're getting beat on, and you'll take damage that you aren't automatically healing back.

I just did a 40-42 grind session yesterday where I literally never stopped killing. I never used a bandage, never had to eat or drink, never had to wait for pet mana or anything at all. Didn't have to micromanage pet abilities or pay any attention to aggro. All spells instant or with pushback protection. With some spell power from Shadoweave pieces and the quest offhand, Corruption ticks for like 75 and Drain Life for 60ish damage (and healing) per second, which is about twice as much damage as wanding.

Edited by Larsen

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Playing correctly, voidwalker never loses aggro with improved void, he generally doesn't run out of mana (this is pretty hard to play properly, but totally doable). 

Mana regen on your end directly influences how much mana your voidwalker needs to spend and therefore how much time you wait for the pet to regen, that's why drain soul is super important at higher level.

Early levels, you're slowing down by level 17 without Drain Soul, I tried it out on the relaunch of Nostalrius and by 17 I was losing seconds on every single mob I pulled.

The gap without drain soul gets bigger and bigger as you level without.

I give up on you guys as well, drain tanking is not even close to the killspeed OR safety the voidwalker build gives you. 

Voidwalker shield often gives you more than you actually have in health lasting 30 seconds, there's multiple scenarios where you'll simply kill people that try to gank you before they even break through the void shield. 2v1's and 3v1's are totally winnable, as long as it's relatively even in level and you've got health and mana and a soulstone. Voidwalker shield is simply OP.

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Hello,

First time ever rolling Warlock, I know this guide will be invaluable to me. Thank you for taking the time to create it, I really appreciate it.

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If you choose to go the Drain Soul route I recommend modifying the page 1 macro to look like this: 

/script if UnitExists("pettarget") and UnitIsUnit("target", "pettarget") then PetFollow("YOURNAMEHERE") end;
/cast Drain Soul(Rank 1)
/run local a=GetBagName(4); if a=="Core Felcloth Bag" or a=="Felcloth Bag" or a=="Soul Pouch" or a=="Box of Souls" or a=="Small Soul Pouch" then PickupContainerItem(4,GetContainerNumSlots(4)) DeleteCursorItem() else end

This will pull your VW off the mob right before you drain soul, guaranteeing you the killing blow which is necessary for the talent to proc. If you're fighting 2+ mobs and your VW is attacking a different mob from the one you are about to cast drain soul on, it will stay on that mob.

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Reading other guides, I picked Tailoring / Enchanting, but now I'm wondering if I should drop enchanting, since it's very expensive and so on.

Any advices? Should I take engineering instead?

Thanks.

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22 hours ago, Nexus_Roy said:

Reading other guides, I picked Tailoring / Enchanting, but now I'm wondering if I should drop enchanting, since it's very expensive and so on.

Any advices? Should I take engineering instead?

Thanks.

don't focus on your enchanting, focus on your tailoring. you can DE your tailoring crafts for mats to lvl your enchanting. 

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3 hours ago, Xashe said:

don't focus on your enchanting, focus on your tailoring. you can DE your tailoring crafts for mats to lvl your enchanting. 

I'll do that, thanks.

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I love the disgustingly elitist "I give up on you all!" because some people have a different opinion, backed up by extensive examples against nothing but "this is the best, you suck if you don't think so." Really shows you what some people are like. You don't even try to explain what it is you think somehow makes it so that you kill faster and avoid pet mana/aggro issues. Just insult everyone who doesn't have the same opinion as yours.

Even specced for VW aggro (an investment of eight talent points that otherwise do basically nothing for your leveling efficiency), the VW can't hold aggro from anything beyond two dots and wand. It cannot maintain its mana when chain-grinding mobs, it's a self-evident fact. Even if you have it stop taunting when the mob is at 30%, it'll run out of mana after like five back-to-back fights. The drain spec lets you use full dots if you want, plus the significantly higher DPS of draining over wanding, and you have unlimited health and mana plus you never have to worry about pet aggro. Nobody has yet provided any actual arguments for how the VW route is "much faster."

Besides, even on a server of this population, getting ganked while grinding happens relatively rarely in most areas. Maybe three times on the way to 60 have I been in a situation where having the VW out instead of succubus would have made any difference at all. If you're not an idiot trying to grind in STV, you just don't get ganked often enough for it to be a serious issue. Succubus saved me several times as well in situations like higher-levels ganking where VW shield would have done nothing more than make it take five seconds longer to die.

I tried speccing VW at 55 because I was bored, and it was terrible in comparison. Kills were slower and I had downtime between mobs because of pet mana. Dots would run out when mobs were at like 15% hp and I'd have to re-dot in order to get the kill with drain soul. Specced back to dark pact drain after half a level, I see nothing in the VW spec that makes it better for leveling.

Edited by Larsen

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8 hours ago, Larsen said:

I love the disgustingly elitist "I give up on you all!" because some people have a different opinion, backed up by extensive examples against nothing but "this is the best, you suck if you don't think so." Really shows you what some people are like. You don't even try to explain what it is you think somehow makes it so that you kill faster and avoid pet mana/aggro issues. Just insult everyone who doesn't have the same opinion as yours.

Even specced for VW aggro (an investment of eight talent points that otherwise do basically nothing for your leveling efficiency), the VW can't hold aggro from anything beyond two dots and wand. It cannot maintain its mana when chain-grinding mobs, it's a self-evident fact. Even if you have it stop taunting when the mob is at 30%, it'll run out of mana after like five back-to-back fights. The drain spec lets you use full dots if you want, plus the significantly higher DPS of draining over wanding, and you have unlimited health and mana plus you never have to worry about pet aggro. Nobody has yet provided any actual arguments for how the VW route is "much faster."

Besides, even on a server of this population, getting ganked while grinding happens relatively rarely in most areas. Maybe three times on the way to 60 have I been in a situation where having the VW out instead of succubus would have made any difference at all. If you're not an idiot trying to grind in STV, you just don't get ganked often enough for it to be a serious issue. Succubus saved me several times as well in situations like higher-levels ganking where VW shield would have done nothing more than make it take five seconds longer to die.

I tried speccing VW at 55 because I was bored, and it was terrible in comparison. Kills were slower and I had downtime between mobs because of pet mana. Dots would run out when mobs were at like 15% hp and I'd have to re-dot in order to get the kill with drain soul. Specced back to dark pact drain after half a level, I see nothing in the VW spec that makes it better for leveling.

I'm mid 40's and about to craft a couple pieces of Shadoweave and I'm definitely going to switch over to your build and give it a try.  My only issue comes with gankers, as I am Ally, and the Undead problem with WoTF.  But for every other race of horde players, it sounds pretty feasible.  I'm quite honestly bored to death with the basic VW dot+wand build because you are definitely correct that you are always waiting for the VW to regenerate mana for Torment on the next mob.  I'm not LAZY either but I really don't think I should have to put my pet Torment on manual and use it sparingly to be vigilant about his mana usage.  It's just a pain in the ass and not worth doing,

Edited by delita1

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Larsen-

How gear dependent is your build, would you say? You made me a believer in your build so I leveled with it. However, I thought it was really lacking with my gear (no spell power). DP costs a GCD and restores ~160 mana when you get it (150 base plus SM bonus), and that is way too little. Each cast barely covers each DoT's mana cost. When mobs are spread apart it's fine because I have time to spend GCDs on DP while running, but in all other cases I'm spending so many GCDs recovering mana and not dealing damage.

Another thing, wands are better than Drain Life for DPS until 38+. Before then I don't see the value in even using Drain Life, let alone Drain Tanking and spending 10 talent points buffing DL when you can wand instead for MORE dmg and more resources (via spirit regen). Drain tanking is also underwhelming without spell power, since you lose so much efficiency when you take damage. Even in the 40s and 50s, I found that using Fear was more valuable for efficiency if it saved me 2-3 hits, and using 175 mana to cast a spell that does no dmg didn't feel good either.

FWIW, I plan on leveling another warlock and this time I will be going Imp VW+Imp DS until at least 40 something when I can have some Shadoweave pieces to complement Drain Tanking and support DP. It makes sense on paper that you should dump your VW once he can't keep threat from you.

Edited by thendcomes
Unclear

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It's pretty minor overall and I think using whatever spec you enjoy most is the way to go. You could pick talents totally randomly as a warlock and still level easier than most classes after all.

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So I've been using the recommended method of grinding, and it works pretty decently, but the one issue I've been consistently running into is that I rarely have issues with mana myself, but my voidwalker is always oom after a few mobs, because he needs to be constantly using torment to keep up aggro.

 

Is there something I'm missing? Should I be doing something else?

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I tried using the Chronometer addon that was suggested but the DoT timers won't disappear even after the mob is dead. The /chron kill command doesn't seem to fix it either. 

Is this working for someone else?

Edited by Nanuk

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2 hours ago, looper said:

for pvp minded lock, what profs to take? minning/eng? 

Eng+whatever really. Eng+BS if you want to be super tryhard I guess.

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Eng is amazing with nets reflectors and other fun items. My warlock is a eng/alc I love to have swiftness potions arcane elixirs Shadow damage potions wildvine potions free action potions. The eng net trinket with swiftness potions have saved my warlock a good 100+ times.

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Are the Sunken Temple class quests in the game on any of the servers?  I'm on Darrowshire and did the prerequisite to get my sweet scythe, but the imp won't give me any more quests

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