Need Critique on my DKP System I Created.

[Tickles 0]

TLDR: Its clear people arent reading this. Its not very complicated. 

1. You earn points for showing up and killing bosses. Duh. 

 

2. If you really want the item that drops (or dont want to leave it to chance), you choose to spend your points. Person with most wins, then goes 'to the back of the line'.

 

3. If you dont really want the item, or would rather save your points for something more important, then you /roll.

 

 

The Philosophy behind this “Rolling DKP” system is that everyone in the raid who helped kill a boss should have a chance at obtaining the loot. Be it your 1^st kill with the guild, or your 10^th. Every person should feel they were needed, participated, and have the ability to be rewarded. Often other loot systems reward too heavily players who have been there longer, thus leaving new players or fill in players with the feeling they are just there for others to get loot.

The following is the system that will carry out this philosophy with the least amount of inflation, manipulation and favor, but will still allow the consistent player to have a slight edge over the new player and get that last piece of tier they need, or that one weapon they really want.

 

·         Raiders show up on time – They are awarded 1 DKP.

·         Raiders kill a boss – They are awarded 1 DKP. (after loot is distributed)

·         Raiders stay till the end of the raid - They are awarded 1 DKP.

·         Items that drop are posted in Raid Chat – “Everyone who wants [EPIC ITEM] roll now.”

·         Raiders who want the item* will roll “/roll 100”.

        *items that your class can use for raiding. Exceptions are on a case by case basis.

 

At this point there is a decision to make. A player can either roll “/roll 100” or they can ‘use their points to win the item’.

·         Raiders with the highest roll 1-100 will win. Or a player wishes to “/roll [points]”.

·         The Raider (Raiders) want to spend their points. The simplest way to communicate this is by “/roll (100+points)” For example a player might have 21 points saved, so they roll “/roll 121”

·         Raiders who do not want to spend their points will be indicated by rolling “1-100”

·         The Master Looter will check the notes to verify points, and award the person with the highest roll OR the person who is rolling for points with the highest total.

EXAMPLE CHAT: Both PlayerD and PlayerE wanted to spend points on the item. PlayerD who rolled a 13 wins because they are 1: spending their points, 2: have the most total points.

Master Looter Yells: Everyone who wants [EPIC ITEM] roll now.

PlayerA rolls 1-100: 81

PlayerB rolls 1-100: 21

PlayerC rolls 1-100: 34

PlayerD rolls 1-121: 13

PlayerE rolls 1-114: 99

PlayerF rolls 1-100: 67

·         In the event of a tie for points a simple 1-100 roll between the players will determine who will win.

·         The winner of the [EPIC ITEM] will spend all their points and be reduced to 0.

 

The implications of this will be that Consistent Raiders will save their points for the item they REALLY want, and will allow everyone at a shot at most of the loot. Or Raiders will be spending their points every fight and a “hierarchy or line” will start to appear as loot winners are reset to 0 every fight.

 

Raiders usually enter the raid with the hope that [EPIC ITEM] will drop, when it does they will use their points to win the item, the only way they would lose that [EPIC ITEM] they really wanted to another Raider, is if that raider ALSO was saving their points for that item but had more! After that player has spent their points, they “get to the back of the line”, they are still welcome to roll on every piece of gear and even spend their 1 or 2 points if they so choose. Like every system, an economy of points and rolls will begin to emerge. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Tickles

[Vaccine 1]

My main critique is that you're using dkp.

[Tickles 0]

My main critique is that you're using dkp.

Found the communist. 

[Roxy 8]

Its too random to be fair really.

Dkp is mostly usen in high amounts when a rare item drops

You got 2 people with equal attendance, one rolls 100 the other rolls 50.

They have both earned the item by long time commitment to the guild, but one needs to spend many times as much dkp to get the rare item.

This is not fair. At least not with the values you posted there, due to a had roll will require months of farming content to get close to the other guy with a good roll

If you want it to be decent, you need to up the values on the dkp gained so that the roll is of lower importance.

Which then you could just use regular dkp

[Danko 1]

Do people still take raiding this serious in a 10+ year old game?

[Storfan 24]

Maybe im dull or maybe your systems is simply too complex but I couldnt find any answer to this:

 

 

The main problems that often has to be adressed with DKP-systems are these:

 

1. Will there be any class/role restrictions on certain items? Would a hunter be able to grab a [Drake Fang Talisman] over Rogues/furies? Will a fury warrior be able to grab an [Elementium Reinforced Bulwark] over a tank? If yes = Bad.

 

2. What is players stares themselves blind on one perticular upgrade and thus discard any other upgrades in order to save up DKP?

 

On a personal note, I find that Lootcouncil, or a mix of DKP+Lootcouncil often tend to work out best. 

[Tickles 0]

Maybe im dull or maybe your systems is simply too complex but I couldnt find any answer to this:

 

 

The main problems that often has to be adressed with DKP-systems are these:

 

1. Will there be any class/role restrictions on certain items? Would a hunter be able to grab a [Drake Fang Talisman] over Rogues/furies? Will a fury warrior be able to grab an [Elementium Reinforced Bulwark] over a tank? If yes = Bad.

 

2. What is players stares themselves blind on one perticular upgrade and thus discard any other upgrades in order to save up DKP?

 

On a personal note, I find that Lootcouncil, or a mix of DKP+Lootcouncil often tend to work out best. 

The 3 times I have participated in lootcouncil I have been ваууed over with 100% attendance. Never again. 

Class restrictions are put on a case by case basis, hopefuly a Raider will have asked before hand and allowed the officers to agree.

 

Complex? You roll or spend your points. Not complex at all. People who are spending their time in the game should be alowed to get items they want. Always. Thats my belief. Im not a communist. The "need of the many" crap doesnt appeal to me.  

Edited December 12, 2016 by Tickles

[Tickles 0]

Its too random to be fair really.

Dkp is mostly usen in high amounts when a rare item drops

You got 2 people with equal attendance, one rolls 100 the other rolls 50.

They have both earned the item by long time commitment to the guild, but one needs to spend many times as much dkp to get the rare item.

This is not fair. At least not with the values you posted there, due to a had roll will require months of farming content to get close to the other guy with a good roll

If you want it to be decent, you need to up the values on the dkp gained so that the roll is of lower importance.

Which then you could just use regular dkp

Fair point, regular DKP causes inflation, and screws new commers. On a non-retial server, new commers are almost a guarantee. 

Two people with equal attendance should be random. And once the person wins, the other will have an advantage by default. 

Many items people dont want, or care about, this allows new people or fill ins to obtain some. 

I used something this in ZG with my guild in vanilla, it worked flawless. Everyone got what they wanted, and people got gear. Even the people who filled in. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Tickles

[Faith 5]

My main critique is that you're using dkp.

I really dislike DKP. Sorry.

 

(um.. faith.. THAT"S A 50 DKP MINUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

[Tickles 0]

Do people still take raiding this serious in a 10+ year old game?

Its no the taking serious of it, its the valuing of peoples time. Just want it to be fair. 

[Roxy 8]

Do people still take raiding this serious in a 10+ year old game?

This is not retail where you can get a full set of epics within an hour.

In vanilla, items are earned by activity and commitment to your guild,

Here you can go months without getting a single item, that is why systems are made to reward those who are active

[Stormhart 12]

It still can be influenced by favouritism, the master looter simply can award his favourite pal more DKP. Unless the document of gained DKP per player is publicly available.

[Faith 5]

Maybe im dull or maybe your systems is simply too complex but I couldnt find any answer to this: I agree with this.

 

 

The main problems that often has to be adressed with DKP-systems are these:

 

1. Will there be any class/role restrictions on certain items? Would a hunter be able to grab a [Drake Fang Talisman] over Rogues/furies? Will a fury warrior be able to grab an [Elementium Reinforced Bulwark] over a tank? If yes = Bad.

 

2. What is players stares themselves blind on one perticular upgrade and thus discard any other upgrades in order to save up DKP?

 

On a personal note, I find that Lootcouncil, or a mix of DKP+Lootcouncil often tend to work out best. <-- If I raid in Vanilla (that's a big if) then this I also agree with.

[Roxy 8]

That is why i reccomend a epgp system. The inflation take care of itself with a 10% decay every raid. And recent activity is more imporant than the guy that stocked up on tons of dkp 4 months ago

[Tickles 0]

It still can be influenced by favouritism, the master looter simply can award his favourite pal more DKP. Unless the document of gained DKP per player is publicly available.

DKP is stored in Guild Note. Available to see by all at any time in game. 

 

Maybe im dull or maybe your systems is simply too complex but I couldnt find any answer to this: I agree with this.

 

 

The main problems that often has to be adressed with DKP-systems are these:

 

1. Will there be any class/role restrictions on certain items? Would a hunter be able to grab a [Drake Fang Talisman] over Rogues/furies? Will a fury warrior be able to grab an [Elementium Reinforced Bulwark] over a tank? If yes = Bad.

 

2. What is players stares themselves blind on one perticular upgrade and thus discard any other upgrades in order to save up DKP?

 

On a personal note, I find that Lootcouncil, or a mix of DKP+Lootcouncil often tend to work out best. <-- If I raid in Vanilla (that's a big if) then this I also agree with.

 

"Need a Critique"

Faith: "I dont like this"

[Shayss 43]

Never ever ever use a /roll system.

 

Trust me, I have been in guid with this kind of setup. People do not like losing rolls. It means you are losing due to bad luck.

 

With a standard DKP system, people accept that they won't get all loot since they are "purchasing" an item and other will have more "funds" than them sometimes.

 

With Loot Council, the items are given to players. It is being dealt with by the LC and is taken out of the hands of the player. The player accepts not getting everything they want because there needs to be an effective spead as dealt with by the LC.

 

In the end, all loot systems are susceptible to corruption, you just have to choose one that works for your guild.

[Tickles 0]

Never ever ever use a /roll system.

 

Trust me, I have been in guid with this kind of setup. People do not like losing rolls. It means you are losing due to bad luck.

 

With a standard DKP system, people accept that they won't get all loot since they are "purchasing" an item and other will have more "funds" than them sometimes.

 

With Loot Council, the items are given to players. It is being dealt with by the LC and is taken out of the hands of the player. The player accepts not getting everything they want because there needs to be an effective spead as dealt with by the LC.

 

In the end, all loot systems are susceptible to corruption, you just have to choose one that works for your guild.

LC is by far the MOST corrupt of all the systems. Thank you for your input I will never use LC. 

If you DONT want to lose to a roll then you use your points. "The only way a Raider can lose on spending their points, is by someone who has more points." And by default that means that person has saved longer than you. Period. 

[Tickles 0]

Did anyone actually read the System? 

 

 

Item that 3 people want. They dont want to lose due to bad luck. They use points. Person with highest points wins. They go to 'back of the line'. Duh. 

Item that no one really wants, everyone rolls. Person wins. No one cares. Duh. 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Tickles

[Shayss 43]

LC is by far the MOST corrupt of all the systems. Thank you for your input I will never use LC.

 

Loool. No? LC is probably the best.

 

So many corrupted DKP фекал out there.

 

Hells, even Nihilum suffered from corrupted dkp xD

[Tickles 0]

Loool. No? LC is probably the best.

 

So many corrupted DKP фекал out there.

 

Hells, even Nihilum suffered from corrupted dkp xD

You cant corrupt a line. Once you spend points, you get to the back of the line. How can you corrupt that? (this is why I posted this.)

[gotmilk0112 10]

It still can be influenced by favouritism, the master looter simply can award his favourite pal more DKP. Unless the document of gained DKP per player is publicly available.

I've never seen a DKP system where everyone's current amount was not publicly viewable.

[Shayss 43]

You cant corrupt a line. Once you spend points, you get to the back of the line. How can you corrupt that? (this is why I posted this.)

 

1 name: Awake

 

Have fun with that, it's actually insane.

[Athena 3]

I've never seen a DKP system where everyone's current amount was not publicly viewable.

 

Which could still have false data that nobody would see.

 

Any system but lootcouncil is for crybabies. If you care about loot while your entire raiding squad is going to be fully geared before new content comes out, you have to be a Legion snob joining the Vanilla is cool bandwagon... 

[Roxy 8]

You cant corrupt a line. Once you spend points, you get to the back of the line. How can you corrupt that? (this is why I posted this.)

 

The corruption come from the dkp master when he awards points, he can award more points to his best buddy.

But that is not a problem with YOUR dkp system, that is a problem of every loot system, with the exception of pure /roll. cause thats only rng.

 

The problem with your system is the randomness being to important. 

 

for a full MC run you will get 12 dkp

If you had a roll of 50 and this other guy had a roll of 100, you will need to spend  4 weeks worth of dkp just to get equal to that guy with a lucky roll.

 

That is incredible demotivating to your unlucky raider 

Edited December 12, 2016 by Roxy

[Faith 5]

DKP is stored in Guild Note. Available to see by all at any time in game. 

"Need a Critique"

Faith: "I dont like this"

Well, I don't.

 

Personally I feel that , like a lot of things done by young gamers, this has been overly thought out. I feel it's too complex. I feel that a good guild leader can easily take personal notes in a spreadsheet to keep track of attendance. I feel that most guilds are too large. I feel that raiders are given too much opportunity to fak up.

 

You want my opinion. Dump the system. Manage your guild to be a tightly run ship. Allow casuals in the guild but have a core raiding team with dedicated players who show up more than 75% of the time. (Because everyone has RL and some things can prevent you from attending 100%. I don't feel that the guy who showed up 4 times vs the guy who showed up 3 times but had to spend time with his son should be penalized.

 

You want my CRITIQUE??

 

Get in control of your guild. Evaluate. Recruit responsibly. Be kind, be considerate, and most importantly of all Have fun.

 

  ~ Faith ~

Edited December 12, 2016 by Faith