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Theloras

Paladin Bug Compendium

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the bug report is still available for viewing on why judgement stacking was removed and never was intended to do so by blizzard.

records show up to wrath of the lich king on what occurred after the 1.8 "fix" by blizzard. the only remaining carcass of it was a visual bug clogging the debuff limit that gave 0 benefit which only occurred when 2 paladins judged JOTC at the same time. there were records showing no other judgement stacked off itself after 1.8 in every single alliance kill video.

im sorry, but the evidence of 1000+ videos spanning from vanilla, through TBC, and even wotlk show otherwise. not an illogical "opinion" of someone who thinks it does.

 

Best Regards,

Imbaslap

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On 9/26/2017 at 5:29 PM, Imbaslap said:

the bug report is still available for viewing on why judgement stacking was removed and never was intended to do so by blizzard.

records show up to wrath of the lich king on what occurred after the 1.8 "fix" by blizzard. the only remaining carcass of it was a visual bug clogging the debuff limit that gave 0 benefit which only occurred when 2 paladins judged JOTC at the same time. there were records showing no other judgement stacked off itself after 1.8 in every single alliance kill video.

im sorry, but the evidence of 1000+ videos spanning from vanilla, through TBC, and even wotlk show otherwise. not an illogical "opinion" of someone who thinks it does.

The bugreport was locked to provide further evidence for that, which is why lot of them are not even there.

There was no Visual Bug through TBC and this was proven via Video where between 1st and 2nd mob there is difference with Damage doing.

Your "visual bug is based off garbage theory unproven" , neither any of your 1000+ Videos have any Paladin trying to do it in order to disapprove it.

In fact there are even more evidence where JoW did also work even thru TBC all the way up to WotLK where a person says he did it on his own tests.

What did you provide as evidence to claim the removal post 1.8 Patch ? There was no fix , it's pure assumption where you try to disclaim and deny the evidence given opposite of you.

On 9/26/2017 at 5:21 PM, Imbaslap said:

learn to write a proper bug report and ill stop commenting.

it's funny that you think im against paladins but after i corrected my mistakes, no one could refute the evidence i provided that power infusion should affect SoComm.. so i can either be your best asset, or worst critic.  provide the best evidence and write a logical bug report and we shall see which side i go on. its a shame that Esfand was the only one who linked evidence in the bug report while others shitposted it, clogging it up with useless banter. after the dernos video was shown, i broke it down. after awhile and some digging i found why it should benefit SoComm and other effects like Vengeance double dipping shouldn't.  but hey, keep throwing golf balls into the dark and hope you hit the hole. i prefer clear evidence and direction for fixing bugs. not guesstimation.

 

Best Regards,

Imbaslap

Like you was the first person who said Holy Resistance should exist and you were working very hard to prove that Items/Mobs should have Holy Resistance.

Great , everyone can see your comments and position about it , it all exist in Crestfall Forums.

http://forums.crestfall-gaming.com/index.php?/topic/237-paladin-bug-thread/&page=2#comment-2632

imbaslap Posted July 24, 2016 (edited)

 

Quote

 

as per the other abilities like Mage Armor that do mod 126 or items that give that mod 126 will affect holy resistance for the player wearing it.

now remember, this is all coming from the client we run for 1.12.1. so in regards to PVP, holy resist is apparently a thing.

 

This is how he push so hard his assumptions as Evidence , same as he do for Judgements Stacking.

Nothing but a pure assumption , which is worse , he is also part of Beta team and behind the scene about Paladins decisions, everything he says is followed by QA and Devs.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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@Killerduki please provide relevant evidence (from the period in question, expansion content does not count).

now let's drop this before the thread gets locked

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7 hours ago, Nirinia said:

@Killerduki please provide relevant evidence (from the period in question, expansion content does not count).

now let's drop this before the thread gets locked

There is evidence from before 1.8 and TBC.

While there is no evidence of removal between 1.8 and TBC , it was pure assumption for that.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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there is holy resist though. its not like i was wrong at all or anyone for that matter by looking straight at the client.(0 assumptions there)

the only part that was not shown was why blizzard set the resistance to 0 server side.

 

if there was no holy resist, holy spells wouldn't exist because there is no school of magic to calculate the damage for it.

different conjectures on that discussion and you still clearly misunderstood what it was about.

 

you were arguing there was no holy resistance at all in the game.

what you MEANT to say is that Holy resistance was set to 0 to accommodate the school of magic server side based on a developer's decision at blizzard. (most likely the paladin class lead). but you didn't say that in the discussion at all, just copy and paste your sources and saying it doesn't exist.  those 2 meanings do not go together. you make 0 sense when you say one thing shouldn't exist, but then want another.. but it cannot be done if the prior never existed..  

bringing that discussion up again just sort of annotates why you're still wrong on certain aspects of the game, mostly because you're trying to say something, but mean something else.   hence why i encourage making a "clear and comprehensible" bug report so there is little misunderstanding involved.  it takes more time trying to comprehend your copy and paste language then to actually fix the problem.  apples to oranges i guess.

 

as for the multi judgement issue.. there was no change in damage when the onyxian warder had 2 Jotc on it and 1 Jotc.  the damage did not change on consecrate at all or any of his spells. 

 

as for TBC and Wotlk, the same bug was there and removed in wotlk during the lich king fiasco where people thought the guild who used it was abusing a bug to gain an advantage, when it turned out to be a visual bug, granting no benefit at all. hence mentioned in the patch note and in the github report.

 

please reread the report and look at the details shown from all parties involved in the discussion. just because you disagree with the evidence, doesn't mean it should stay bugged on Elysium.

 

Best Regards,

Imbaslap

 

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14 hours ago, Imbaslap said:

as for the multi judgement issue.. there was no change in damage when the onyxian warder had 2 Jotc on it and 1 Jotc.  the damage did not change on consecrate at all or any of his spells.

 

There was indeed a big change, this was shown with 5 different screenshots taken directly from combat log of the video and it was proof that there was indeed a change in the damage between both warders .

Everyone have seen that and you try to deny the very same thing , github report was locked (thanks to you) , so this evidence couldn't be given there, but it was given to Dev Discord , it was given to the former (in that period current) Developer and it was given to Staden also , but you , same as all devs denied as "not intended" and you personally deny it only via assumptions , nothing else , turning a blind eye toward the evidence.

You deny something that was in theory and combat log proven which multiple judges ranks did work there in the Video you talk about.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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17 hours ago, killerduki said:

There was indeed a big change, this was shown with 5 different screenshots taken directly from combat log of the video and it was proof that there was indeed a change in the damage between both warders .

Everyone have seen that and you try to deny the very same thing , github report was locked (thanks to you) , so this evidence couldn't be given there, but it was given to Dev Discord , it was given to the former (in that period current) Developer and it was given to Staden also , but you , same as all devs denied as "not intended" and you personally deny it only via assumptions , nothing else , turning a blind eye toward the evidence.

You deny something that was in theory and combat log proven which multiple judges ranks did work there in the Video you talk about.

/Kind regards Killerduki

uhh, everyone except you deny the evidence that was shown. it showed the damage didn't change during the video linked. with 2 jotc's on the mob and when 1 wore off. then reapplied with no change in damage at all.

 

i think you need to rewatch the video again.

"Imbaslap commented on May 27 • edited
the first tick of his consecrate (with 1 JotC up b4 the snapshot of 2) he was doing 71/72 dps a tick with only sanct aura up when he casted.

when 2 JoTc is applied, he casted consecrate with all 3 buffs up, JoTc #2 fell off after it ticked 104, reapplied, still 104/105 a tick.

http://imgur.com/a/l2tUT

at 38s in the video. the debuff wore off... the first tick applied then new JoTC is up.. no change in damage.. now based on how "increase damage taken" modifiers work in wow, that's not how it should behave. it should boost the damage with more damage taken added to the mob.

at 48s he casts consecrate again. 2 debuffs up, does 104 dmg.. 2nd debuff falls off, 104 damage again.
to me, it seems to be that the 2nd JotC is not increasing the damage taken on the mob. almost like a visual bug? (maybe someone had a source referring to it being visual bug in TBC in patch 2.4.0) maybe same issue occuring here on the PTR. which would explain the behavior of visual bug to me."

 

"

the TBC vod shows 2 JoTC debuffs (no combat log cuz in CHINESE BLEH)
the 40 man onyxia video showed only 2 JoTC debuffs.
the 40 man video based on the math showed that the 2nd JoTC debuff did not give bonus damage to the paladins attacks/consecrate/judgements.

all of the above apply to the patch 2.4.0 where blizzard fixed a duplicate Judgement of the Crusader on the mob that provided 0 benefit to the player.
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/game/patch-notes/2-4-0
-Judgement of the Crusader: It is no longer possible to have icons for two different ranks of Judgment of the Crusader appear at the same time when judged by multiple Paladins.

notice how there is no other Judgement of light x2 or judgement of wisdom x2?"

https://github.com/elysium-project/server/issues/802

all the other remaining videos linked by theloras and yourself only show that the 2.4.0 visual bug was in place.. not that it was doubling its benefit of 2x Jotc on the mob.

 

Best Regards,

Imbaslap

 

Edited by Imbaslap

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Quote

 

"Imbaslap commented on May 27 • edited
the first tick of his consecrate (with 1 JotC up b4 the snapshot of 2) he was doing 71/72 dps a tick with only sanct aura up when he casted.

when 2 JoTc is applied, he casted consecrate with all 3 buffs up, JoTc #2 fell off after it ticked 104, reapplied, still 104/105 a tick.

http://imgur.com/a/l2tUT

at 38s in the video. the debuff wore off... the first tick applied then new JoTC is up.. no change in damage.. now based on how "increase damage taken" modifiers work in wow, that's not how it should behave. it should boost the damage with more damage taken added to the mob.

at 48s he casts consecrate again. 2 debuffs up, does 104 dmg.. 2nd debuff falls off, 104 damage again.
to me, it seems to be that the 2nd JotC is not increasing the damage taken on the mob. almost like a visual bug? (maybe someone had a source referring to it being visual bug in TBC in patch 2.4.0) maybe same issue occuring here on the PTR. which would explain the behavior of visual bug to me."

 

Quote

at 38s in the video. the debuff wore off... the first tick applied then new JoTC is up.. no change in damage.. now based on how "increase damage taken" modifiers work in wow, that's not how it should behave. it should boost the damage with more damage taken added to the mob.

Let see the part where you try to Fabricate and was caught as liar and manipulating, this time with evidence everyone will see how Fake and anti Paladin hater you are :

00:36 = Consecration was applied before Judgement of the Crusader get removed

59d56a1ddd852_Onyxia1.thumb.jpg.21cd24d707ab476e13f612b619a46461.jpg

Now , you can see at 00:37 the double Judges are still activated on the target

59d56a426da5b_Onyxia2.thumb.jpg.22db7bd66e3eed85cc3d20b714642b20.jpg

Quote

at 48s he casts consecrate again. 2 debuffs up, does 104 dmg.. 2nd debuff falls off, 104 damage again.
to me, it seems to be that the 2nd JotC is not increasing the damage taken on the mob. almost like a visual bug? (maybe someone had a source referring to it being visual bug in TBC in patch 2.4.0) maybe same issue occuring here on the PTR. which would explain the behavior of visual bug to me."

You do realize when you cast Consecration before swapping weapon or Judges will do the damage as it did "before you do these changes"?

Now , the Visual part which you can't realize , it was not the working part , it was the Icon Appear and Disappear randomly instead of remaining there all the time.

Which mean it is working as intended but there was glitch for the Icon and you can see it right here:

01:39 : you can see he apply 2nd JoTC debuff from the different Rank on Onyxia

59d56d275311c_onyxia3.thumb.jpg.7606401e405aa88fbd9a60a5138cac2b.jpg

3 Seconds later you can see the debuff randomly disappeared (the visual bug was actually this)

59d56d88ce4d8_onyxia4.thumb.jpg.bc605d558bc1b05f77d6c83ecc1c462d.jpg

And then you can see it did appear again 3 seconds later.

The same case it was for the Wardens, the Judgement in reality was still applied but the "Visual Bug" made it blink for 3 seconds.

Everyone know that the Judgements last at least 6+ seconds after it being applied , it won't disappear after 3 seconds.

Here we just proved how much you tend to lie and fabricate things.

As for the Damage , everyone can see the difference between 1st and 2nd Warden , mathematically and in theory the damage difference provide proof that the damage did change between 1 JoTC Warden and 2 JoTC Warden , this is not glitch and it's working as intended.

Just to remind you the part you ignore where the Damage Scaling is working correct if you add the bonuses by 2nd JoTC for 2nd Warden compare to the 1st one.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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Conversation to Quote you about the Video where me and Eir did talk about  the Damage and sources for the Damage difference between 1st and 2nd Warden :

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
Wasn't the increase in damage explained by the improved seal replacing the old?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
doesn't match with the tooltip damage
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
Which part didn't match?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
from 72 up to 104
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
Where in the video?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
1st one , the comparison between the 2 mobs
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
73 to 83 was a very close match to replacing the seal, right?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
the names of combat log got increased from average 50-72 up to 83 , but since there was lot paladins , you can't see accurate which person got how much, it was just taken the average damage increased
 
 
 
which mean , even if 73 did match with 83 , 50 doesn't match too
 
 
 
the numbers was taken as statistic
 
 
 
but we do compare the increase versus the player too
 
 
 
if it was improved judgement , the player damage doesn't match
 
 
 
you wont get 104 damage from improved judgement
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
But there was also Vengeance, right?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
also , 15% by improved judgement is not for the whole consecration 15% , it is 15% by Judgement increased damage only.
 
 
 
73 damage by consecration is not from judgement only
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
Ok. So how does Consecration go from 48 to 73?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
spell dmg and holy dmg
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
Would you mind doing the calculation?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
by 140 damage (judgement) , you would get 33% consecration damage , but the damage will be divide to 8 ticks , which mean
 
 
 
by normal max rank judgement you would get around 5 damage(edited)
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
Where do you get 33%?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
consecration coefficient
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
So what's the full calculation 48->73?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
we can't know accurate , because we don't know his spell damage gear + we can see he uses weapon oil (could be spell damage oil too)
 
 
 
what we do compare is the existent changes between the 2 mobs
 
 
 
with exactly the same items etc
 
 
 
so on 1st mob he had only 1 jotc and did 72 dmg
 
 
 
on 2nd mob he had 2 jotc and did 104 dmg
 
 
 
which mean , improved judgement of the crusader will give him 2 damage per tick maximum
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
Do you know what the buff is at :38 that looks like Sanctity aura?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
talisman , trinket(edited)
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
Then isn't 72->104 because of talisman + Vengeance more likely?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
it wont be even close, it is 175 spell dmg
 
 
 
the closest goes with 300+ spell dmg which mean 2nd Judgement+Talisman
 
 
 
Improved Judgement of the Crusader is not flat 15% of the holy damage , so it will not increase flat 15% of consecration damage
 
 
 
it is 15% of the judgement damage, which mean only 2 damage per consecration tick will increase
 
 
 
it is flat modifier to the judgement only , not to the spells(edited)
 
 
 
it adds maximum 15% increased holy spell dmg by the existent judgement
 
 
 
so it increase from 140 holy dmg to 165 holy dmg (spell dmg)
 
 
 
for consecration it is like 2 damage per tick increase, not flat 15 or 30 damage
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
Surely +15% holy damage from judgement, +15% damage from vengeance, + 175 spell damage is enough to go from 73 to 104?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
15% from judgement (if it is improved) , it will be from 73 damage up to 75 damage only
 
 
 
75 damage by judgement + 175 (talisman) = 75 + 8 = 83 damage + 15% vengeance = 95 damage
 
 
 
doesn't match and far from 104(edited)
 
 
 
from 95 damage if you add 1 more judgement (aka 165 ) it will go up to 104 dmg
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
Is this calculation correct? 48 * (1 + 10% + 15%) + 13 spell damage = 73?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
nope
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
What is the correct calculation?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
1 spell dmg = (1 * 0.33) / 8
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
So each tick gets only +6 from 140 Judgement of Crusader?
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
y
 
 
 
improved judgement is 165 instead 140
 
 
 
thats the "15%"
 
 
 
I don't know where from 15% improved judgement theory came out that should add flat consecration damage increase , it must been from imbaslap manipulating the bugreport(edited)
 
 

Eir-06/05/2017

 
 
Alright, I have to go. Maybe you can find the full calculation 48->73.
 
 

Killerduki-06/05/2017

 
 
as i said, you can't know that
 
 
 
we don't know his spell damage gear
 
 
 
let do some assumptions and say 48 can be increased from sanctity aura by 10%(edited)
 
 
 
52, but we can't know unless we all know the spell dmg gear he have
 
 
 
From what we can see is that he used Field Marshal Gear + Brilliant Wizard Oil on weapon
 
 
 
Which mean ,he have lot amount of spell dmg items to increase from 48 to 73(edited)
 
 
 
From Field Marshal set he have at least 157 damage + by brilliant wizard oil he can have extra 35 damage = 187 damage (around)
 
 
 
7 + 48 = 55 + 10% = 61 damage , but we don't know his other items or enchants like weapon enchant etc(edited)
 
 
 
or let say 55 damage by field marshal + base dmg + 7 damage by 1x jotc = 61 damage + 10% sanctity aura = 67 damage (pretty close to 72) , but as i said, we are not yet familiar with his other gear or enchants(edited)
 
 
 
If his other gear (except field marshal) and enchants are around 150 spell dmg, then it will match the exact 73 damage/tick
 
 

/Kind regards Killerduki

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On the server now, there are times when the UI will not register/display the damage you do let alone exactly when you actually damage something. There are reasons for this beyond being just a "visual bug." Back then, visual wonkiness happened all the time.

Having only sanctity aura and vengeance really cuts down on the number of buffs. On Second warder:

104 / 1.1 / 1.15 = ~82 - 48 (base damage) = ~34 * 8 / .33 = ~829 spell damage.

Several of the paladins have pvp gear so it isn't beyond reason they have the gloves giving  +20 to JotC and Libram of Fervor is a fairly common libram.

~829 -175 (Talisman of Ephemeral Power) = ~654

x = 187 (JotC rank 5 w/ gloves and libram, imp JotC)

y = 221 (JotC rank 6 w/ gloves and libram, imp JotC)

~654 - x - y = ~246 spell damage minimum

Without x the paladin would have to have ~433 spell damage at a minimum and ~514 at a maximum with x without any JotC improvements.

Lets Look at the first warder:

Sanctity Aura only. Obviously the 54 damage was an extremely unlucky string of 25% partial resists (72 * .25 = 54)

72 / 1.1 = ~ 65 - 48 = ~17 * 8 / .33 = ~423 (10 less than the minimum of the second warder)

~423 - y = ~201 spell damage minimum

~423 - x = ~235 minimum

Using x without any JotC improvements you get a maximum of ~313 spell damage. 120 less than the minimum of the second warder if JotC didn't stack.

Something at the very minimum gave 120 spell damage between the 2 warders and very likely more than that. Was it possible the paladin equipped even more gear to go another 200 ish spell damage? Seems very unlikely.

Whatever, mathematical absolutes don't mean a thing to something that isn't OP to begin with...never mind, its just pettiness.

 

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Pretty hard to deny the evidence now but I'm sure Imbaslap's hatred of paladins will come up with something.

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1 hour ago, Xaph said:

Pretty hard to deny the evidence now but I'm sure Imbaslap's hatred of paladins will come up with something.

My rough guess is that the paladin had between 275-280 spell damage with a rank 5 JotC up on the first warder. Interestingly enough, my math seems to support that the rank 5 was also missing the Libram of fervor. Its hard to know for certain exactly due to how WoW rounds numbers but the numbers should be accurate to a + or - 5.

It's real easy to come up with an excuse simply due to the lack of paladin group content because of the stigma they had. Hell, one of the guys on github actually needs evidence from vanilla to prove that divine shield actually prevents drowning and fatigue damage for those 12 short seconds.

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6 hours ago, Xaph said:

Pretty hard to deny the evidence now but I'm sure Imbaslap's hatred of paladins will come up with something.

I usually hate the Wall of Text as non English 1st language when someone write, the reason how he getaway in Github without being quoted for every single piece of his words he try to manipulate,i can't quote in Github, neither i was given a chance to provide Evidence there , he locked the Bug Report and (temporary) Banned me there for not violating any rule on the very same Report at all (just like Kronos do when something is not in their favor).

And then they claimed conclusion based on Assumption as everyone can see this with Evidence.

In this Website , i can quote each part and he can try to make even Chinese Wall of Trump Text if he want, everything will be defined with details.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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15 hours ago, Xaph said:

Pretty hard to deny the evidence now but I'm sure Imbaslap's hatred of paladins will come up with something.

are you referring to killerduki's copy and paste from discord or my reply from the bug report?

 

not sure why you're trying to figure out the 78 damage tick for consecration when there was 0 change in damage with 1 jotc on the mob, and 2 jotc on the mob.  we arent trying to decypher how much spell damage the paladin has or why he has consecrate for 78 damage. we're discussing why 2x jotc's on a mob do not change the damage when 1 jotc debuff falls off during a consecration tick.

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4 minutes ago, Imbaslap said:

are you referring to killerduki's copy and paste from discord or my reply from the bug report?

 

not sure why you're trying to figure out the 78 damage tick for consecration when there was 0 change in damage with 1 jotc on the mob, and 2 jotc on the mob.  we arent trying to decypher how much spell damage the paladin has or why he has consecrate for 78 damage. we're discussing why 2x jotc's on a mob do not change the damage when 1 jotc debuff falls off during a consecration tick.

You're still not reading what he wrote correctly. The appearance of a second jotc and it falling off is a separate issue. Whether you like him or not, just read what he wrote. There are two separate issues, one is a visual bug and the other is jotc stacking. You're conflating the 2.

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15 minutes ago, Xaph said:

You're still not reading what he wrote correctly. The appearance of a second jotc and it falling off is a separate issue. Whether you like him or not, just read what he wrote. There are two separate issues, one is a visual bug and the other is jotc stacking. You're conflating the 2.

you're misunderstanding how "you take X amount of damage" debuffs work on targets.

 

you cast consecrate on mob. you deal X damage.

mob has 1 JOTC on mob, Consecrate gains Y benefit.

2nd JOTC on mob,  consecrate stays the same.

2nd JOTC falls off, consecrate stays the same.

 

when you gain a debuff similar to improved scorch.  %damage increase or mob takes X amount of extra fire damage (the arcanite dragonling trinket). if there is a fire dot or even a flamestrike on the mob. (even with curse of shadows) the damage over time ground effect increases up. 

if 2 JOTC's stacked you wouldve seen a drop in damage on consecrate when JOTC fell off.  but you didnt see that. you also did not see a "bump" in damage either when a 2nd JOTC was reapplied to the same mob during consecrate.

 

i know its difficult to understand basic game mechanics, but please understand how those selective debuffs behave in the game first before jumping to a conclusion that there is evidence of 2x jotc ever giving benefit to the player.  JOTC isnt some special snowflake debuff that behaves entirely seperate from the 5,000 other spells in the game.. i know you love paladins, but that is not how WoW works.

 

you can test it yourself on elysium...  here's an example of what i mean.

 

in a duel, fight another paladin

 

drop consecrate... wait for 1 tick then apply jotc debuff  and see the result of the consecrate damage go "up".

 

do the same thing but apply JoTC to the player. at 3s left on the debuff, cast consecrate..  watch the damage be high.. when jotc wears off, watch consecrate's damage "drop" due to the +damage taken debuff fading.

this applies to every spell in the game that utilizes + damage taken modifier on a mob or player.

it still does to this day on retail.

 

@killerduki  "You do realize when you cast Consecration before swapping weapon or Judges will do the damage as it did "before you do these changes"?

 

this statement is false and an incorrect understanding on how the spell system behaves.

 

the visual bug is irrelevant. what matters is did the 2 jotc's give a benefit and stacked or did it not.

I am simply refuting killerduki's claim that just because you SEE 2 debuffs of JOTC on the mob, doesnt mean that you're gaining a stackable benefit. 

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11 minutes ago, Imbaslap said:

if 2 JOTC's stacked you wouldve seen a drop in damage on consecrate when JOTC fell off.  but you didnt see that. you also did not see a "bump" in damage either when a 2nd JOTC was reapplied to the same mob during consecrate.

 

i know its difficult to understand basic game mechanics, but please understand how those selective debuffs behave in the game first before jumping to a conclusion that there is evidence of 2x jotc ever giving benefit to the player.  JOTC isnt some special snowflake debuff that behaves entirely seperate from the 5,000 other spells in the game.. i know you love paladins, but that is not how WoW works.

I know reading comprehension is tough for you. I can see that in all of the replies you've posted on other bug reports as well. You're misunderstanding what Killerduki was pointing out. Whether the debuff for JOTC shows or does not show THAT IS LIKELY THE VISUAL BUG (caps so you hopefully read it). I understand what you're saying about the mechanics but you're clearly using your eyes and assuming that the VISUAL BUG is the same as what's taking place. The only way to AVOID THE VISUAL BUG, is to compare the damage on the two different warders and theorize what caused the difference in damage. Again, YOU CANNOT BE 100% POSITIVE THAT WHAT YOU'RE SEEING (THE VISUAL BUG) IS EXACTLY WHAT IS OCCURRING IN THE DAMAGE CALCULATION. The only way to control for that is to compare the damage. 

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7 minutes ago, Xaph said:

I know reading comprehension is tough for you. I can see that in all of the replies you've posted on other bug reports as well. You're misunderstanding what Killerduki was pointing out. Whether the debuff for JOTC shows or does not show THAT IS LIKELY THE VISUAL BUG (caps so you hopefully read it). I understand what you're saying about the mechanics but you're clearly using your eyes and assuming that the VISUAL BUG is the same as what's taking place. The only way to AVOID THE VISUAL BUG, is to compare the damage on the two different warders and theorize what caused the difference in damage. Again, YOU CANNOT BE 100% POSITIVE THAT WHAT YOU'RE SEEING (THE VISUAL BUG) IS EXACTLY WHAT IS OCCURRING IN THE DAMAGE CALCULATION. The only way to control for that is to compare the damage. 

you're still missing the point..  the damage that the paladin does doesnt matter at all. it doesnt matter if the paladin has 5000 spell power or 5.

what matters is this.

does 2x jotc give 2x the benefit or not.

it's very simple.

the snapshots showing 2x jotc's did show consecrate (a static damage over time spell) was not gaining 2x the benefit when 1 faded and then reapplied.

 

not sure what you're missing about that. we're not trying to decypher his gear and such. it's just about multi judgement stacking its benefits.

 

and so far, still 0 evidence showing 4x JoL's or JoW's.. the only remaining debate for @killerduki is 2x jotc. the original state of the judgements were completely bugged and as my avatar shows, completely broken.

 

if you want to debate if the 2x jotcs gave a benefit or not and the wotlk patch note about a visual bug is false, by all means. go ahead.  but so far, not a single shred of evidence or math shows it to be the case. 

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20 hours ago, killerduki said:

Let see the part where you try to Fabricate and was caught as liar and manipulating, this time with evidence everyone will see how Fake and anti Paladin hater you are :

00:36 = Consecration was applied before Judgement of the Crusader get removed

59d56a1ddd852_Onyxia1.thumb.jpg.21cd24d707ab476e13f612b619a46461.jpg

Now , you can see at 00:37 the double Judges are still activated on the target

59d56a426da5b_Onyxia2.thumb.jpg.22db7bd66e3eed85cc3d20b714642b20.jpg

You do realize when you cast Consecration before swapping weapon or Judges will do the damage as it did "before you do these changes"?

Now , the Visual part which you can't realize , it was not the working part , it was the Icon Appear and Disappear randomly instead of remaining there all the time.

Which mean it is working as intended but there was glitch for the Icon and you can see it right here:

01:39 : you can see he apply 2nd JoTC debuff from the different Rank on Onyxia

59d56d275311c_onyxia3.thumb.jpg.7606401e405aa88fbd9a60a5138cac2b.jpg

3 Seconds later you can see the debuff randomly disappeared (the visual bug was actually this)

59d56d88ce4d8_onyxia4.thumb.jpg.bc605d558bc1b05f77d6c83ecc1c462d.jpg

And then you can see it did appear again 3 seconds later.

The same case it was for the Wardens, the Judgement in reality was still applied but the "Visual Bug" made it blink for 3 seconds.

Everyone know that the Judgements last at least 6+ seconds after it being applied , it won't disappear after 3 seconds.

 

or 1 of the 40 paladins reapplied JoTC....

or is 1:03-1:07 a false positive as well?  didn't blink that time now did it? now you're just being silly and saying debuffs magically blink off and on?  like... what... in a raid of 40 paladins that is too.. with only 1 JoW and 1 JoL as well....

 

even if the debuffs magically blink off... that would just prove it was a visual bug then.. and not an actual stackable debuff.. because then it's not even behaving as the spell should be. so in essence.. its not even an accurate depiction of 2x ACTUAL jotcs then...because if it did behave correctly, they would last much longer no?  lmao.

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49 minutes ago, Imbaslap said:

or 1 of the 40 paladins reapplied JoTC....

or is 1:03-1:07 a false positive as well?  didn't blink that time now did it? now you're just being silly and saying debuffs magically blink off and on?  like... what... in a raid of 40 paladins that is too.. with only 1 JoW and 1 JoL as well....

 

even if the debuffs magically blink off... that would just prove it was a visual bug then.. and not an actual stackable debuff.. because then it's not even behaving as the spell should be. so in essence.. its not even an accurate depiction of 2x ACTUAL jotcs then...because if it did behave correctly, they would last much longer no?  lmao.

I understand how emotional you are when someone Disapprove you , why do you Ignore the fact that the Judgement Applied disappeared after 3 Seconds and then reappeared again by itself? ..... No idea with who i am talking with , but i clearly can see you are delusional here 100%.

 

Judgements does not disappear after 3 Seconds ... What you seen was Visual Bug where JoTC did disappear after 3 seconds and reappear 2 seconds (Blinking) due to the UI issue.

Everyone know Judgements last for more than 6 Seconds .. But you clearly not just manipulating , but also try to put everyone in Ignorance.

Yes you are Paladin Hater talking with assumptions only , nothing else , everyone can see this as Evidence.

2x JoTC does work and Video proves that , there is big difference between the 2x Wardens and Theory and Math even proves this.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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Just now, killerduki said:

I understand how emotional you are when someone Disapprove you , why do you Ignore the fact that the Judgement Applied disappeared after 3 Seconds ..... No idea with who i am talking with , but i clearly can see you are delusional here 100%.

 

Judgements does not disappear after 3 Seconds ... What you seen was Visual Bug where JoTC did disappear after 3 seconds and reappear 2 seconds (Blinking) due to the UI issue.

Everyone know Judgements last for more than 6 Seconds .. But you clearly not just manipulating , but also try to put everyone in Ignorance.

Yes you are Paladin Hater talking with assumptions only , nothing else , everyone can see this as Evidence.

2x JoTC does work and Video proves that , there is big difference between the 2x Wardens and Theory and Math even proves this.

/Kind regards Killerduki

i dont hate paladins, just people who are clueless about the game.

good luck with your next bug report on judgement stacking. i look forward to new evidence being presented on why paladins should be the #1 class in the game due to broken mechanics.

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13 minutes ago, Imbaslap said:

i dont hate paladins, just people who are clueless about the game.

good luck with your next bug report on judgement stacking. i look forward to new evidence being presented on why paladins should be the #1 class in the game due to broken mechanics.

https://forum.elysium-project.org/topic/25951-paladin-bug-compendium/?do=findComment&comment=444951

I will keep this Link , because you manipulated the Bugreport according to this conversation , here is the debunked version and exposing the Lie you wrote in the Bugreport.

Thanks to Imbaslap and Crestfall lies , all Paladins got unblizzlike modified Ability in this Project.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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12 hours ago, Imbaslap said:

are you referring to killerduki's copy and paste from discord or my reply from the bug report?

 

not sure why you're trying to figure out the 78 damage tick for consecration when there was 0 change in damage with 1 jotc on the mob, and 2 jotc on the mob.  we arent trying to decypher how much spell damage the paladin has or why he has consecrate for 78 damage. we're discussing why 2x jotc's on a mob do not change the damage when 1 jotc debuff falls off during a consecration tick.

He was referring to my post just above his in which I broke the math down. Assuming the exact same gear between the warders, it is just drastically impossible for it to work without the second JotC being there and having an effect. At the very minimum, the paladin already had roughly 240 spell damage. If on the second warder JotC didn't stack, the paladin would have had to equip another 200 spell damage to get to the numbers that were so high even with the trinket. Considering that he was using Tier 1 for the most visible slots, that cuts down on what was available to switch out.

Look at the combat log of the second warder and you can see that the judgement debuff gets applied like 20 times. That leads me to believe that debuffs weren't just refreshed, but consistently being overwritten by new ones even though there was no actual overwrite. That could be a probable cause for the visual problem.

Also, where is the 78 damage tick from? Was it from the other paladins? If it was during the second warden, 75% of 104 is 78.

Something I learned from watching the logs is that Consecration "afflicts" the target before doing damage. Probably insignificant, but was interesting to me.

One last thing, If the video was from the Pre-TBC patch PTR those combat logs are incredibly bare of crusader strike. It is more likely a PTR before that point.

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12 hours ago, Whitewolf said:

He was referring to my post just above his in which I broke the math down. Assuming the exact same gear between the warders, it is just drastically impossible for it to work without the second JotC being there and having an effect. At the very minimum, the paladin already had roughly 240 spell damage. If on the second warder JotC didn't stack, the paladin would have had to equip another 200 spell damage to get to the numbers that were so high even with the trinket. Considering that he was using Tier 1 for the most visible slots, that cuts down on what was available to switch out.

Look at the combat log of the second warder and you can see that the judgement debuff gets applied like 20 times. That leads me to believe that debuffs weren't just refreshed, but consistently being overwritten by new ones even though there was no actual overwrite. That could be a probable cause for the visual problem.

Also, where is the 78 damage tick from? Was it from the other paladins? If it was during the second warden, 75% of 104 is 78.

Something I learned from watching the logs is that Consecration "afflicts" the target before doing damage. Probably insignificant, but was interesting to me.

One last thing, If the video was from the Pre-TBC patch PTR those combat logs are incredibly bare of crusader strike. It is more likely a PTR before that point.

even still.

the bug report was referencing ALL judgements stacking with multiple ranks as stated in the bug report. (including multiple judgement of wisdom, light, and crusader)

like i said above. if you want to argue that Jotc stacked up to 2x max and gave benefit from both sources. make a new bug report to add that in.

but the overall evidence shown in regards to JoW and JoL stacking up to 4x+ like it did on Elysium before the report came in, there has been 0 evidence showing that those 2 judgements should stack above 1.

 

JotC argument can be a totally different issue separate from the original bug report. if that makes more sense. since the only evidence being shown is regarding Jotc.. and not JoW or JoL.  make a new report stating JotC should stack to 2 max and give benefit.. and link your sources/evidence/math and argue the point. as of right now, there is 0 evidence on why JoW or JoL should stack with multiple ranks.  that is what the bug report was about. if people actually read the report, you would understand what it was about. 

so far the only evidence you have mathematically is from a blizzard PTR, which is not a LIVE source of proof. irregardless if the 40 man paladin video counts or not due to being a PTR video, it still wont be adequate enough to argue that every judgement in the game should behave the same way as Jotc was during the PTR and during TBC while being bugged (the visual bug referenced in wotlk patch note/2.4.0 patch note as well linked by Roadblock on the github).

 

honestly, this falls on you all if you think JoTC was bugged for 2 expansions of wow but JoW and JoL worked correctly. but again, this is on you to prove that.. since there hasn't been any information or evidence showing they should... developers will always go with common sense and whats best for game balance on their emulated server.

 

better start looking for TBC videos with 2x Jotc with combat logs on the LIVE realm that shows both gaining benefit. otherwise, this case is closed due to insufficient evidence on why it should be broken on a server that is supposed to emulate the ```Live``` game of WoW.

 

(personally, i want to know if jotc bug gave benefit in TBC as well since I am testing a PTE project under Elysium, so an accurate TBC source helps always)

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4 hours ago, Imbaslap said:

even still.

the bug report was referencing ALL judgements stacking with multiple ranks as stated in the bug report. (including multiple judgement of wisdom, light, and crusader)

like i said above. if you want to argue that Jotc stacked up to 2x max and gave benefit from both sources. make a new bug report to add that in.

but the overall evidence shown in regards to JoW and JoL stacking up to 4x+ like it did on Elysium before the report came in, there has been 0 evidence showing that those 2 judgements should stack above 1.

 

JotC argument can be a totally different issue separate from the original bug report. if that makes more sense. since the only evidence being shown is regarding Jotc.. and not JoW or JoL.  make a new report stating JotC should stack to 2 max and give benefit.. and link your sources/evidence/math and argue the point. as of right now, there is 0 evidence on why JoW or JoL should stack with multiple ranks.  that is what the bug report was about. if people actually read the report, you would understand what it was about. 

so far the only evidence you have mathematically is from a blizzard PTR, which is not a LIVE source of proof. irregardless if the 40 man paladin video counts or not due to being a PTR video, it still wont be adequate enough to argue that every judgement in the game should behave the same way as Jotc was during the PTR and during TBC while being bugged (the visual bug referenced in wotlk patch note/2.4.0 patch note as well linked by Roadblock on the github).

 

honestly, this falls on you all if you think JoTC was bugged for 2 expansions of wow but JoW and JoL worked correctly. but again, this is on you to prove that.. since there hasn't been any information or evidence showing they should... developers will always go with common sense and whats best for game balance on their emulated server.

 

better start looking for TBC videos with 2x Jotc with combat logs on the LIVE realm that shows both gaining benefit. otherwise, this case is closed due to insufficient evidence on why it should be broken on a server that is supposed to emulate the ```Live``` game of WoW.

 

(personally, i want to know if jotc bug gave benefit in TBC as well since I am testing a PTE project under Elysium, so an accurate TBC source helps always)

Quote

the bug report was referencing ALL judgements stacking with multiple ranks as stated in the bug report. (including multiple judgement of wisdom, light, and crusader)

And there is Evidence for all judgements stacking , while you have 0 evidence for the removal of any of them.

Quote

like i said above. if you want to argue that Jotc stacked up to 2x max and gave benefit from both sources. make a new bug report to add that in.

This is like , "sure i might give you chance for one of them , since others are against my believes".

I am sorry but the evidence is right there for all Judgements , regardless if it is a Blog written or Video , while you have 0 evidence for their removal.

Quote

JotC argument can be a totally different issue separate from the original bug report. if that makes more sense. since the only evidence being shown is regarding Jotc.. and not JoW or JoL.  make a new report stating JotC should stack to 2 max and give benefit.. and link your sources/evidence/math and argue the point. as of right now, there is 0 evidence on why JoW or JoL should stack with multiple ranks.  that is what the bug report was about. if people actually read the report, you would understand what it was about. 

Again , there are multiple website blogs given where it says JoW  and JoL does work , you decide to deny them according to assumptions "oh he didn't knew what he write" , i am sorry but this doesn't work that way , you gotta disapprove them with evidence, but you didn't , you simple deny them with excuses.

Quote

so far the only evidence you have mathematically is from a blizzard PTR, which is not a LIVE source of proof. irregardless if the 40 man paladin video counts or not due to being a PTR video, it still wont be adequate enough to argue that every judgement in the game should behave the same way as Jotc was during the PTR and during TBC while being bugged (the visual bug referenced in wotlk patch note/2.4.0 patch note as well linked by Roadblock on the github).

There are Multiple Videos even during Live and none of them are Visual Bug , the Visual bug you refer doesn't say "Visual Bug" , it says "Icon" only.

So your Visual bug is out of thin air taken based off assumption, because it was not bug at all and you got the proof that it did work properly.

Quote

honestly, this falls on you all if you think JoTC was bugged for 2 expansions of wow but JoW and JoL worked correctly. but again, this is on you to prove that.. since there hasn't been any information or evidence showing they should... developers will always go with common sense and whats best for game balance on their emulated server.

You have Blogs written from 2005 and then again from 2008 (pre WoTLK era) where both of them are separate written and refer to the very same think it work.

The Blog from 2005 refer that it did work awesome and nobody mention the removal as official statement , even the one who said "it might get remove" , few months later you can see another which says it did work.

The Blog from 2008 (pre WoTLK era) refer that he was a multiboxer doing the very same thing for very long time.

Quote

better start looking for TBC videos with 2x Jotc with combat logs on the LIVE realm that shows both gaining benefit. otherwise, this case is closed due to insufficient evidence on why it should be broken on a server that is supposed to emulate the ```Live``` game of WoW.

There are multiple Videos with multiple Paladin JoTC , we don't have to search for anything beyond that , you are the one who went against this based of assumption without evidence given , you are the one who gotta search for removal evidence, but you don't , because it's against your believes and you will do everything to remain like this. This is like "You think you do , but you don't" .

Again , you reported that bug and you gave literally 0 evidence for any removal of it , you pushed up turning blind eye toward all evidence given , you as Beta tester together with Crestfall team used power of the Rank given to Lock the Github report , Ban us and removed it from the Game. Only because you were disapproved , had 0 evidence and you did want to be like that (unblizzlike and modified).

Quote

(personally, i want to know if jotc bug gave benefit in TBC as well since I am testing a PTE project under Elysium, so an accurate TBC source helps always)

You had a Video and Math given that it did work , but surely you will deny it and then moving forward with more and more excuses.

It reminds me on Crestfall and Holy Resistance issue , you guys denied and kept moving moving forward with excuses and excuses denying all sources and all evidence given , until Pottu got involved and your fellow Cornholi didn't took a step to show a Video, otherwise you would kept moving and moving with excuses like you do right now.

There are 2 different Topics in Nost with 2x pages evidence given about it and there is 1 Topic with 5 pages evidence given in Crestfall about it, all was denied like you deny Multiple Judges rank , only because you don't want it to be like that, all the things you said was based off assumption only and you still continue doing it.

But it's funny how whole Crestfall is involved in this issue too (all their Beta testers) against Multiple Judges, this just prove how disaster this Server is and Paladin hater , infiltrating Elysium and modifying unblizzlike features day by day with Wall of Text to manipulate people easier and living in ignorance.

/Kind regards Killerduki

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