Rage starved when tanking

[gotmilk0112 10]

I tried tanking a Deadmines last night, and it was rather hectic, though mostly because I was rage starved 90% of the time. (and because Battle Shout is bugged and doesn't generate threat...)

 

Is this just because I'm level 20, and it gets better at later levels, or...?

[Docken 0]

Battle shout does make threat, but they "corrected" rage generation to levels that seem unreasonable imo. I posted in suggestions forum about it and it was locked and told to find data and submit it to bug tracker to have it addressed.

[killerduki 54]

I tried tanking a Deadmines last night, and it was rather hectic, though mostly because I was rage starved 90% of the time. (and because Battle Shout is bugged and doesn't generate threat...)

 

Is this just because I'm level 20, and it gets better at later levels, or...?

Reroll Paladin Tank.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[gotmilk0112 10]

Battle shout does make threat

I tried it multiple times last night. It did not generate threat.

 

On Kronos, I was able to easily hold threat with Battle Shout. If someone else facepulled something, I could hit Battle Shout and all the mobs would come to me. I tried that last night on Nost, multiple times, and it didn't work at all.

[meridaw 11]

Use bloodrage after you pulled, demo shout and sunder spam. Bring a lock, druid or pala for thorns damage buff, and if you have to bring some cc.  Pull with a ranged weapon to a safe spot, so you dont get extra adds, easy mode.

Edited December 21, 2016 by meridaw

[gotmilk0112 10]

Yeah, I know how to tank, the problem is that I'm ragestarved. I can barely hit ONE sunder, let alone "spam" it.

 

And Bloodrage on pull generates a negligible amount of threat.

Edited December 21, 2016 by gotmilk0112

[killerduki 54]

I tried it multiple times last night. It did not generate threat.

 

On Kronos, I was able to easily hold threat with Battle Shout. If someone else facepulled something, I could hit Battle Shout and all the mobs would come to me. I tried that last night on Nost, multiple times, and it didn't work at all.

Nostalrius Shout work Blizzlike , Kronoss Shout does not divide among target and is not Blizzlike.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

[meridaw 11]

Sounds like pain, havent tryd tanking since before nos closed myself, but did not feel like i got much rage back then also. Guess it will be alot easyer when your a bit higher level then the mobs, so you dont miss as much hits, and have a better weapon.

Edited December 21, 2016 by meridaw

[Roflcakes 7]

The rage generation will have taken a sizable hit for sure. When 60 talents such as improved sunder armor will help a lot, because reducing the cost of sunder from 15 to 12 rage is quite sizable when feeling rage starved. What spec were you? If your tanking as arms, in the first 10 talents, there is nothing that will buff your rage from damage done, such as cruelty for crit or unbridled wrath (even if its not a particularly strong talent); this could add to the rage starved feeling.

 

As a bandage for the situation, try using shield bash when you can instead of sunder, it causes decent threat (max rank causes 180 / max rank sunder causes 260 base threat) it costs 10 rage compared to 15 thou; usable through disarm to, so it eases the rage situation a little. 

 

With regards to battle shout not working, was there anyone in range of battle shout? its unlikely but it could be possible they were standing back and battle shout didn't hit them when tanking? It could also be possible that if battle shout is on the target additional re-applications are not causing threat, which is not correct and should be reported.

 

Hope this helps

Edited December 21, 2016 by Roflcakes

[gotmilk0112 10]

^Bruh, read the OP. I'm level 20. I don't have Shield Bash. Or any prot talents.

 

And yes, I know people have to be in range for Battle Shout buff. Deadmines is a pretty enclosed instance; not really many places to stand at range.

 

I tested Battle Shout any time someone face/asspulled mobs. I'd hit Battle Shout....and nothing, the mobs would ignore me and continue on toward the person who pulled. As far as I can tell, Battle Shout is generating 0 threat. Demo Shout works, but Battle Shout doesn't.

Edited December 21, 2016 by gotmilk0112

[Roflcakes 7]

Shield bash not shield slam, it isnt a prot talent, its the interrupt.

 

Shield bash, 10 rage

 

Interrupts casting from target for 6 seconds. 

 

also generates a decent amount of threat.

Edited December 21, 2016 by Roflcakes

[gotmilk0112 10]

Seeing as it costs 10 rage, I'd rather just get 5 more rage for a Sunder, or use it on Demo Shout or whatever. That and, I'd rather save it for interrupts, instead of using it for more threat.

 

My threat issues are coming from being rage starved, not from using the wrong abilities.

[Theloras 108]

The changes they made to Battle Shout here on Nost/Elysium are Blizzlike.

 

In mid vanilla Blizzard changed Warrior Shouts and their AoE threat - previously my raiding guild used multiples Warriors using Shouts to put out AoE threat on Nefarian phase 1 add spawns but later on when this all got nerfed we had to switch and use Consecration and Warlock AoE to keep them in the alcoves and from running to and 1shotting healers.

[gotmilk0112 10]

The changes they made to Battle Shout here on Nost/Elysium are Blizzlike.

Really? As far as I could tell, Battle Shout was generating 0 threat.

 

I mean, I suppose I could stand to do some more testing, but did they really nerf it so hard that it generates almost no threat at all?

[Slyphe 1]

Just tested it on my level 19 warrior with a random person in the party, got him to facepull mobs without hitting them at all. All of the mobs swapped to me after I used Battle Shout, so it is actually generating aggro. Whether or not the values are correct is a different story, but it's generating something at the least.

[Theloras 108]

Really? As far as I could tell, Battle Shout was generating 0 threat.

 

I mean, I suppose I could stand to do some more testing, but did they really nerf it so hard that it generates almost no threat at all?

 

It generates some threat but nowhere near what it previously did and according to Duki:

 

 

"they use "multiplicative" at patch 1.11 threats instead "stacking" pre 1.11 patch - so battle should multiply up to 5 targets affected but it divide to all enemies"

 

1.11 patch was the changes according to kenco guide when they revamp the threats system

[Nocturn 4]

What spec are you lelving/tanking with? Should be arms with imp charge and points in TM. Either charge, or pull then bloodrage>BS (its minimal but along with bloodrage, enough to pull initial aggro to get all the mobs to hit you) then taunt the first mob then switch to your second/third applying sunder, dont waste any sunders on that first mob, just taunt and switch targets then apply a sunder to first target after if you have the rage and wait for the cd and taunt again or let the dps handle it. Dont use Demo unless you have excess rage, its not worth it for holding aggro in rage starved situations.

[Zawa 1]

I tried tanking a Deadmines last night, and it was rather hectic, though mostly because I was rage starved 90% of the time. (and because Battle Shout is bugged and doesn't generate threat...)

 

Is this just because I'm level 20, and it gets better at later levels, or...?

Battleshout worked fine for aggro on old nost.

Were you buffing your group with it? Need to buff multiple people to get the most aggro.

I'd test to see if the aggro varies based upon them already having the buff or not. Might be a bug.

Also might want to try when you get another rank of battleshout. It might be possible that specific ranks are bugged.

[Holkan 13]

In my experience the best thing you can do as a low level warrior is mark a skull (you can key bind marks) on something that dies fast like a non elite or a caster , don't bother trying to get threat on it as dps can tank something flimsy while everyone focuses it down you can taunt it if you feel like you need to which will give you a bit more time / rage. What you should be doing is focusing tab sunder on the remaining mobs of the pull with extra sunders on the next mob you want the dps to kill.

Try not to heroic strike as its gonna eat up your rage generation by turning your white swing into a yellow only use heroic strike if you have excess rage. And finally you don't have to use up all your rage on the end of the pull if there's one mob left and your taunt is up just white swing at it so you can start the next pull with 50 + rage using blood rage to refresh it so it doesn't all drain. Blood rage is also a tiny bit of agro on pull so they don't all run for the healer off 1 hot tick or whatever.

Also once you get berserker rage you can pop into berserker stance pop it and go back defensive and then you will have a lot of rage as it increases rage generation from damage taken. Berserker rage comes later on though at level 32.

[Donk2090 2]

I think rage generation is different here than on the old nost. I can't tab cleave like I did on old nost. I used to be able to cleave every 1.3 sec but can't do that now. 

[Tanked 2]

@OP Battle Shout is NOT producing ANY threat here whatsoever, DO NOT listen to these idiots and pally tank advocates like Killerduki

 

I am unable to post in the bug tracker due to a 500 internal server error but you can add to what I have put in the support forum.

 

And yes I have tested it in game, it produces exactly 0 threat no matter how many or how little the amount of mobs or number of players/pets buffed.

 

https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=25797

Edited December 23, 2016 by Tanked

[Jeetee 2]

It's broken ATM, don't listen to the biased paladin enthusiast with an agenda. Battle shout can and should be used to help with aoe threat when properly scripted.

[killerduki 54]

Since you talk bullshit that literally proves nothing , i will give you the explanation precisely:

 

Fixed an issue where Warrior "Battle Shout" was causing too much threat is also explained in Kenco Guide in early and late Patch (pre tbc and tbc).. .. ..

 

This is Kenco Guide again for "Late Patch" TBC as you say :

 

- Fixed an issue where Warrior "Battle Shout" was causing too much threat.

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20070430044929/http://evilempireguild.org/guides/kenco2.php

 

30 April 2007 TBC

You can see that Battle Shout no longer Multiply by 5 Players. It's no more there because this was removed in TBC.

 

And now here is again in early Patches pre TBC again:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20061023002703/http://evilempireguild.org/guides/kenco2.php

 

October 23 2006 PRE TBC

 

Battle Shout generates 55 threat for each player that is buffed; up to 5 people in your party and their pets, as long as they are on the relevant mob's threat list. For example if you buff a player that is out of combat, no threat is generated. Therefore in a tightly packed group, Battle Shout can rival Sunder Armor for threat, but as a buff the threat is split amongst all the mobs that are aware of you. On the other hand, Demoralizing Shout gives 43 threat to each affected mob. As long as there are 6 or more mobs affected, it will hold aggro as well or better than Sunder Armor.

 

 

 

That was the difference between TBC and Vanilla 1.11 when they multiply the threats.

 

The difference is that Battle Shout no longer multiply Threats up to 5 Targets.

 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 23, 2016 by killerduki

[killerduki 54]

This will hurt you fellow delusional friends, here is what TBC changed:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20061222001442/http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=94319875&sid=1

 

December 22 2006  (Patch 2.0.1)

Battle Shout no longer gives extra threat for each buffed member, just yourself. 

/Kind regards Killerduki

Edited December 23, 2016 by killerduki

[Theloras 108]

@OP Battle Shout is NOT producing ANY threat here whatsoever, DO NOT listen to these idiots and pally tank advocates like Killerduki

 

I am unable to post in the bug tracker due to a 500 internal server error but you can add to what I have put in the support forum.

 

And yes I have tested it in game, it produces exactly 0 threat no matter how many or how little the amount of mobs or number of players/pets buffed.

 

https://forum.elysium-project.org/index.php?showtopic=25797

 

It's broken ATM, don't listen to the biased paladin enthusiast with an agenda. Battle shout can and should be used to help with aoe threat when properly scripted.

 

LOL you bitches got pwnd by the Killer of Dukis!