Night Elf Priests

[Warl0ck 2]

Come people, can't Alliance warriors just stance dance like the Horde?

Switching gears, how good is starshards?  I take it that it's better than using holy spells when able to be cast without interruption.  How does it compare to shadow priest mind flay?  Would you ever use it instead (short fights where you can't stack shadow weaving)?  I am thinking of leveling with a friend (who will be a warrior or hunter), and going healing spec and DPSing with this and wand.  Since I have a partner, I should be able to cast without getting hit.

[Haestingas 30]

The difference is horde have tremor totems where as ally just have fear ward. Horde also has undead will of the forsaken

[Warl0ck 2]

3 hours ago, Haestingas said:

The difference is horde have tremor totems where as ally just have fear ward. Horde also has undead will of the forsaken

Have you played Horde?  Most warrior tanks are Tauren not Undead--and tremor is not reliable and can tick after the fear has ran you outside of its range.  How hard is it to change your stance and use an ability?  Really?

[Haestingas 30]

I've played both, and my guilds MT is undead, my previous guilds MT was undead. And the answer is its literally impossible to stance dance every single nef fear due to the cd on fear immune being the exact same as the fear unless you are undead and can WOTF. Checkmate idiot.

Another part is when the tank stance dances he's taking 20% more damage so it exposes him to more burst. So what do you think is better, having to risk your tank stance dancing AND HE WILL GET FEARED EVENTUALLY, or having non shitter priests that go the master race?

I know you want to be a pretty little elf boi doing flips and shit but the simple answer is dwarves bring SIGNIFICANTLY more to the table than non dwarves in both pve and pvp.

P.S. Starshards is horrible with the exception of spell pushback.

 

[Warl0ck 2]

13 minutes ago, Haestingas said:

P.S. Starshards is horrible with the exception of spell pushback.

From the Priest Leveling guide on this forum --

Starshards: On-use channeled ability that deals Arcane damage. 30 second cooldown. If uninterrupted, this spell has the highest single target damage per mana of any priest spell in the game. Also deals slightly more damage per second than Mind Flay outside of Shadow Form. In terms of mana-efficiency, this spell can only be beaten by channeling Mind Flay on a target with 5 stacks of Shadow Weaving, but getting Shadow Weaving to 5 stacks is a waste of mana except against Elites and players.

 

Seems not horrible.  Anyway, I'd go horde if the PVE pop wasn't screwed up--then I'd not have to deal with this :).

[Geston 15]

A common misconception with gear ward is you have to use it on tanks 

 

having a Druid fear warded on fights like Nef is insanely good. People like to say fear ward is overrated but it really isn't.

[Haestingas 30]

The problem with Starshards is that it's channeled AND if I recall correctly the damage ramps up the longer you cast it. So if you get any pushback at all from a mob hitting you the spell becomes much worse because you just lost your largest tic of dmg.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Haestingas

[Garun 9]

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 5:28 PM, Haestingas said:

I've played both, and my guilds MT is undead, my previous guilds MT was undead.

I guarantee that they were the MTs because of their skill/guild rank and not because they chose the best race. Tauren is hands-down the best tank race for horde, though for Alliance it's somewhat debateable between humans, dwarves, and night elves.

On ‎1‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 5:28 PM, Haestingas said:

And the answer is its literally impossible to stance dance every single nef fear due to the cd on fear immune being the exact same as the fear unless you are undead and can WOTF. Checkmate idiot.

Another part is when the tank stance dances he's taking 20% more damage so it exposes him to more burst. So what do you think is better, having to risk your tank stance dancing AND HE WILL GET FEARED EVENTUALLY, or having non shitter priests that go the master race?

If you are instantly stance dancing to zerker only long enough to use BR like you should, you will only be in zerker for 1.5 seconds and AT WORST take a crushing blow for near double the normal melee auto damage. Keep in mind that your MT can do it several seconds before the fear as BR lasts 10 seconds.

 

Though to respond to the original post, just make your priest a dwarf.

[Haestingas 30]

Oh I agree with you on dwarf, that's what I was arguing for most of this thread. As for horde tank race quite frankly I'd prefer an orc for more threat with Crul, followed by cow, followed by undead, but considering our undead MT goes deep in the paint im totally fine with it.

[Aiya 1]

Yo! I rolled a Night Elf priest, and Starshards freakin rocks man. It has the most efficient mana to damage ratio out of all your spells. Better than anything Shadow has. Seriously, compare it to anything else, even Mind Flay.

http://db.vanillagaming.org/?search=starshards

Realistically, a fully fledged Shadow tree will be stronger than Starshards, but until you get there nothing beats it in efficiency, and ONLY because the Shadow tree gives so much +% shadow damage. Also the stun proc is really nifty. *BUT* Starshards gives those who might want to go Holy or Disc a really strong spell that is STRONGER than Shadow if the tree isn't touched at all.

Also NE get Shadowmeld, which should not be overlooked. You can camp rough spots in highly contested areas without much fear of getting ganked. Very useful in world and in PvP.

Haven't had a chance to try out Elune's Grace, but it looks OK. Where Fear Ward (Dwarf) is great against Warlocks and Priests, Elune's Grace is great against Hunters and decent against Rogues, Warriors and Shaman. Feedback (Human) looked OK, but any player worth their salt would just not cast on you during the duration. Desperate Prayer (Human, Dwarf) is probably better for PvP than Starshards.

In conclusion, each race has their advantages. Shadowmeld is amazing, and Starshards means you can still bring something to the fight without being Shadow. I haven't had a chance to try Elune's Grace yet, but it looks really strong against Hunters. Also +10% dodge chance is no joke, that's a 15 second 10% damage reduction to all non-spell attacks.

 

P.S. Cast bubble on yourself because it prevents interruption while taking damage, so you get your full 6 ticks each cast. It does NOT increase damage as time goes on like Curse of Agony, the ticks are the same damage throughout. When soloing I usually do Bubble Self > SW:Pain > Starshards x2 > Wand to finish. With Spirit Tap I have no downtime soloing.

Edited January 25, 2017 by Aiya

[Roxanne Flowers 15]

Personally speaking, the thing that I like most about Starshards is the fact that it's a 6 second channel time, rather than just 5 seconds ... meaning that use of the spell is even "5 second rule friendly" so long as you don't get any interrupt while casting, because you'll always get a tick of mana regen while casting even before picking up Meditation, so the mana efficiency of the spell is even "higher" than advertised, depending on your Spirit and Talents.

[rprimora 0]

You should have rolled a dwarf!

[flowqz 34]

3 hours ago, rprimora said:

You should have rolled a dwarf!

personally i thought about rolling dwarf. after making 5different dwarfs i made a human, cause i couldnt stand the ugliness. at least i get 5% more spirit and 10%rep.

[Fisher 5]

On 1/17/2017 at 11:46 AM, Warl0ck said:

Switching gears, how good is starshards?

It is the highest damage per mana spell a priest has before Shadow Weaving. This makes it incredibly good for leveling (where DPM > DPS, typically). On its own, it's quite decent, but compared to other racial priest spells, it isn't that great. In terms of usefulness overall, I'd have to rank the racials as follows:

1. Fear Ward
2. Hex of Weakness
3. Devouring Plague
4. Desperate Prayer
5. Starshards
6. Touch of Weakness
7. Feedback
8. Shadowguard

This pretty much puts Dwarf at the top. Troll is best for Horde because of the racials they get in addition to the better priest racial, but playing Undead is acceptable. Human is fine for PvP and solo play. Starshards is decent, but it has little use at higher levels, is channeled (and thus isn't that useful in PvP), doesn't do as much DPS as other shadow spells, doesn't help your healing or your group in any way, etc. Shadowmeld doesn't really make up for the poor priest racial, either. Shadowmeld is... meh. Okay for hunters, maybe, arguably has some use in PvP, but it's nothing amazing.

On 1/17/2017 at 11:46 AM, Warl0ck said:

How does it compare to shadow priest mind flay?

• Mind Flay - 142 DPS and 2.08 DPM before talents; 204.1 DPS and 2.99 DPM after talents
• Starshards - 156 DPS and 2.67 DPM; talents do not affect the spell's DPS or DPM

Starshards' channel time is twice the duration of Mind Flay's and deals a little more than twice the damage before talents for a little less than twice the cost. It's a somewhat decent spell (very good before you get Shadow Form), but its usefulness falls off once you hit level 40 and gain access to talents that tremendously increase the damage of Mind Flay and other shadow spells.

At max level, it's practically worthless. A healer should probably never use it (as the mana is better spent on heals), and a shadow priest should be using better DPS spells like Mind Flay, Mind Blast, etc. If you were practically out of mana and needed to do some damage, it might be useful.

On 1/17/2017 at 11:46 AM, Warl0ck said:

Would you ever use it instead (short fights where you can't stack shadow weaving)?

No. In short fights you care WAY more about DPS than you do about DPM. DPM is about efficiency, which is important for long fights or strings of fights with little or no rest in between. In short fights, you care more about doing as much damage as you can as quickly as you can. In a short fight where you can't stack Shadow Weaving, you'd definitely ignore Starshards. In a longer fight where you need to be doing consistent damage over long periods of time (or while leveling), you could use Starshards to save some mana and maintain your damage output.

On 1/17/2017 at 4:44 PM, Warl0ck said:

From the Priest Leveling guide on this forum -- ...

Starshards...

Seems not horrible.

While I appreciate the sentiment, the context of that quote is important. That's for leveling, not raiding. While leveling, damage per mana is more important than DPS. In end-game content, the opposite is typically true, except in incredibly lengthy fights. If you're a shadow priest in the raid, you want to be maintaining the Shadow Weaving debuff and doing as much DPS as possible to justify your presence in the raid.

On 1/25/2017 at 6:08 AM, Roxanne Flowers said:

meaning that use of the spell is even "5 second rule friendly" so long as you don't get any interrupt while casting, because you'll always get a tick of mana regen while casting even before picking up Meditation, so the mana efficiency of the spell is even "higher" than advertised

This is an interesting point, but it doesn't actually change the DPM of the spell. The DPM totally ignores regeneration. DPM is about how much damage the spell will do for the amount of mana spent. Just because you regenerate some mana while casting it does not mean it dealt more damage per mana spent.

Long story short, Night Elf is... meh out of 10. Play whatever you want. Your race choice won't make a significant enough difference to notice in most cases. If you don't already know what the absolute best is, you probably aren't doing any content difficult enough that your race choice would make a difference.

 

Edited January 26, 2017 by Fisher

[Warl0ck 2]

25 minutes ago, Fisher said:

-snlip-

Thanks for taking the time to make the detailed reply.  Very helpful to me and probably others who find it later.

Problem solved.  I re-rolled horde on Zeth'Kur and left Darrowshire Alliance.  Undead priest in process.  Seksi the Beginning was one of my favorite PVP vids back in the day.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Warl0ck

[Roxanne Flowers 15]

44 minutes ago, Fisher said:

This is an interesting point, but it doesn't actually change the DPM of the spell. The DPM totally ignores regeneration. DPM is about how much damage the spell will do for the amount of mana spent. Just because you regenerate some mana while casting it does not mean it dealt more damage per mana spent.

I was somewhat surprised myself by the fact that you get a regeneration tick after 5 seconds while continuing to channel Starshards. I point it out not as something to modify the DPM "cost" of the spell itself (as you cite), but rather as a "end user" net overall consideration to include on a sidebar/footnote. It's just one more thing that helps the overall mana efficiency of Starshards perform better than you'd expect when reducing everything down to the spreadsheet/napkin math.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Roxanne Flowers

[Fisher 5]

8 minutes ago, Warl0ck said:

Thanks for taking the time to make the detailed reply.  Very helpful to me and probably others who find it later.

No problem. A lot of people are quick to rush to say "play Dwarf" without ever explaining why. 

8 minutes ago, mozibake said:

I feel like shadowguard is hella underrated, at least in PvP.  Don't forget that it can proc blackout.

Shadowguard requires you to be hit. I'm actually not sure if it procs even when you don't take damage. I'm fairly certain it does. If I'm not mistaken, its DPM is only 1.39, and its DPS is unquantifiable because of its Lightning Shield style mechanics. In terms of efficiency, it's not worth the mana to cast it during a fight, except, as you mention, perhaps in PvP, particularly if you have Blackout.

In PvE, both while leveling and in raids, it's simply not worth keeping up. Apply it before the fight starts, then ignore it.

17 minutes ago, mozibake said:

Dwarf > Human > Troll > Undead > Night Elf

I'd say Dwarf > Troll > Undead >= Human > Night Elf

Dwarf is the clear winner in just about everyone's list, for what I hope are obvious reasons. Fear Ward is great. Stoneform is great. 

Troll (in my opinion) is the best horde race for many reasons. Increased health regen and regen that works in combat allows you to save some mana not needing to heal. Berserking is good for casting and attacking faster (good for leveling and end-game!), and improves the closer you are to death. Hex of Weakness is great for PvP. Shadowguard is pretty lame, but 

Undead just has great racials, especially for PvP and leveling. While Devouring Plague isn't that great DPS or DPM wise, it is an extra bit of damage you can toss out instantly (no cast or channel, that is), making it good for PvP. You won't get to use Devouring Plague in most raid scenarios, which sort of makes Undead less useful there, but they're so undeniably good for soloing, and considering Will of the Forsaken, it's hard to rank them any lower.

Human is arguably of equal strength to Undead. Perception is great in PvP, occasionally useful in PvE. Desperate Prayer saves a great deal of mana on self-healing, which is great for end-game raiding, PvP, and leveling. The added spirit from their racial is great for end-game content (getting the most spell power as holy) and great for leveling. However, Feedback is such an underwhelming ability, and the insanely long cooldown on Desperate Prayer makes them so "meh" to me.

Night Elf's racials are underwhelming all around. Starshards is great for leveling, but horrible for end-game content. With Shadowform, Starshards loses most of its allure. It isn't very useful for a healer, and isn't very useful for a damage dealer. Elune's Grace is a subpar cooldown, like a ghetto wannabe version of Evasion. Shadowmeld is situationally useful; useful for camping long spawns or preparing for an ambush in PvP, etc. Overall, Night Elves are just... meh.

[Maez 4]

17 minutes ago, Fisher said:

Undead just has great racials, especially for PvP and leveling. While Devouring Plague isn't that great DPS or DPM wise, it is an extra bit of damage you can toss out instantly (no cast or channel, that is), making it good for PvP. You won't get to use Devouring Plague in most raid scenarios, which sort of makes Undead less useful there, but they're so undeniably good for soloing, and considering Will of the Forsaken, it's hard to rank them any lower.

Not to mention DP heals you for 100% of the damage done and triggers Vampiric Embrace heals.  It also benefits from certain shadow talents and is affected by ~80% of your spellpower according to other forum sources.

Now I do not remember this from vanilla, but does it have an initial tick at 0sec (useful for tagging mobs/killing blows)?

Edited January 26, 2017 by Maez

[Fisher 5]

9 minutes ago, Maez said:

Not to mention DP heals you for 100% of the damage done and triggers Vampiric Embrace heals.

Indeed. I forgot to mention that, but I did mention it in my guide. It's easily saved my life more than once on my priest, and watching people struggle to kill you because you just do so much damage and healing at the same time is great. Save for the absurdly high mana cost, it's a great spell. 

8 minutes ago, Maez said:

Now I do not remember this from vanilla, but does it have an initial tick at 0sec (useful for tagging mobs/killing blows)?

Nope. I'm actually not sure any DoT does that in vanilla.

[suhail1200 3]

@ OP Starshards is mainly pvp spell where u are spell locked by felhunter or ccd which allows u to use shards which is arcane.

PvE go dwarf and PvP go troll/undead...

Why?Pve gives fear ward for 10min and can be applied to others , usefull in pvp as well as raids and instances

For pvp horde is better but undead is more better since devour plague and wotf.As priest u have 1 aoe fear with cd , so as ally priest in 1 vs 1 against a undead horde priest if u use fear then horde can wotf it .Where as if a horde undead dispells ally fear ward and then fears then u get the fear in.

For starshards its useless in pve , u have mindflay...

Edited January 27, 2017 by suhail1200

[Dispril 0]

Play what you want. In terms of fun NE priest >> dwarf priest. You have to have played as a ne priest to know how good shadowmeld is on a pvp server, and how much fun you can have with it as a priest.

 

starshards is not too bad either, it will be used when you are farming stuff. And if used in pvp bad mages tend to counterspell it. 

 

If the tanks of today are so shit that they can't do nef without a fearward, then so be it. There will be room for you anyways in raiding guilds. And choosing to play dwarf just because of the few fights where fear ward is semi useful but easily done without (nefarian, onyxia, magmadar, bug trio and gluth) seems to be a stupid reason to play dwarf. Play dwarf if you like the look of it, but choosing to play dwarf just because of that spell for pve means you will be unhappy with your priest for the most of your time playing as it is useless in pve except for a few fights. If you want to have the "best" racial for pve, then human will be slightly better than the rest in the end. 

 

[rprimora 0]

On 1/26/2017 at 3:52 PM, flowqz said:

personally i thought about rolling dwarf. after making 5different dwarfs i made a human, cause i couldnt stand the ugliness. at least i get 5% more spirit and 10%rep.

They are hideous!

[Garun 9]

On ‎1‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 7:22 AM, Dispril said:

If the tanks of today are so shit that they can't do nef without a fearward, then so be it.

As a guy who plays a tank, those bad tanks can be replaced easily in raids. Unless the bad tanks are buddies with the GM or RL, they won't be tanking for long.