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      I would like to preface this by saying i am aware that there is nothing technically against the rules in forming a group and reserving gear. I know people have done this since world of warcraft first started.  having said that i think this has got out of hand. On elysium pvp literally 9/10 groups are reserve runs for ANYTHING. It sort of paints a picture as to why people get bored and quit servers/why people end up bored. First let's talk about it from a moral standpoint(i know, i know it's just a game). It seems to me that deciding YOU deserve certain gear over anyone else in the run is incredibly selfish. If you need that person in your run to accomplish it then they should have the same chance at loot as everyone else. The narrative i often hear is "i shouldnt have to give up X item to somebody who pulls shitty dps or dies alot to certain fights" etc...I would argue that replacing that person would be the right thing to do. I think, in the end though, most people agree it's a morally bankrupt thing to do reserve runs.

          The part that no one thinks of however is how this mindset of "i need the best gear and i need it now" ruins the experience for the person making the reserve run. When you only goal is gear, gear, and more gear you will become bored the second you have your gear. The game is, and always should be, about having fun and joking around with the people you do the runs with. It should be about creative interactions with other players while you quest together and over come obstacles. Hell when somebody in your group wins an item you should be as happy as if you won it. The problem is everyone wants instant gratification and doesn't care to interact. How many groups have you joined where people don't say but two things to each other while running a 2 hour instance? Granted perhaps 2 of them are on discord and talking the whole time but even then, how often do you get invited to discord/vent with them? No one plays this game for fun anymore it's just a means to covet gear for themselves. I know this post won't actually accomplish anything but i felt compelled to make it anyway out of a desire to see some dungeon runs with fun entertaining people like i remember doing back when vanilla was new.

        If you feel the same the best thing you can do is not run reserve runs, even if the item being reserved isn't for your class. Call people out when you see them making reserve runs....most people don't enjoy having this pointed out to them because they sort of know deep down it's a little shady. The less people are able to form these groups and the more we as a community stand up against them the less they will occur, and for the love of god.....say something to each other when you are playing lol, you might be surprised at the fun you can have when you open yourself up to the social aspect of the game more

-§mort§-

 

Edited by mortisxamor

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Every coin has two sides.

I never reserved anything on my runs (yet too low to organize 60 runs here, speaking about my past realms) but I have nothing against people doing it. I feel like if I have the need to really reserve something, I will do it. That need yet has to come though...

If I need item he/she reserved and I see such message on chat, I won't even ask for invitation.

Why he/she reserved it?

1. He/she ran instance way too many times and that item didn't drop, so he/she is kinda growing tired of having "fun" each day in same exact dungeon running same exact mobs and bosses with no success. That kind of situation looks like more as a frustration then having fun.

2. He/she has full time job and his/hers play time is very limited. Farming that particular item with few other people needing on it is pure lottery with small amount of free time to spend in game and long time needed to find actual party that is capable of completing the dungeon.

3. He/she has to meet the pre-raid BiS requirement for the scheduled raids of the guild asap and his/hers free time is not allowing "fun runs" over and over.

Fun can be had even in "reserved runs". He needs one, ONE, item. Entire instance is all yours to have fun with. 

 

I know it can be selfish a bit, not everyone is reserving items for legit reasons. I'm not saying you are wrong or right, I'm just saying there is other side of the "reserved" coin.

Vanilla is time consuming and probably the only game where I tolerate "reserved runs". Rest of the gaming world simply has no place for such thing as you can get pretty much everywhere with a press of a button. 

 

Just my 2 cents on this taboo....

Edited by Owondyah

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reserving things seems like a new phenomenon that i dont ever really remember existing in mmo's before the private server era, and now its everywhere. not really sure where it came from or why people feel the need to do it, i just run the instance again or make a group that doesn't have people all needing the same thing. the times are different now i guess, everyones in a rush to be preraid bis so they can raid log and do laps around IF

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I did not know the "reserve" thing from retail either. And I agree that the person, who reserves things, ruins his or her own experience. Dungeons are fun and social. Don't work against that! ;)

Edited by Mahtan

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Reserving was around in vanilla, Not to the extent it is here.

I'm not sure but i kind of enjoy the feeling you get if you have lost the roll on something a few times, say Dal weps and than finally win it over a few people in a roll. Such a better feeling than going oh yea i got it. Okay now what?

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1 hour ago, Owondyah said:

Every coin has two sides.

I never reserved anything on my runs (yet too low to organize 60 runs here, speaking about my past realms) but I have nothing against people doing it. I feel like if I have the need to really reserve something, I will do it. That need yet has to come though...

If I need item he/she reserved and I see such message on chat, I won't even ask for invitation.

Why he/she reserved it?

1. He/she ran instance way too many times and that item didn't drop, so he/she is kinda growing tired of having "fun" each day in same exact dungeon running same exact mobs and bosses with no success. That kind of situation looks like more as a frustration then having fun.

2. He/she has full time job and his/hers play time is very limited. Farming that particular item with few other people needing on it is pure lottery with small amount of free time to spend in game and long time needed to find actual party that is capable of completing the dungeon.

3. He/she has to meet the pre-raid BiS requirement for the scheduled raids of the guild asap and his/hers free time is not allowing "fun runs" over and over.

Fun can be had even in "reserved runs". He needs one, ONE, item. Entire instance is all yours to have fun with. 

 

I know it can be selfish a bit, not everyone is reserving items for legit reasons. I'm not saying you are wrong or right, I'm just saying there is other side of the "reserved" coin.

Vanilla is time consuming and probably the only game where I tolerate "reserved runs". Rest of the gaming world simply has no place for such thing as you can get pretty much everywhere with a press of a button. 

 

Just my 2 cents on this taboo....

The thing is though you don't HAVE to be "pre raid bis" to raid at all....it doesn't hurt obv but these items are not needed to raid. It's the same logic that makes people demand you be 4 levels above an instance to take you into it that demands you need "pre raid bis" to raid. Everyone seems to want fast and easy or nothing at all....i do however understand where you are coming from but i think people ruin there own experiences with these mindsets.

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This is the typical blizzard response you'd get for a post like this

 

"If you don't like other groups reserving items, take the time to make your own group without limitations on rolling"

 

bam, don't like it, make your own groups. 

Edited by boxjellyfish

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1 minute ago, boxjellyfish said:

This is the typical blizzard response you'd get for a post like this

 

"If you don't like other groups reserving items, take the time to make your own group without limitations on rolling"

 

bam, don't like it, make your own groups. 

Sort of missed the point but yes i am aware that forming my own groups would solve the problem for me personally, this post was more about the community as a whole but ty anyways for your reply.

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I see nothing wrong with reserves... people who generally reserve are like 90% bis already so from that stand point of view people that reserve look for low-average quality of bodies to fill up a raid (to set it in motion sooner) and provide extra fire power to finish the run faster (saving every1 elses time). In that regard reserving is sort of payment for A) hosting a run and managing it B) carrying less geared/skilled people into atleast partial gearing. 

With that being said I only respect reserves from nearly top geared people that bring their friends as a core to make a run smooth and steady no matter how shitty pugs join. If I see fresh 60 mongoloids reserving mounts in zg I die a lil inside. 

Also I dont mind tanks reserving orbs in strat live... finding a leveling tank or fresh 60 to run it is time consuming... might as well get a full tier 2 tank. This way they dont have to respec to farm some gold... 

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1 minute ago, Morathe said:

I see nothing wrong with reserves... people who generally reserve are like 90% bis already so from that stand point of view people that reserve look for low-average quality of bodies to fill up a raid (to set it in motion sooner) and provide extra fire power to finish the run faster (saving every1 elses time). In that regard reserving is sort of payment for A) hosting a run and managing it B) carrying less geared/skilled people into atleast partial gearing. 

With that being said I only respect reserves from nearly top geared people that bring their friends as a core to make a run smooth and steady no matter how shitty pugs join. If I see fresh 60 mongoloids reserving mounts in zg I die a lil inside. 

Also I dont mind tanks reserving orbs in strat live... finding a leveling tank or fresh 60 to run it is time consuming... might as well get a full tier 2 tank. This way they dont have to respec to farm some gold... 

i couldn't disagree with this logic more. This is exactly the kind of mindset that i never understand. If the people running it are so amazing and geared shouldn't they be able to run it without taking less geared players? Bottom line if you require somebody in your run, regardless of their skill or gear, if that person is NEEDED to complete the run then they should have the same chance as anyone else to roll on gear. Furthermore the argument could be made that the less geared players need the loot more than the 90% bis players do. If you are 90% "pre raid" bis then you can already raid just fine. Again though...this is just my personal opinion. As for tanks reserving orbs to do runs i think it's also pretty selfish. I get why people do it, because tanks are hard to find but i still think it's lame that people need to get soecial rewards when the whole group is required to reach the objective. You can't finish a dungeon without a tank sure, but you can't do it without dps or healers either....just because tanks are more rare does not mean they are more vital.

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reserving is a dick move, but only a few classes can really do this. if you see a rogue reserving something, its very easy to fill your own group not reserving anything. so dont just complain, but let them see how easy it is to drain their players.

but well, if a tank reserves an item, he possibly is in advantage.

what i hate the most about reserving items: on retail vanilla, this happened pretty much never in non-raid dungeons. so it reminds you youre on a private server

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1 minute ago, Revo said:

reserving is a dick move, but only a few classes can really do this. if you see a rogue reserving something, its very easy to fill your own group not reserving anything. so dont just complain, but let them see how easy it is to drain their players.

but well, if a tank reserves an item, he possibly is in advantage.

what i hate the most about reserving items: on retail vanilla, this happened pretty much never in non-raid dungeons. so it reminds you youre on a private server

on elysium pvp it is literally 9 out of 10 runs....sucks.

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Reserve runs are good and bad in my opinion. They're good for people who have ran that instance way too many times to be passed up on the item again and if you don't want to join the run, then don't. However most of them are just people who are going there the first time and want to reserve it. I think the worst is when it's rogues that do this. People who are literally a dime a dozen. If you're a healer or a tank and need to reserve something to justify going, so be it. Just don't do it as a role, or class that you can literally replace in five seconds.

Although it is quite annoying as I play a rogue and literally 95% of the UBRS runs at least on Alliance have Dal'rend's on reserve. Be it mainhand (most common) or offhand and some groups even go as far as to reserve both.

At the end of the day, I have nothing against reserving items in runs. I'm more annoyed at just how many groups do it and it's always the item EVERYONE wants. BRD Emp Runs? Oh Ironfoe is reserved, or Hand of Justice. UBRS? Any weapon off Rend is reserved, if the group feels like going to Drakkisath, flask reserved also.

Do ultimately feel the worst for the poor priests pretty much held at gunpoint by greedy tanks regarding Living. Since more and more tanks are demanding every single orb to tank the instance. So priests who have to farm the damn place for their robe pattern are going to be doing a considerable amount of a dungeon where the only thing encouraging anyone to run it outside of a bis item is on reserve. Fun times. 

Edited by Twilight Sparkle

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1 minute ago, Twilight Sparkle said:

Reserve runs are good and bad in my opinion. They're good for people who have ran that instance way too many times to be passed up on the item again and if you don't want to join the run, then don't.

Although it is quite annoying as I play a rogue and literally 95% of the UBRS runs at least on Alliance have Dal'rend's on reserve. Be it mainhand (most common) or offhand and some groups even go as far as to reserve both.

At the end of the day, I have nothing against reserving items in runs. I'm more annoyed at just how many groups do it and it's always the item EVERYONE wants. BRD Emp Runs? Oh Ironfoe is reserved, or Hand of Justice. UBRS? Any weapon off Rend is reserved, if the group feels like going to Drakkisath, flask reserved also.

Do ultimately feel the worst for the poor priests pretty much held at gunpoint by greedy tanks regarding Living. Since more and more tanks are demanding every single orb to tank the instance. So priests who have to farm the damn place for their robe pattern are going to be doing a considerable amount of a dungeon where the only thing encouraging anyone to run it outside of a bis item is on reserve. Fun times. 

I feel as though there has to be something we can do as a community to make this occur less often. i personally call people out in chat when i see them spamming for a reserve run and have actually noticed an effect. More than once under enough pressure they cave and say no reserve...still it's no fun being the annoying person in chat pestering folks trying to  get a run together. Still i feel like we as a playerbase get to decide what goes and what doesn't. Will it stop 100% of the runs from being reserve runs, no, but it may dampen the amount. Food for thought.

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What's your opinion on reserving things in raids? Raids takes a lot of time to organize and can be stressful to run, should they not be rewarded for their time/effort?

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Just now, mortisxamor said:

I feel as though there has to be something we can do as a community to make this occur less often. i personally call people out in chat when i see them spamming for a reserve run and have actually noticed an effect. More than once under enough pressure they cave and say no reserve...still it's no fun being the annoying person in chat pestering folks trying to  get a run together. Still i feel like we as a playerbase get to decide what goes and what doesn't. Will it stop 100% of the runs from being reserve runs, no, but it may dampen the amount. Food for thought.

I had to add it in to my other post and I bolded it but I'll repost it here. I don't find anything wrong with it when it's healers or tanks because often times a lot of them are actually providing an important job to the group. I.E they are incredibly hard to find and it's better to see the damn instance than spam for two hours.

 

However when it's rogues and hunters (mostly rogues, shocker) reserving things and always the sole item making that instance even ran then I do get annoyed at this. If you're a tank (and there's a paladin tank who's actually really good in my guild who does this) that wants to reserve Ironfoe, then fine because it's primarily for tanks and you're actually contributing a big part to the group. Though if a rogue was reserving Ironfoe, I would hope that the fact nobody will run it is hint enough yet it apparently isn't.

 

End of the day though, jackasses will do what they want. Rogues will insist on reserving things like HoJ, Dal'rend, Cape of the Black Baron when they make the run. I could probably see something if you were the one with the key vs paying a fee to open the door on reserving something. Though most rogues don't have a key.

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1 minute ago, Zyfire said:

What's your opinion on reserving things in raids? Raids takes a lot of time to organize and can be stressful to run, should they not be rewarded for their time/effort?

My feelings are always the same...reserved runs are selfish and i would avoid them completely. If a guild needs pugs to finish their raid why shouldn't the pugs have an equal chance at gear as anyone else? 

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13 minutes ago, Zyfire said:

What's your opinion on reserving things in raids? Raids takes a lot of time to organize and can be stressful to run, should they not be rewarded for their time/effort?

Good luck filling a raid when you reserve something since you risk alienating an entire class or role. You can sometimes get lucky with instances and reserve Cape of the Black Baron just fine and do it with casters. If you reserve Striker's Mark, good luck having no rogues or warriors that run if they think it'll drop. Likewise, good luck finding people in a PuG who either have that item already, or don't want it this early into the server.

 

Though if you decide to reserve a tier piece, or any of the actual items at the end you might have a lot of people not even remotely interested. More so when AV comes and the raid drops actual loot like Perdition's, CHT, Brutality Blade, OEB, Leaf/Eye. If you want to "reserve" an item out of a raid the best way to do that is stockpile gold and make a GDKP run and pray it fills. This becomes most effective after AQ release because most guilds don't allocate raid days to MC and their members just end up pugging it for either fun, or to try and get their items after a year. I think on Warsong (Feenix) a majority of the raids held were GDKP runs that tended to be filled with pretty geared people just out for gold and GDKP runs are a really nice money maker when people have gold to drop. Saw a Perdition's in a pug MC there go for 6k. Payout of 150g to each individual off that one item alone.

 

For example I saw a pug MC trying to fill last week and the leader had all the BoEs on reserve. I added him to friends to keep tabs and I don't think his run actually filled.

Edited by Twilight Sparkle

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34 minutes ago, Twilight Sparkle said:

I think the worst is when it's rogues that do this. People who are literally a dime a dozen. If you're a healer or a tank and need to reserve something to justify going, so be it. Just don't do it as a role, or class that you can literally replace in five seconds.

the irony with this is as a healer or tank you have the ability to do more runs, and you are one of the main ones responsible for the speed and efficiency of the runs you're doing. as a rogue, since im easily replaced, it takes twice as long to find a group or make your own so i'd understand their desire to reserve something more. 

side note: i find that 'im leading the group so ill reserve some items' argument that people use hilarious too. it takes a full group to run an instance, and being the one shouting in chat rather than being afk while the group fills doesn't take any effort, and you aren't actually 'leading' an instance because we all know every pull like the back of our hands now. 

all this is to say i realize nothing will change, the instant gratification that plagues mmo's now is the reason the genre is dying imo which is a real shame. grinding instances was never THAT fun, but it was an integral part of the experience. now you rush to 60 in a week, grind preraid bis by reserving items over the weekend and are bored for 7 months between content releases

Edited by kastle

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34 minutes ago, kastle said:

the irony with this is as a healer or tank you have the ability to do more runs, and you are one of the main ones responsible for the speed and efficiency of the runs you're doing. as a rogue, since im easily replaced, it takes twice as long to find a group or make your own so i'd understand their desire to reserve something more. 

side note: i find that 'im leading the group so ill reserve some items' argument that people use hilarious too. it takes a full group to run an instance, and being the one shouting in chat rather than being afk while the group fills doesn't take any effort, and you aren't actually 'leading' an instance because we all know every pull like the back of our hands now. 

all this is to say i realize nothing will change, the instant gratification that plagues mmo's now is the reason the genre is dying imo which is a real shame. grinding instances was never THAT fun, but it was an integral part of the experience. now you rush to 60 in a week, grind preraid bis by reserving items over the weekend and are bored for 7 months between content releases

You do have the ability as a tank or healer to do more runs but reservation as far as I see it should only be if you're filling some massive shoes. I.E tanking or healing, especially since you also are at a bigger level of stress for the instance going well. DPS just kind of stand there and look pretty.

Put it this way, when you're building a scepter for AQ, odds are one of the first people to get the Black Beetle in your guild is going to be your guild leader regardless of their class. In fact if you could build 5 scepters, odds are they'd all be on leadership or very important people in the guild like your main tank. You'll be going a LONG way before you're giving it to some random run of the mill mage in your guild that does absolutely nothing.

Reservation on a DPS, let alone one that isn't really integral to the completion would be like that mage saying "I get the first scepter for my beetle!"

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probably said already but  i don't want to read through all replies zzzz

 

If an item has a low drop rate (Felstriker, Dal'rend(s), Ironfoe,)  I think the person who puts the effort to form the group and finds someone with a key (if needed of course) should be able to reserve an item of whatever they want. If you need the item that's reserved, then don't go, others will fill your spot. Not everyone is going after the exact same loot. Besides, there are groups at nearly every time of the day doing dungeons; you're bound to find a group where the item you need isn't reserved. And, if you need that item that all the parties reserve, make your own group and reserve it for yourself.

 

And to the person who was saying that reserving items """ruins""" the fun from dungeons.. uh??? hello? It's not fun to do like 20-30 UBRS runs for your Dal'rends or like 100 for your Ironfoe/Felstriker only to lose them to some random. 

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