Yet another Epic BoE situation

[J.AllenBrack 1]

Boots of Avoidance http://db.vanillagaming.org/?item=14549#dropped-by

I was tanking a Maraudon dungeon run, and these boots dropped and I was pretty excited (being a tank, and planning on tanking late game raids), and I asked the group If it was cool if I needed on the boots, seeing as how It was actually one of the best boots to have pre-raiding, and I was the only Warrior in the group. The Thornstone Sledgehammer literally just dropped the mob before the mob that dropped the boots, and we all unanimously greeded on the Blue BoE, so I assumed this group was sensible and understood Need before Greed. But when the boots dropped, I asked politely if i could need the boots to actually use (and equip on the spot), but the group suddenly became irate saying that the boots were only good to sell and that I'd "Outlevel them" and that everyone should need because it was "vauable" regardless of if they could use it or were only going to AH it (If they were worth a lot, that's because they are useful at 60/raiding so that " you'll outlevel it" comment was one of the dumbest things i'd ever heard).

I ended up losing the roll to a rogue, who I politely whispered the rogue if I could get the boots off of him and I'd even be willing to pay, since I really could use them, and it was (in my mind, not fair that we should all need just because it was a BoE). But he replied "For alot of gold yes", and I was pretty upset and decided I no longer wanted to finish the run with this group and wanted to leave. I helped everyone clear to Celebras and explained to everyone how to get the scepter and then left the group. 

Am I wrong in believing that it was unjust to Need on a BoE someone could actually use just to AH? I mean if it was a Blue BoE I needed, I can't imagine this would be a problem, but it was an Epic so I'm guessing everyone's greed just got the better of them. If something different like Stockade Pauldrons or Gut Ripper, or Krol Blade dropped and we had someone who could actually use the items, is it still acceptable for everyone to Need on the item, just out of pure greed? I'm pretty sure that this constitutes Ninjaing, in this situation, am I wrong? (I'll post Screenshots if anyone wants evidence)

[Ironsides 35]

a druid outrolled me for helm of narv on my hunter. no one cares, you'll upgrade it eventually. its just pixels

[TTL 6]

Your group should have needed on the BoE blue too.
You can't guarantee the person claiming they will use it for off spec or main spec will actually use it. Some just like those who would gladly ninja if everyone hit greed would also lie about their motives for expensive items.

Don't expect the need before greed process to work with expensive items, everyone should just need them and if you want them then buy them. Everyone should know this by now, I wouldn't call it a ninja unless the person waited for everyone else to greed on the item first.

[J.AllenBrack 1]

Yea, I've come to learn that this server is full of greedy fucks, not everyone is like this, I've run with a lot of good people. But from now on,when I'm tanking and group lead I'm running dungeons with ML, no question. Pretty much no other choice.

[Rapteg 0]

You are just upset that you didn't get what you wanted to fair rolls and are venting at this point. There is no reason within your arguing 

[Oakenlix 79]

4 hours ago, J.AllenBrack said:

Am I wrong in believing that it was unjust to Need on a BoE someone could actually use just to AH?

You are wrong, and several times you mention "actually use" and "just to sell" dismissing the use of the item by converting it to gold as something less important, the truth is - this item indirectly is just as big of a gear upgrade for others as it is for you, and you're just upset you lost the roll. Which is understandable, but there's no reason to be mad at other group members. They deserved the chance to get this drop same as you.

 

Edited February 28, 2017 by Oakenlix

[mytchi3 1]

No reason to argue with him since he doesnt get the concept of bop and boe and how boe is same upgrade for everyone who wins it (rare expensive ones, not 4g greens and blues which you sell to vendor since its value on AH is its de value often lower than vendor value)

Edited February 28, 2017 by mytchi3

[J.AllenBrack 1]

Only its not the same upgrade, a person who can use and equip the item on the spot and will use the item in the very dungeon run they got the item on and well into 60 raiding gets vastly more use out of the item than someone who will sell the item after a period of time ( a day, a week, etc), and use the gold after a period of time ( a gold, a week, a month) to buy their bis gear AT 60. And to reiterate AT 60 not at 50 like I was, and the previous argument of buying the bloodvine set on the AH is null because I'm on Elysium PvP, ZG isn't out yet.

I get immediate use out of the item and it will last me until I replace it with a raiding epic boots, some can argue that 2% dodge is more valuable than tier since there are diminishing returns on armor, while 2% dodge is always going to be useful. But you're just a pleb dps I'd imagine who has no idea what Bis gear means for a tank. That's my reasoning, an item I can equip and use indefinitely vs. outright greed/money that will eventually be used at 60 for an item. The only real solution is to identify and completely ignore retarded shitstains like you ingame.

This is a forum, what anyone says on here means nothing, try saying making your argument in a party or raid ingame, you'll get shit on by pretty much everyone. So go ahead and hide behind the forum anonymity, your point doesn't mean shit in game.

[J.AllenBrack 1]

And also mytchi3 and Rapteg why are you commenting on this thread instead of replying to my argument on 

?

Oh because you'd rather come here where there are less people arguing against your point and would rather choose the easy way of claiming "there is no reason within your arguing" with no context or explaining how there is no reasoning. Also a coherent sentence would be "there is no reason within your argument". You don't even know how to properly type, how is anyone supposed to take your shitty argument seriously? Reply with a coherent point or don't bother letting garbage dribble through your mouth.

Edited February 28, 2017 by J.AllenBrack

[Oakenlix 79]

8 hours ago, J.AllenBrack said:

Only its not the same upgrade, a person who can use and equip the item on the spot and will use the item in the very dungeon run they got the item on and well into 60 raiding gets vastly more use out of the item than someone who will sell the item after a period of time ( a day, a week, etc), and use the gold after a period of time ( a gold, a week, a month) to buy their bis gear AT 60.

Ok, so why don't you just buy these boots from AH?

[Xylon666Darkstar 4]

Should just buy the boots off the AH if you want them so badly.

[Jdude2021 1]

1 hour ago, Oakenlix said:

Ok, so why don't you just buy these boots from AH?

So what you are saying is just because other people can't make money means they should take equipment from people that truly NEED, not want, and could use for a very long time? Sounds pretty greedy to me lol.

 

Why doesn't "Insert Whoever Here" just go spend their time gathering herbs or mining to earn the money they would get from selling said BoE? I think you guys are misunderstanding the value of time vs the value of Drops..

 

Why should he go buy the boots when he might be saving for a mount or something in the future.. Your logic, as well as most people's is retarded when it comes to the BOE vs BoP aspect..

 

I'm a beta WoW vet all the way to the release of WOTLK. Back in the day THE UNDERSTOOD AGREEMENT was the exact opposite of what you are trying to advocate lol. People these days are just greedy as hell and their time is more valuable than anyone else's.. It's funny how you guys also want to take away the gear from the KEY ROLES of your dungeon...

 

I'm sorry Allen but these days people are just dicks and will try to justify every reason of why greeding on BoEs is acceptable...when back in the day, you woulda been shunned and would have never been invited into and End Game raiding guild. All I can say to avoid this is to find yourself a good guild that does a lot of instances.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Jman420
Cuz people are tardy and need more Explainy

[Oakenlix 79]

7 minutes ago, Jman420 said:

So what you are saying is just because other people can't make money means they should take equipment from people that truly NEED, not want, and could use for a very long time? Sounds pretty greedy to me lol.

What I'm saying is that winning the roll would save him exactly the same amount of money (that he wouldn't have to spend on AH) as it would bring to the rogue that will sell it, and the value of the drop is equal for both of them. So gtfo with this "truly NEED, not want" bullshit. What is that even supposed to mean? He will starve to death without those boots or something?

9 minutes ago, Jman420 said:

Why doesn't "Insert Whoever Here" just go spend their time gathering herbs or mining to earn the money they would get from selling said BoE? I think you guys are misunderstanding the value of time vs the value of Drops..

Why can't the tank go and spend his time "gathering herbs or mining to earn the money" to buy these boots from AH? Because they both chose to do the dungeon and both have the rights to get value out of it.

12 minutes ago, Jman420 said:

Why should he go buy the boots when he might be saving for a mount or something in the future.

Because he lost the roll. 

 

Quit typing nonsense already and try to think about this matter for a minute, jesus.

 

[Aladya 0]

I don't get the topics about "need on boe" or "ninja items". There are no game rules for these situations. If you run dgs with your friends or people you know, you can set rules at the start. But with strangers, you have the choice. Globally if it's a boe item of value, need on it. If it's someone who needs to sell it for money or needs to equip it as an upgrade, it's the same. Crying afterwards won't change anything.

[smokeit 26]

13 minutes ago, Oakenlix said:

What I'm saying is that winning the roll would save him exactly the same amount of money (that he wouldn't have to spend on AH) as it would bring to the rogue that will sell it, and the value of the drop is equal for both of them. So gtfo with this "truly NEED, not want" bullshit. What is that even supposed to mean? He will starve to death without those boots or something?

Will that rogue will starve to death without that gold? also, rogues can farm gold so fuckin easy..

Anyways, glad I got a filled guild who does plenty of runs the way it is supposed to be; need if you need an item, greed if you want to sell it, pass if you just dont want.

[Oakenlix 79]

16 minutes ago, smokeit said:

Will that rogue will starve to death without that gold? also, rogues can farm gold so fuckin easy..

No, he won't, and neither will the tank, so they roll and whoever wins gets the drop. Makes sense? 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Oakenlix

[Rapteg 0]

1 час назад, Jman420 сказал:

So what you are saying is just because other people can't make money means they should take equipment from people that truly NEED, not want, and could use for a very long time? Sounds pretty greedy to me lol.

 

 

No, it means that if staff of jordan drops this cheap rogue can also roll it, sell and buy these much needed boots, instead of passing on it and still being cheap towards a much needed item.

Honestly, if oyu don't have time to farm gold for a BiS BoE as a rogue and instead run dungeons and pray for it to drop... you simply put your time into wrong activity

[dwarfhunter 4]

Rule  is everyone needs BOEs unless agreed on before thats how wow has been for 12 years

[J.AllenBrack 1]

 

13 hours ago, Jman420 said:

I'm a beta WoW vet all the way to the release of WOTLK. Back in the day THE UNDERSTOOD AGREEMENT was the exact opposite of what you are trying to advocate lol. People these days are just greedy as hell and their time is more valuable than anyone else's.. It's funny how you guys also want to take away the gear from the KEY ROLES of your dungeon...

You're absolutely right, the community USED to understand this. I'm pretty certain that most vet's from vanilla/beta have actually moved on from the game, and the people who play on private vanilla servers are mostly a younger generation of people who missed the boat and never experienced live vanilla. Most of the people who think its fine to Need on every BoE are most definitely newer players (non-vanilla/tbc or from retail) because they think that they are somehow entitled to that gold and that it should rightfully belong to them, which is probably how it is in newer mmo's, they don't realize that sort of mentality doesn't translate well into a 10+ year old game.

In vanilla wow gameplay is user and community driven and where when an item drops, it drops for a GROUP of players and they themselves must decide who gets the item (usually having a vote, as a roll, in who should democratically get an item, be it themselves or another player if they deem that they are more deserving), not everyone will get their own personal item. This is an MMORPG not a single player game, you play with other real people and if you're a toxic or greedy player in a community it doesn't go unnoticed.

You may say that "this is how its always been on my server since vanilla" but you cant really show any evidence to prove that, while the loot rules of Need before Greed were made (though vaguely) by Blizzard and the community deemed what was acceptable and not acceptable. Going into MC and having the loot set at Need before Greed, and someone in the raid rolling NEED on a BoE (for example Blood's of the Mountain, or one of the BoE blues off Ragnaros) when they couldn't use the item or only planned on selling the item, was a kickable offense, and was and is considered to be unacceptable behavior. Go to allakazam wow and find a post that says otherwise, the truth is that you can't find anything from vanilla to back the claim that GREED is indeed ≥ Need. 

[J.AllenBrack 1]

Also Oakenlix (aka Greedy Cunt) you just put a massive hole through your own argument: 

On 2/28/2017 at 1:50 AM, Oakenlix said:

"the truth is - this item indirectly is just as big of a gear upgrade for others as it is for you"

 

Good phrasing, INDIRECTLY, is exactly that, if it is indirectly beneficial to someone as opposed to being directly beneficial, wouldn't any competent person with a grasp of the English language understand that directly beneficial is greater that being indirectly beneficial? Directly>indirectly? Again, your words not mine.

[J.AllenBrack 1]

3 hours ago, dwarfhunter said:

Rule  is everyone needs BOEs unless agreed on before thats how wow has been for 12 years

Do you have any evidence to support this 12+ year rule?

[Haestingas 30]

I played retail from week 2 of release through aq, and in pubs it was fairly common for people to let people grab an item they would equip on the spot over themselves selling it in the event of a blue/purple boe dropping. The key word I used was "let". Many back then were super into the game and community and just happy to be there playing this insanely fun game that was literally blowing apart our minds with how fun it was. This led to many players being generous because they weren’t there to min max, they weren’t there for that one prebis upgrade, they were there primarily to kill a mother fucking dragon with strangers that shared our love of the fantasy genre.

 

While that was the prevailing mindset at the time, it also wasn’t frowned upon for others to need as well on valuable boe for them to sell, or give to a friend/guildy. The person who may have equiped that item would generally be disappointed, but generally would get over it. The fact of the matter is in the current private server mindset is very different from the retail vanilla mindset, where people here are more about getting their pre-bis and progressing their character, and less just for the content itself because for the most part we have cleared these instances 50+ times each so a lot of the magic is lost. This has led to a flipping of how valuable BoE’s are dealt with, with the most common scenario being many rolling need so they can sell, and the minority being willing to pass to someone who will equip.

 

This mindset is further reinforced due to having played this game for so long, almost everyone has had a very bad experience with being generous. A personal example of mine was when I first hit 60 on Nost, during a strat UD run a Skull Flame Shield dropped which was an obvious huge upgrade for our tank. He said he would equip the item and could we please pass so he can have this upgrade. We all passed and he received the shield, then refused to equip the item, hearthed out, and sold the damn shield on the AH. This kind of story is not rare these days, and is one of the driving forces behind it being common for people to need on BoE’s.

[Oakenlix 79]

43 minutes ago, J.AllenBrack said:

Also Oakenlix (aka Greedy Cunt) you just put a massive hole through your own argument: 

Good phrasing, INDIRECTLY, is exactly that, if it is indirectly beneficial to someone as opposed to being directly beneficial, wouldn't any competent person with a grasp of the English language understand that directly beneficial is greater that being indirectly beneficial? Directly>indirectly? Again, your words not mine.

How is that a hole? What difference does it make if you have to spend an extra day to get your upgrade? It's absolutely insignificant considering the worth of rare BoE items. Why should direct upgrade be so much more prioritized than indirect one? 

[mytchi3 1]

We could close all these reserve and ninja boe treads by saying you guys go have fun in your no reserve boe going on need greed while the rest of us farm prebis asap so we dont have to meet you scrubs anymore and have fun in raids and pvp while you will be running your 100th ubrs run still not having dalrends.

[J.AllenBrack 1]

DIRECT vs indirect. Just look up the definition of the two words you stupid cunt, stop being mad that I'm using your won words against you. "What hole? What hole? There's no hole?" I just repeated it like 4 times you daft cunt. Is that rogue going to spend that gold right away? No probably not. They are going have to level to like 55 to be able to buy and equip some pre-raid bis like the Devilsaur set (which is also just propagating that shitty Devilsaur monopoly, the set is up to like over 400g now that they are inflating the prices, which the Boots are not even going to sell for).

So a 49 Warrior can equip the item right then and there and get use out of them then and there in the dungeon and use them outside of the dungeon while leveling, until they find better leveling boots from a BoP or such, and THEN still keep the item for tanking in raids. The rogue gets gold which will help him buy some BoE.... IF he manages to sell it for a good prices, IF whatever he wants to buy is being sold or on the AH, IF he can afford it, IF he meets the level requirement to equip the item. Those are just 4 of many IF's, what's stopping me from doing any of these if I have the Boots? None, I can use them immediately and DIRECTLY benefit from having the item, not from INDIRECTLY having gold to eventually buy an item.

If you can't equip an item or it isn't an upgrade, or if you aren't the require level to equip an item and someone ELSE is, then you have no claim to that item and should not need. Now that is how BoP's work now and since the beginning of the goddamn game. How are BoE's any different just because they can be turned into gold, which and be turned into something else. You don't have equal or more claim to an item that someone who can use and rightfully needs the item, therefore you have no reason to need roll against said person.

 

So once again shut the fuck up unless you have a real point, or go play outside like a good boy.

Edited March 2, 2017 by J.AllenBrack